Zazzaro703 Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 http://www.washingtonpost.com/express/wp/2014/02/25/for-the-redskins-everythings-on-the-line/ "But — and here’s the whole point of the five-day combine for Washington — the team needs four new linemen. Without a first-round pick, there was no need to watch quarterback Johnny Manziel or defensive end Jadeveon Clowney. The Redskins scouted offensive linemen Taylor Lewan of Michigan and Zack Martin of Notre Dame and will scheme over the next two months how they can trade back into the first round to get a premier tackle like those two. Also, they looked at guards Gabe Jackson of Mississippi State and Cyril Richardson of Baylor, trying to decide which they like more for second- or third-round options. And, it didn’t hurt looking at centers like Travis Swanson of Arkansas and Gabe Ikard of Oklahoma." Hmm... that would be interesting if we did move up into the first round to get one of those players and got Cyril Richardson from Baylor with our 2nd but i dont see how we could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Scratches head. It seemed like you were making conclusions about Buc based on this one game.*shrugs* Lol, I'm not sure how many other ways I can say that this is one game and one game doesn't determine a prospects worth.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Hmm... that would be interesting if we did move up into the first round to get one of those players and got Cyril Richardson from Baylor with our 2nd but i dont see how we could do it. That would be interesting, and I'm not sure how to do it without sacrificing our 2015 first rounder. But I know I'm not a fan of Cyril Richardson at #34. However that's just me, lowly internet youtube cutup watcher, not the people who get paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 That would be interesting, and I'm not sure how to do it without sacrificing our 2015 first rounder. But I know I'm not a fan of Cyril Richardson at #34. However that's just me, lowly internet youtube cutup watcher, not the people who get paid for it. Cyril may be there in the 3rd and I could see martin being around at 34. We could heavily revamp our line in one draft but we need help at receiver too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Cyril may be there in the 3rd and I could see martin being around at 34. We could heavily revamp our line in one draft but we need help at receiver too. Zach Martin is a must get guy at 34. Very unlikely but a must get. I could care less about Cyril and I personally like Yankey and Su'a Filo more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ew2PUK6fzh4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Jonathan Newsome Team Profile: http://ballstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=205250718 ** 2013 All-Mid-American Conference First Team **** 2013 Rotary Lombardi Award Preseason Watch List ** ** 2013 Ted Hendricks Award Preseason Watch List ** ** 2013 Mid-American Conference West Division ** Defensive Player of the Week (10/5/13 & 11/6/13 & 11/29/13) ** 2012 All-Mid-American Conference Second Team ** 2011: Redshirted as a transfer. PREVIOUS COLLEGE: Spent the 2009 and 2010 seasons at Ohio State ... Draft Scout Profile: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=90540&draftyear=2014&genpos=OLB 12/14/13 - 2013 ALL-MAC FIRST TEAM: Down Lineman - Jonathan Newsome, Ball State Newsome, who was a three-time MAC West Division Defensive Player of the Week, has started 11 games in 2013 and 21 games total in his two seasons at Ball State after transferring from Ohio State. Newsome ranked sixth for the Cardinals with 57 total tackles, while leading the team with 11 tackles for loss and 8 sacks on the season. He was named to the All-MAC First Team after being honored on the All-MAC Second Team in 2012. - Ball State football ... http://youtu.be/XMDEL1SfAeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Newsome partook of the Combine Drills with the defensive linemen. He was DL34. He is however a conversion DL to OLB. Size wise, coupled with pass rushing, he's a 3-4 OLB. He was one of the smoothest weight transfer guys in his group during position drills, like Wave Drill, showing nice feet and hips. Late round option for a project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If our front office is actually serious about the o-line, then there is no reason to not address it, with resound, during free agency. Even if that means unsettling a serviceable or otherwise average guy already here with a legitimate free agent upgrade. Thus, we may be investing slightly more money in the grand scheme, to the overall unit, instead of the dollar general price tag we've otherwise placed on the four positions outside of LT already, but worth it - imo. It has to be the right guys though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 But I know I'm not a fan of Cyril Richardson at #34. However that's just me, lowly internet youtube cutup watcher, not the people who get paid for it. Bro, those people getting paid are just as fallible and sometimes no better than an decently involved draftniker. Ha, It's not even funny. I've come across folks here on ES, on the outside, who do just as good a job if not better. The folks in Cincy's front office aren't any better than draftniks. In fact, I'd say the Cincy FO went after the "name" guys by and large. You know, the well known, everyone has tape on them, covered extensively by mass media, types. Cincy seemingly has drafted, basically, a bunch of the "name" guys in each of the last bundle of drafts. The same guys that the draftnikers were all on themselves. If I had to boil it down, I'd say people within the decision making apparatus in Cincy literally used places like CBS and Draft Scout, in part, during the eval and shifting / ranking of boards. The folks in St.Lewy's front office are no better than draftnikers. In fact, I swear that some of St.Lewy's final decisions have come straight from message board battles. Guys like Quick and Pead were basically highly discussed draftnik dudes. