Okay, I think I got this Islam thing figured out.

[chomerics]

That's where you're thinking is short sighted and limited in scope. It isn't just about Iraq. It never was. It's about establishing a foothold right in the center of a region where the terrorist enemy breeds. You call Bush ignorant and stubborn. I call him determined and bold. His strategy may be the only one that can truly defeat Islamic terrorism in the long term.

No, you can not defeat it (terrorism) with the military unless you eradicate every Muslim off the face of this planet. For every terrorist we kill, we are creating three more for being there. Again, you like Mike above should really read the book I linked. It will open up your eyes to what is really going on in this war on terror. We did exactly what Bin Laden prophecized we would, and it gave him more credibility then if he had been Muhammad himself.

[jrockster21]

There are some patriotic liberals left, but they are a minority on the far left. Which is why many mainstream democrats have now become Republicans. I used to be one myself when I was young..

This is my biggest pet peeve with righties. We aren't patriotic if we don't fall in line and blindly support whatever the administration does. God forbid we have a dissenting opinion on the subject! You know what they call it when the government dictates what everyone thinks and if you don't think the same way you get punished? Do ya?

What the **** is the purpose of all the freedoms that we've obtained if we don't have the freedom to question our own presidents? I contend that its patriotic to challenge our leaders...in fact chomerics and most liberals have our country in mind just as much as you do; we just happen to see things more clearly because we aren't blinded by hatred.

[Sarge]

Gee Sarge, more hate filled racist crap from the National Review :doh: Do you actually believe this sensationlaistic opiniated stuff devoid of facts, or do you post it just to get a rise out of everyone?

Is it me, or does every conservative believe he knows how everyone else thinks? Seriously, how many times have you heard Rush say "liberals" think this or that? the problem is that people actually believe this rhetorical sensationalistic crap.

Actually , Victor Hanson is a classical historian. He might actually know more than you, at least until read a couple of articles

http://www.fresnostate.net/Classics/Biographies.htm

Victor Davis Hanson

Victor Davis Hanson was educated at the University of California, Santa Cruz (BA 1975), the American School of Classical Studies (1978-9), and received his Ph.D in Classics from Stanford University in Classics in 1980. He farmed full-time for five years before returning to academia part-time in 1984 to initiate a Classics program at California State University, Fresno. Currently, he is Professor of Classics and Coordinator of the Classical Studies Program.

In 1991 he was awarded an American Philological Association Excellence in Teaching Award, which is given yearly to the country’s top undergraduate teachers of Greek and Latin. He was a National Endowment for the Humanities fellow at the Center for Advanced Studies in the Behavioral Sciences, Stanford, CA, and a visiting professor of Classics at Stanford University during the years 1991-3. He will be visiting professor of military history at the US Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland during the 2002-3 academic year.

He has written articles, editorials and reviews for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and International Herald Tribune, American Heritage, City journal, American Spectator, Policy Review, The Wilson Quarterly, The Weekly Standard, and Washington Times, and has been interviewed on nine occasions on National Public Radio, and appeared with David Gergen on the Jim Lehr PBS Newshour. He writes a column bi-weekly about contemporary culture and military history for National Review Online.

He is also the author of some sixty articles, book reviews, and newspaper editorials on Greek, agrarian, and military history, and contemporary culture. He has written or edited eleven books, including "Warfare and Agriculture in Classical Greece" (1983, paperback ed. University of California Press 1998), "The Western Way of War" (Alfred Knopf 1989, seven book club, paperback, and foreign editions and translations, 2nd paperback ed. UC Press 2000), Hoplites. "The Ancient Greek Battle Experience" (Routledge 1991; paperback ed. 1992), "The Other Greeks. The Family Farm and the Agrarian Roots of Western Civilization" (The Free Press 1995, 2nd. paperback ed. UC Press 2000), "Fields Without Dreams. Defending the Agrarian Idea" (The Free Press 1996; paperback ed. Touchstone 1997), "The Soul of Battle" (a history book club, book-of-the-month selection; The Free Press 1999, paperback ed. Anchor/ Vintage 2000).

He co-authored with John Heath "Who Killed Homer? The Demise of Classical Education and the Recovery of Greek Wisdom" (The Free Press 1998, paperback Encounter Press, 2000; Readers Subscription Book Club Selection), and, with Bruce Thornton, and John Heath, "Bonfire of the Humanities. Rescuing the Classics in an Impoverished Age" (ISI Books 2001).

His "The Wars of the Ancient Greeks" (Cassell 1999; paperback ed. 2001; History Book Club Selection) was the first volume to appear in John Keegan's edited multi-volume history of warfare. "The Land Was Everything. Letters From an American Farmer" (forward by Jane Smiley, Free Press 2000) appeared in spring 2000. His "Carnage and Culture. Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power" appeared from Doubleday in August 2001; currently he is completing "Ripples of Battle," to appear from Doubleday in spring 2003.

