Okay, I think I got this Islam thing figured out.

[dfitzo53]

You're right. It's sort of ridiculous to talk about this on a sports site anyway.

Believe me, a hell of a lot more than sports gets discussed here.

[Mad Mike]

No, because you want to ban somebody who disagrees with you. Do you deny that you want to ban him??? You were the one who posted that fascist crap.

Hell, can you even debate a single topic? Do you agree that banning people based on their ideology IS fascist? No, you will just continue to ignore everything, bury your head in the sand, pop up once in a while say Saddam was behind 9-11 and think you're right. Maybe one day you will actually debate a topic, but instead, all you feeble and infantile rants prove is that you have absolutely no point. This is whay your argument has been reduced to . . . Hey everyone, don't believe him, believe a right wing fruitcake who has been wrong on every single point he has argued for in the past 5 years.

Man, I used to think people like you were a figment of the tin foil hat crowd, but unfortunately they were right. . . You should be real proud.

Enough of your lies. I have NEVER said Saddam was "behind 9/11".

What I have repeatedly said is that he may have been involved in some way that we cannot prove and given his track record and the FACT (go ahead, PROVE the bi-partizan commision was wrong) that he has had contact with Al Qaeda, it is in fact likely. I have clearly PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt that he supported many terrorist organizations, hated and threatened America, and pointed out the naivety of believing he was no threat. I cant help it if you are too biased and dense to understand the argument, but I'm pretty damn sick of your lies.

The fact that you have to LIE to try to minimalize my argument and make AD HOMINEM attacks based on those lies shows how bankrupt your position is.

Yeah, and I'm a fascist because I express my opinion that I don't think his brand of anti american hate speech is appropriate here.

BTW. I'm still waiting for you do denounce DU as Fascist.

[Mad Mike]

Oh yea, the words of Saddam proves that he was a threat, man, how much Kool Aid have you actually had this week?

One more time Saddam was a SECULAR leader. You do know what that means don't you? It means that he didn't have a state sponsered religion!!!

Do you have ANY inclinging WHY he ran a secular country? Here, why don't you do some reading of actual FACTS, not propaganda, you do know the difference don't you?

Gee Mike, why do you think he was the ONLY country in the Middle East that DIDN'T rule according to Islamic Law??? Oh yea, I almost forgot because he LOVED Islam:doh: :hammer:

Continue reading. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

So please is this why we invaded Iraq Mike, because Saddam doesn't like us? Is that your point? Oh wait, you HAVE NO POINT!!!!

Do you want more evidence that Saddam was a secular leader?

How about from the CATO Institute???

source

Well, I guess that thought's right out the window huh. . .Secular libralism HA, what a freakin JOKE!!!

Do you want more, or are you going to tuck your tail between your legs and give up? Do you STILL not believe that Saddam ran a secular government? Do you still not understand WHY he ran the government like he did?

You see Mike, not only are you completely oblivious to everything that goes on in the world, you haven't a single clue as to how or why Saddam was ABLE to rule in a country like Iraq for 25+ years. No, you think inside your bubble, that everything is fine, well bubble boy, things are not fine, they are as bad as your lame arguments about Saddam not being secular.

Never once have I said that Saddam did not run a secular government. If you are going to make the claim back it up with a quote you lying POS. I have tried to educate you as to the FACT that he used religion at the same time he ran that secular government. Another Chom LIE down the tubes.

[chomerics]

:stupid:

Enough of your lies. I have NEVER said Saddam was "behind 9/11".

Nice backtrack, it is EXTREMELY funny, especially when taken in the context of your sig. How about your post on Salman Pak a year ago, when you were trying to profess that the terrorists from 9-11 were trained in Iraq? How about the time you stated that the meeting in Prague happened but it was up to me to prove that it DIDN'T happen, even though there was no evidence of Atta leaving the country, no evidence of him entering Prague, and none of him re-entering the US. He was never caught on a single videotape in any Airport, and he had a period of 4 days when we don't know his whereabouts, so OBVIOUSLY that meant that Atta met with an Iraqi diplomat in Prague. :doh:

Your talking points have all vanished Mike, as well as the non-existant weapons and nonexistant threat Saddam posed. You just completely fail to acknowledge anything even remotely representing the truth and instead STILL cling to the ludicrous assertions that you do.

What I have repeatedly said is that he may have been involved in some way that we cannot prove and given his track record and the FACT (go ahead, PROVE the bi-partizan commision was wrong) that he has had contact with Al Qaeda, it is in fact likely.