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "scouts" or "execs" from st.Lewy weren't masquerading as message board drones, shopping ideas, getting material, during the months in prelude to the build-up of the draft. Seriously. You'd be hard pressed to not find a halfway decent draftniker, with maybe H.S. and/or small college football experience, who couldn't have drafted better than ole Al Davis during his painfully sad final years / days. All I know is that I'd roll with stevemcqueen and dukes before some the schlums we've got slurpin' up a pay check. Yeah I said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 Thanks for the kind words Monk. Means a lot to me bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 If our front office is actually serious about the o-line, then there is no reason to not address it, with resound, during free agency. Even if that means unsettling a serviceable or otherwise average guy already here with a legitimate free agent upgrade. Thus, we may be investing slightly more money in the grand scheme, to the overall unit, instead of the dollar general price tag we've otherwise placed on the four positions outside of LT already, but worth it - imo. It has to be the right guys though. The problem is that we actually aren't Dollar General. Overthecap.com has us as the 13th most expensive o-line in 2013. In 2014, we're currently the 5th most expensive o-line. http://overthecap.com/offensebreakdown.php?Year=2014 The issue here is that we've got middling to poor players with decent salaries. Pretty sure we're cutting Chester, and maybe Montgomery or Lichtensteiger. But the o-line as of right now isn't cheap. We have nobody on a rookie contract to lessen the load. If Chester's cut, and LeRibeus starts, we could get 2 years of him for cheap. If we look at the highest paid Guards for 2013, we see Chris Chester in a sea of names that he should not belong with. In a league where there are 64 starting Guards, he's the 18th highest paid. Lichtensteiger is the 24th highest paid. So our guards are being paid more than the average amount. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=G Here we see Montgomery as the 14th highest paid Center, so...basically average since he's only 80k more expensive than the 16th highest paid Center. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=C Tyler Polumbus, on the other hand, is 30th out of 32 (theoretically) starting RT's. Now here's where our RT spot gets interesting, remember Jammal Brown? Just the Dead Cap hit from releasing him would make him the 12th highest paid RT. And his contract was worth more than that. His original contract was I think 5.5 million a year, which would make him the 7th highest paid RT. http://overthecap.com/top-player-salaries.php?Position=RT So we have put a lot of money into the o-line, it's just that they've either gotten old and crappy or injured. One of the differences I see between us and other teams, deals with draft picks. Since the rookie wage scale in 2011 (so Trent's deal doesn't count for this), we've only had one lucrative draft pick used on an o-lineman. Josh LeRibeus in round 3. That's a 3rd round salary on a Guard that should be giving us meaningful production (and I hope he does, I'm optimistic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emsworth Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 As others have said I think that C Richardson at 34 would be considered a reach, very good chance that he's still there at 66. Still much prefer G Jackson over the other Guards available in this draft, nothing from the meat-market or other pre-draft jamboree's has indicated any different from the tape for me. I seem to be the only person not sold on Su'o Fila, I just haven't seen it tbh. Looked a bit slow off the snap and 'graby', concerned that'd be a recipe for a lot of holding calls against NFL level players. Going away from the O-Line for a mo, anyone have any thoughts on trying to convert Shaquil Barrett (Colorado St.) to ILB? Seems a good all round football player and competitor though a somewhat limited athlete. Would need some conversion time, but if a team is expecting a 6-7th rounder to step in and start you're in big trouble anyway . Could start off as a ST contributor and try and work his way in, if injury forced it could operate as an edge-rusher too. Perhaps a possible Lorenzo Mk 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 http://draftbreakdown.com/video/cody-latimer-vs-michigan-state-2013/ Why is nobody talking about this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukes and Skins Posted February 28, 2014 Author Share Posted February 28, 2014 http://draftbreakdown.com/video/cody-latimer-vs-michigan-state-2013/ Why is nobody talking about this guy? People actually are, but not in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 The problem is that we actually aren't Dollar General. So we have put a lot of money into the o-line, it's just that they've either gotten old and crappy or injured. Dollar General implies more than just money. It implies quality. So, our FO doesn't know how to appropriately value or pay the commodities compared to their