He currently lives and works with his wife and three children on their sixty-acre tree and vine farm near Selma, California, where he was born in 1953.

[chomerics]

Actually , Victor Hanson is a classical historian. He might actually know more than you, at least until read a couple of articles

http://www.fresnostate.net/Classics/Biographies.htm

Victor Davis Hanson

Victor Davis Hanson was educated at the University of California, Santa Cruz (BA 1975), the American School of Classical Studies (1978-9), and received his Ph.D in Classics from Stanford University in Classics in 1980. He farmed full-time for five years before returning to academia part-time in 1984 to initiate a Classics program at California State University, Fresno. Currently, he is Professor of Classics and Coordinator of the Classical Studies Program.

In 1991 he was awarded an American Philological Association Excellence in Teaching Award, which is given yearly to the country’s top undergraduate teachers of Greek and Latin. He was a National Endowment for the Humanities fellow at the Center for Advanced Studies in the Behavioral Sciences, Stanford, CA, and a visiting professor of Classics at Stanford University during the years 1991-3. He will be visiting professor of military history at the US Naval Academy, Annapolis, Maryland during the 2002-3 academic year.

He has written articles, editorials and reviews for the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and International Herald Tribune, American Heritage, City journal, American Spectator, Policy Review, The Wilson Quarterly, The Weekly Standard, and Washington Times, and has been interviewed on nine occasions on National Public Radio, and appeared with David Gergen on the Jim Lehr PBS Newshour. He writes a column bi-weekly about contemporary culture and military history for National Review Online.

He is also the author of some sixty articles, book reviews, and newspaper editorials on Greek, agrarian, and military history, and contemporary culture. He has written or edited eleven books, including "Warfare and Agriculture in Classical Greece" (1983, paperback ed. University of California Press 1998), "The Western Way of War" (Alfred Knopf 1989, seven book club, paperback, and foreign editions and translations, 2nd paperback ed. UC Press 2000), Hoplites. "The Ancient Greek Battle Experience" (Routledge 1991; paperback ed. 1992), "The Other Greeks. The Family Farm and the Agrarian Roots of Western Civilization" (The Free Press 1995, 2nd. paperback ed. UC Press 2000), "Fields Without Dreams. Defending the Agrarian Idea" (The Free Press 1996; paperback ed. Touchstone 1997), "The Soul of Battle" (a history book club, book-of-the-month selection; The Free Press 1999, paperback ed. Anchor/ Vintage 2000).

He co-authored with John Heath "Who Killed Homer? The Demise of Classical Education and the Recovery of Greek Wisdom" (The Free Press 1998, paperback Encounter Press, 2000; Readers Subscription Book Club Selection), and, with Bruce Thornton, and John Heath, "Bonfire of the Humanities. Rescuing the Classics in an Impoverished Age" (ISI Books 2001).

His "The Wars of the Ancient Greeks" (Cassell 1999; paperback ed. 2001; History Book Club Selection) was the first volume to appear in John Keegan's edited multi-volume history of warfare. "The Land Was Everything. Letters From an American Farmer" (forward by Jane Smiley, Free Press 2000) appeared in spring 2000. His "Carnage and Culture. Landmark Battles in the Rise of Western Power" appeared from Doubleday in August 2001; currently he is completing "Ripples of Battle," to appear from Doubleday in spring 2003.

He currently lives and works with his wife and three children on their sixty-acre tree and vine farm near Selma, California, where he was born in 1953.

Sarge, he is part of the republican noise machine. His articles lack a certain level of factual decorum and are meant to sensationalize the issue, while polarizing society. He is just another in numerous of well paid think tank employees who do absolutely nothing except push a radical right agenda. They are hacks in every sense of the word, and they deserve no more airtime then the lefties who write similar columns like Bush is the antichrist.

In other words, I really don't care how educated he is, or what his article has to say. It is nothing more then sensational racism meant to inflame a population and does more to polarize our nation the the terrorists could ever imagine. It is propaganda in its purest form, and the mere fact that he has a degree proves he has completely sold out any and all ethics he has in life.

it's easy to spot this type of sensationalistic crap, here, look at this sentence. . .

Meanwhile, Westerners far too rarely publicly denounce radical Islam for its sick, anti-Semitic, anti-female, anti-American, and anti-modernist rhetoric. Just imagine the liberal response if across the globe Christians had beheaded schoolgirls, taken over schoolhouses to kill students, and shot school teachers as we have witnessed radical Muslims doing these past few months.

Westerners rarely denounce radical islam? Really? Have you heard a westerner PROMOTE radical islam?

How about implying that people who are "liberal" would somehow be more up in arms if a christian in Iraq beheaded somebody? Again, completely ignorant, and blatently false. Unfortunately this passes as the press for people like yourself, this man is a disgrace to journalism no matter what his credentials are, and is an good example what is wrong with society.