No Mike, you were duped by the rhetoric and your own blind hatred for the unknown. Saddam was not going to ally with Al Qaeda, in fact there is no evidence that there was a single pact between the two. Saddam was kept well under control by the sanctions, and he was no where NEAR the threat Bush made him out to be. We know this now, in hindsight, because there were NO weapons, no alliance and no where near the threat you think there was.

I have clearly PROVEN beyond a shadow of a doubt that he supported many terrorist organizations, hated and threatened America

So has EVERY other nation in the Middle East Mike, but don't let a simple thing like the facts cloud your judgement. The sanctions were working, whether you like to admit it or not, and he was NOT reconstituting a weapons program. Furthermore, even if he HAD WMDs (which he did not) he would have NEVER given them to Bin Laden. Saddam ruled through fear and intimidation. He looked at his weapons as a symbol of his power, similar to how he is ALWAYS wearing a belt with a gun. It is part of his persona and image, it is who he is. He would NEVER, I repeat NEVER have given away his power to another faction. It was not his mo, and it was not his personality. Saddam trusted NOBODY, least of all, other Muslims that had denounced him in the past. Yet you think that because they both hated America, that meant Saddam OBVIOUSLY would have allied with Bin Laden :doh:

I cant help it if you are too biased and dense to understand the argument, but I'm pretty damn sick of your lies.

I am not the one drinking the kool aid Mike, still trying to profess that Saddam was a threat to our security and our way of life.

The fact that you have to LIE to try to minimalize my argument and make AD HOMINEM attacks based on those lies shows how bankrupt your position is.

Point out my lies and call me on it Mike, I do it with you all the time, yet you fail to do the same with me. . . why is that? Maybe because I am not completely full of crap like yourself? Maybe because I actually use the thing on my shoulders called a brain? If I lie, then call me on it like I do you, it is really simple.

Yeah, and I'm a fascist because I express my opinion that I don't think his brand of anti american hate speech is appropriate here.

No you are a fascist because you want to ban somebody who has a different opinion then yourself. You were the one who posted the fascist viewpoint, not me. I just called you out on it, you just lack the ability to understand how your actions are fascist in nature. ANYTIME you try to eliminate one group of people, it is fascism whether you like it or not. I did not make up the definitions Mike, but your actions have shown your true colors.

BTW. I'm still waiting for you do denounce DU as Fascist.

I never go to the website, and I don't care for the people over there. Just because they hate Bush as much as I do does not mean I agree with their radical slant. They are just as bad as the freepers, they are both a bunch of wingnuts, totalitarian and FASCIST in their own little worlds. Hell, Destino was booted from DU from what I understand because he is too right, not my type of place.

[chomerics]

I probably failed to mention I have lived in this country, on and off, for a total of 16 years.

So please ask your Muslim friends whether they believe in Sharia law. Or whether they believe that eventually the whole world should live under Sharia. That's a direct, easy question. See what response you get.

And go to a mosque one day. Not the interfaith stuff or the Eid prayers. Just normal Friday service. After the khutba (sermon), there are a number of supplications usually in Arabic. At the large mosque here in Falls Church, it will be in Arabic. At the smaller services like you find downtown in office buildings or in schools, it's sometimes a weird mix of Arabic and Urdu. Count how many times you hear the word "Yahud" in the supplications.

An interesting comment you make about "piss ant" countries. Liberals often talk about how it's horrible that American women could potentially have to live without abortions and so forth, but it seems like they don't give a rat's butt about how 700+ million Muslim women live in other countries.

And keep in mind the Muslims in the "piss ant" countries are the VAST majority of Muslims in the world. If you go to a large mosque like the one in Falls Church, VA, you'll see that even in America the majority of muslims are recent immigrants or visitors/students from those same ME countries. And they bring with them the same Islam we were taught back home.

There are plenty of Muslims here on ES who can attest to their own mosques, and I don't for one minute buy your radical ranting that all of Islam is trying to take over the world. You have obviously been wronged by Islam, and you are speaking out against it, that is fine and it is your perrogative, but don't expect to sway people into believing that Islam is a religion based on overthrowing the US, because it is not.

As for you're little "exercise", I could tell you to do the same thing to radical sects of Christianity. Hell, Fred Phelps of the godhatesfags.com world is a good counter example. ALL religions have their lunatics, yet another reason why I am not religious.

[OldTownFan]

JJJJJJJJJJJJJJIIIIIIIIIIIIHHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDddd

sike motha ****as what kind of non patriotic motha****a you take me for?

[Sarge]

As for you're little "exercise", I could tell you to do the same thing to radical sects of Christianity.