[Sarge]

Westerners rarely denounce radical islam? Really? Have you heard a westerner PROMOTE radical islam?

How about implying that people who are "liberal" would somehow be more up in arms if a christian in Iraq beheaded somebody? Again, completely ignorant, and blatently false. Unfortunately this passes as the press for people like yourself, this man is a disgrace to journalism no matter what his credentials are, and is an good example what is wrong with society.

Are you going to make me go digging thru some of your more anti-Christian posts? You've been called out by numerous people here for doing exactly that.

As an example, one need only look as far as the rioting by muslms in Frnace as an example of press bias. The rioting has been going on for 10 nights now, but it took most of the press a week to say it was muslims who were actually doing the rioting, instead of "youths" or "immigrants".

[chomerics]

Are you going to make me go digging thru some of your more anti-Christian posts? You've been called out by numerous people here for doing exactly that.

Go right ahead Sarge, and I think you will have a hard time where I promote killing of christians. It is even ludicrous to insinuate it. I have anti-Catholic views which is part of Christianity. I have also stated where those views come from. If people want to call me out for it, then fine I have no problem with it. I do have a problem if you think I am 1/10th as hostile towards Christians as you are to Muslinms.

As an example, one need only look as far as the rioting by muslms in Frnace as an example of press bias. The rioting has been going on for 10 nights now, but it took most of the press a week to say it was muslims who were actually doing the rioting, instead of "youths" or "immigrants".

It is because of people like yourself who only view them as Muslims. Did you say all the "christian" rioters in NO, nope they were black. You ONLY use religion when it suits your purpose, and you are much better then that.

[BlueTalon]

How about implying that people who are "liberal" would somehow be more up in arms if a christian in Iraq beheaded somebody?

Many people who are "liberal" would be more up in arms about Christians in America picketing an abortion clinic than they would be about extremist Muslims in Iraq beheading someone.

[DjTj]

Many people who are "liberal" would be more up in arms about Christians in America picketing an abortion clinic than they would be about extremist Muslims in Iraq beheading someone.

and many people who are "conservative" would be more up in arms about a woman hanging out outside Bush's ranch for a few weeks than they would be about American soldiers photographed torturing prisoners.

I think this is perfectly rational on both sides. There's no need for liberals to get upset about Iraqi beheadings, because our military is taking care of that problem - hunting down the terrorists and bringing them to justice. There's also no need for conservatives to go crazy about the torture photos because our military tribunals have held hearings and administered proper punishment.

People rant about protests because that's what pretty much all you can do in response to protests ... the real problems are generally taken care of, so we civilians are left to ***** and moan about fake problems - and it's much easier to complain about a fake problem than it is to try to solve a real one.

[chomerics]

Many people who are "liberal" would be more up in arms about Christians in America picketing an abortion clinic than they would be about extremist Muslims in Iraq beheading someone.

Umm, how can you honestly say that a liberal would be more possed about a protester then a person getting their head chopped off??? You need to stop listening to the extreme right, or at least stop posting their rants, because "liberals" think nothing of the sort.

[[[ghost]]]

When the Muslims started saying "It's a religion of peace", we misunderstood.

It sounded like they were saying "peace", but it was the other word that

sounds the same, "piece."

So it's actually "A religion of Piece"

As in :

1- They want a PIECE of everyone.

2-They want their suicide bombers to blow up people into PIECES.

3-They only have a PIECE of truth - the other 99 % of their religion is a lie.

im muslim... and i've never even seen a bomb, let alone take a peice of me, stick it to a c4, and blow it up

[SkinsHokieFan]

Can this thread be closed already?

Thanks

[Crazyhorse1]

Dear Mike, Mad:

I regret to inform you that all of you past and present views have been thoroughly examined and have been found to be wrong; further, it is believed by our committee that all of your future views are wrong as well.

Therefore, falling upon me is the task of suggesting you begin believing the opposite of what you think in regard to all issues.

Thanking you in all dimensions for your cooperation.

Dean Crazyhorse1

[tlk2rn]

If any of you actually picked up and read the Koran you would wake up and realize that iit s not a religion of war. Heck if we wanted to get technical the entire Old Testament of the Bible is all about war and taking over land. Instead of watching the news listening to others why don't some of you do some of your own research and history lessons, you can be amazed what happens when the ignorant learns the truth :doh:

Yeah, land that was already theirs. If someone took your possesions would you just sit there and do nothing. God gave people warning after warning after warning but they would not listen. He already promised them what was theirs and the enemy did not move. So what would you have done. It is the same way today, someone comes to my house and takes my things especially while I am there, they have something pretty nice coming to them.

I dont doubt that islam is a religion of peace but, I am tired of people comparing other religions to Christianity. Why compare what is real to what is fake. Let God be true and every man a liar, Rom. 3:4. :point2sky