Chicken to try?

[chomerics]

Chicken to try?

No Sarge, I think his posts espouse a racist slant and I think he is full of crap. Somewhere Islam wronged him down the line, hell I don't know, but his view of Islam is full of hatred and propaganda, nothing like the religion is about. I have known about 10 Muslims in my lifetime and not a single one of them even remotely spews 1/100th the BS being spewed in this thread. Islam is not about killing everyone, nor is it about taking over the world. It is a religion, plain and simple, no different the Christianity, Krishna, Hindu or the Greek Mythos.

Ask yourself this question, if Islam was such a repugnant religion as he espouses, why would Bush purposely declair that Islam is not on trial?

[Johnny Punani2]

There are plenty of Muslims here on ES who can attest to their own mosques, and I don't for one minute buy your radical ranting that all of Islam is trying to take over the world. You have obviously been wronged by Islam, and you are speaking out against it, that is fine and it is your perrogative, but don't expect to sway people into believing that Islam is a religion based on overthrowing the US, because it is not.

As for you're little "exercise", I could tell you to do the same thing to radical sects of Christianity. Hell, Fred Phelps of the godhatesfags.com world is a good counter example. ALL religions have their lunatics, yet another reason why I am not religious.

Exactly, you're not religious. So, how do you even know what you're talking about in regaurds to Islam?

Also Chom, please tell everyone exactly what sect of radical Christianity Fred Phelps belongs to. You are using a bad example to try and prove your point which you don't have a clue about because you are atheist. :doh:

[chomerics]

Exactly, you're not religious. So, how do you even know what you're talking about in regaurds to Islam?

And do YOU know so much more then me about Islam? No, you don't. What would you say if I said everything about Christianity that he has professed about Islam? I never said I know Islam, I have only stated through my experience with Muslims that I have know, Islam is not like what he is espousing.

Also Chom, please tell everyone exactly what sect of radical Christianity Fred Phelps belongs to. You are using a bad example to try and prove your point which you don't have a clue about because you are atheist. :doh:

He's Baptist, your point? EVERY religion has their nutjobs, and there have been many many religious terrorist acts in this country by christians who have bombed abortion clinics. I bring it up not because I think the majority of Christianity is radical, but to show that ALL religions have their own fruitcakes. Islam is really not much different from Christianity, they both have oxygen wasters.

[Johnny Punani2]

And do YOU know so much more then me about Islam? No, you don't. What would you say if I said everything about Christianity that he has professed about Islam? I never said I know Islam, I have only stated through my experience with Muslims that I have know, Islam is not like what he is espousing.

I would bet hoskins knows more about Islam considering he used to practice it. He isn't the only ex-Muslim who has said the exact samething. There are plenty of others who tell the same story. You see many on TV in various countries in the Middle East calling for the death of Israel and the West. You are telling me they don't believe what hoskins said? Surely, your not that foolish.

He's Baptist, your point? EVERY religion has their nutjobs, and there have been many many religious terrorist acts in this country by christians who have bombed abortion clinics. I bring it up not because I think the majority of Christianity is radical, but to show that ALL religions have their own fruitcakes. Islam is really not much different from Christianity, they both have oxygen wasters.

My point is you use a poor example to prove a point you seem to not understand. Fred Phelps and his followers are a extremely small minority in Christianity. That isn't the case with extreme forms of Islam. There are tens of millions who hold radical views of Islam. To compare the two is insane....

[Sarge]

No Sarge, I think his posts espouse a racist slant and I think he is full of crap. Somewhere Islam wronged him down the line, hell I don't know, but his view of Islam is full of hatred and propaganda, nothing like the religion is about. I have known about 10 Muslims in my lifetime and not a single one of them even remotely spews 1/100th the BS being spewed in this thread. Islam is not about killing everyone, nor is it about taking over the world. It is a religion, plain and simple, no different the Christianity, Krishna, Hindu or the Greek Mythos.

Ask yourself this question, if Islam was such a repugnant religion as he espouses, why would Bush purposely declair that Islam is not on trial?

Becasue Bush is more worried about being PC than possibly offending someone.

And I wonder how many other "peaceful" type muslims you have hanging around Beantown? Think the 9/11 hijackers were the only ones? The went to church somewhere, right?

And do you think that if you had known one of them pre-9/11, and asked them the question hoskins has asked you to ask your muslim friends, that they would come out and say they were radical islanmists?

Think about it

[chomerics]

I would bet hoskins knows more about Islam considering he used to practice it. He isn't the only ex-Muslim who has said the exact samething. There are plenty of others who tell the same story. You see many on TV in various countries in the Middle East calling for the death of Israel and the West. You are telling me they don't believe what hoskins said? Surely, your not that foolish.

No JP, I do NOT believe him. I also do not believe everything I see on TV. He is professing hate, and just because it isn't YOUR religion he's hating on, it's OK with you. . . right?

Are there radical Muslims in the world? Yes, there are I don't deny it. . . but I will deny and call bullsh!t when somebody tries to call out the entire religion as hatefilled anti-American propaganda.

My point is you use a poor example to prove a point you seem to not understand. Fred Phelps and his followers are a extremely small minority in Christianity. That isn't the case with extreme forms of Islam. There are tens of millions who hold radical views of Islam. To compare the two is insane....

No Johnny, that IS my point. Radical Islamofascism and terrorism is NOT a mainstream Muslim viewpoint. How many Muslims are in the US? Try to venture a guess, say 10million? Out of those 10million, how many have attacked us? Out of those 10million, how many have beheaded other Americans? How many are teaching a radical form of hate in our country?

If Islam was like he says it is, don't you think the religion of Islam would have already been attacking us from the inside? I mean 10million people is a hell of a lot of people don't you think? All he is doing is feeding into your fear of the unknown, and you are buying right into it. You are to smart for that Johnny, and your not a bigot, so why would you believe hate filled rants like he is spewing? Doesn't your the bible tell you always to forgive, repent, eliminate hatred and accept people for who they are? Why then would you agree with somebody that is preaching from a pulpet of hate?

[chomerics]

Becasue Bush is more worried about being PC than possibly offending someone.

Come on now Sarge, you mean to tell me Bush is to PC, so he doesn't say what he truly feels about Islam? So was he lying when he stated that it wasn't Islam that attacked us? Why say it at all if he thinks it?

And I wonder how many other "peaceful" type muslims you have hanging around Beantown? Think the 9/11 hijackers were the only ones? The went to church somewhere, right?

Sarge, maybe you should actually come to beantown and meet some Muslims. Maybe then you will understand that they want the exact same things as you and I, or are you trying to say that the other Muslims here are terrorists as well?

And do you think that if you had known one of them pre-9/11, and asked them the question hoskins has asked you to ask your muslim friends, that they would come out and say they were radical islanmists?

Think about it

Sarge, there are a billion Muslims in the world, and there were 20 nuts who attacked us. Funny how the Islamofascists are politically exactly where the Christian Coillition wants to turn this country huh :doh:

Think about that statement for a while.

[Crazyhorse1]

Christians have executed over six million women as witches. The two favorite methods have been crushing their bodies with rocks applied to boards placed over them and death by burning. Examinations for witchcraft have almost aways been accompanied by sexual elements, such as public stripping of the witch and search of the body for the devil's mark.

[nelms]

My point is you use a poor example to prove a point you seem to not understand. Fred Phelps and his followers are a extremely small minority in Christianity. That isn't the case with extreme forms of Islam. There are tens of millions who hold radical views of Islam. To compare the two is insane....

That is such an excellent point. While there are radical, violent extremists who profess they are Christians, they are few and far between. There are far fewer David Koreshes in the world than there are Mohammed Attas.

[codeorama]

There are far fewer David Koreshes in the world than there are Mohammed Attas.

Got some stats to back that up?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Just curious.

[tlk2rn]

I am lost and don't understand the point of this post at all. You don't actually think that Islam in its true form (not this radical/violent movement) is violent? You are talking about a religion that is in every country in the world and has over a billion followers. The reason people say, "it's a religion of peace", is because it is - like all major religions......

I am going to have to disagree with you on that one. Islam is nothing like Christianity and that is nothing like Buddah and so forth and so on.

[Crazyhorse1]

That is such an excellent point. While there are radical, violent extremists who profess they are Christians, they are few and far between. There are far fewer David Koreshes in the world than there are Mohammed Attas.

Get real. The whole Bush administration is a wingnut Christian group that has attracked a Muslim country without provocation. According to some estimates, it has killed up to 100,000 civilians, half of them children, based on deliberate lies about WMD's. Many of you posters on this site have only primitive notions of Islamic thought and truly fanatical/lunatic feelings of violence against a people you accuse of hideous crimes even as your representatives torture, humiliate, and kill them, innocent or guilty.

The Washington Post revealed today that the CIA has "black sites" (secret prison camps) all over Europe-- all known to the wingnut Christian leadership in the WH. Don't talk about Koresh. The fanatical Christian movement is hiding in plain sight; it's main stream. At present, it is disgracing America with its evil and destroying America's traditions. It is the most dangerous force on earth, and radical extremist of Islam with their pathetic homemade bombs and little swords don't begin to compare to it as a present danger.

[dfitzo53]

Get real. The whole Bush administration is a wingnut Christian group that has attracked a Muslim country without provocation. According to some estimates, it has killed up to 100,000 civilians, half of them children, based on deliberate lies about WMD's. Many of you posters on this site have only primitive notions of Islamic thought and truly fanatical/lunatic feelings of violence against a people you accuse of hideous crimes even as your representatives torture, humiliate, and kill them, innocent or guilty.

The Washington Post revealed today that the CIA has "black sites" (secret prison camps) all over Europe-- all known to the wingnut Christian leadership in the WH. Don't talk about Koresh. The fanatical Christian movement is hiding in plain sight; it's main stream. At present, it is disgracing America with its evil and destroying America's traditions. It is the most dangerous force on earth, and radical extremist of Islam with their pathetic homemade bombs and little swords don't begin to compare to it as a present danger.

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that this post began with "Get real."?

[tlk2rn]

Well, it seems that Christianity has progressed beyond the abortion-clinic bombings, and clearly the Christian fanatics now represent a FAR, FAR smaller percentage of their religion, than the fanatics that represent Islam.

That is just the thing. People always say they do things beacuase of the zeal they have for their god. Do you really think that God wanted that bomber to blow up that abortion clinic. I dont think so. Hitler said that he did his thing because he heard a voice from god. The KKK uses the Bible to jusify their hatred of anyone that is non-white and doesn't think the way they do. We should look at the people that are doing these heinous things and not the religion. I am a Christian, but I have love and respect for all people. I believe Christ died for everyone not just a particular group of people. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD, is the beginning words of John 3:16. Jesus always used the words for whosoever, whoever, the world and anyone. Jesus loved all people. He was no respector of persons. Does love kill. NO!!!! Does zeal for ones religion kill. NO!!! It is stupid people that kill. Oh yeah I do consider myself a Fanatic for Christ, just as I am a fanatic for my beloved Redskins. :dallasuck

[nelms]

Got some stats to back that up?

How do you come to that conclusion?

Just curious.

I could post a zillion articles on recent terrorist attacks from radical Islamic terrorists. I'm not because I'm lazy and I'm sure you could look them up just as easily.

So, are you saying that there are just as many or even more violent, radical Christian extremists than there are Islamic extremists? If so, do you have any recent examples?

[fayz]

i dont see the point of hate filled posts on a redskins site!

theres good and bad in every religion

just like the russians were the enemy previously,now its the turn of the muslims

u can say muslims dont like jews or americans or whoever

but u can also say jews dont like muslims,sikhs dont like muslims either and by the sounds of it on here americans dont like muslims either

u can say muslims did this or that,but dont forget the ethnic cleansing that killed thousands of muslims in places such as bosnia,albania,kosovo and other countries where muslims have been getting killed eg chechnya,kashmir-im sure muslims dont blame christianity as a whole 4 this

u also forget,the extremist muslims if u say they hate america they also hate moderate muslims for not doing enough.they are constantly fighting eachother not just sunni v shias but also sunnis against sunnis

this would go round and round and its a pretty pointless hate filled topic i joined to support the redskins and talk to redskins fans.

[tlk2rn]

Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA) – Terrorist organization in Uganda

KKK – Christian terrorist organization that I think we all know about

Christian Identity: an organization made up of various radical groups

The Order, God’s Army (Burma), ect..

I agree that is not as common as in Islam of course – but don’t ignore Christian problems.

But are these Christians genuine or are they use religion as a springboard for launching their hatred. As far as know, the Bible says FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON THAT WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. That doesn't sound like hate to me. It's not the religion with the problem it is the people. The underlined words are words of selflessness not selfishness.

[tlk2rn]

http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=islam&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unc.edu%2F%257Ekurzman%2Fterror.htm

Here is a list of just some of the most powerful people in the Islamic world and what they had to say post 9/11. I am not sure what you want them to do - the quotes are right there. Maybe we could make shirts or something that says "Osama is not my friend" and get those arabs to wear them around - then I would feel better.

Also, why does the church nor every day citizens in America not speak out often against the KKK or the LRA in Uganda? I will say that as a Christian I have been silent on those issues in connection with the church - does that make me guilty of their crimes?

Those organizations are nowhere near affiliated with Christianity. They hate and Christ loves............EVERYONE