actual production return. Basically we overpay for mediocrity. Sounds about right. That's even more of an indictment. The FO shopped downmarket on cast-off free agents with all of 'em, Kory, Monty, TP and CC. I mean it's one thing to be cheap and know full-well that the product will have some limitations or holes. It's another to overpay for the same product but not realize that you are overpaying. It's even more confounding if they actually believed that the product they were buying wasn't actually that bad. Like I said, if we are going to spend any money at all, might as well spend good money for good products. But injuries happen, no one is perfect, fans will still complain, probably moreso just based upon spending more money for seemingly better players. I mean could you imagine if the team actually got Jared Veldheer, paid him well, everyone agreed in theory that he was a huge upgrade to TP, then Veldheer gives up a sack or struggles ... Within moments a thread on ES arrives ready to tar and feather, complaints about spending too much money instead of less money, trying to chase an unreasonable dream instead on relying on the old glove. I can see it now, clear as day. But I can more easily prognosticate Veldheer, in reality, being a huge upgrade to the o-line and a boon as a legit bookend, but likewise, a double impact because of being a swing tackle in case of any injury to our LT. Money well spent ... if the opportunity were there, of course. I don't know, I don't shop at Dollar General, maybe they got some really good deals on Malk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 This is what bugs me... I understand the worry about overpaying guys, FA busts, etc. But, it seems like some people want us only to get players that are "for the right price". However, if we just get mediocre players for the right price, we will get mediocre results...or worse. It's funny to me that we like to criticize when we get a big name that doesn't pan out, but we don't criticize the low risk moves that turn out to be garbage. Both are highly detrimental. I don't care if we sign studs at stud salaries, as long as they play like studs. We've just targeted the wrong dudes. Garcon is looking to change that rep. The draft and FA are like a tango. I could see us signing FA LB and FS help, and drafting WR and OL. Or we could get WR and OL help in FA, and focus on drafting LBs and DL. I think both approaches could be homeruns if we play it right. However, I don't see any draft scenario that gets us free and clear of having to target a starting FS and ILB in FA. If we fail to do so, I think we will suck again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Phillip Gaines vs Marshall (2013) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemoveSnyder Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 ---------- Post added December-1st-2012 at 03:14 PM ---------- Another "big-boned" LB who I've grown fond of is Shawn Jackson of Tulsa (55). ... TULSA'S SHAWN JACKSON NAMED C-USA DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR http://www.tulsahurricane.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/121113aab.html The senior was among C-USA's top-5 for tackles, TFLs, interceptions and fumble recoveries A four-year starter, Jackson completed his career second on the school's all-time tackles chart with 401 tackles in 49 games played, while starting 46 contests. He holds the school's career records for tackles for lost yardage (55.5 for -230 yards), quarterback sacks (23.5 for -146 yards) and tied for fumble recoveries (6). video ↓ http://www.ktul.com/story/24823833/tulsas-own-shawn-jackson-prepares-for-a-shot-in-the-league?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9884051 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Let me do a mock draft. I used the next mock drafts and bigboard as base: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/190602 http://walterfootball.com/ http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings Pick 34: Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA. I think he would be a upgrade at either guard spot. I like him because he is i.m.o. scheme diverse. He can run a zone or more power scheme. This fits in the idea that Gruden has. Pick 66: Jarvis Landry, WR, LSU. He didn’t work out great at the combine but I don’t think that’s a problem. He is just tough. He can get YAC and is great blocker. I like him a lot. Only question you could ask if he is really a good fit to play with Garcon. Both are a little bit the same type of players. Only is Garcon more athletic, faster. Pick 98: Joel Bitonio, OT-G, Nevada. This was a difficult one because we already drafter Xavier and I think Bitonio his best position would be guard. With the holes we have, can I spend two draft picks on guards? I think I can. Both players have played tackle so we might just give them a shot in the pre-season at RT. I just think this guy is a steal in the 4th. (both Walter and CBS had him available at 98) Pick 130: Antone Exum, DB, Virginia Tech. We need depth at DB. I think Exum can play some safety and some corner. He is probally a better safety but we might try him in that hybrid position of the slot CB. I think he can matchup with TE’s and make plays in the running game. Maby he lacks the speed for it (cover slot WR’s), but there is a reason why he is drafted in the 5th round. Pick 162: Isaiah Crowell, RB, Alabama State. Yeah you can draft hard working nice guys and try to win this league…but to many times in my life I have seen prospects drop because of questionable character and then dominate the league. He could be one of the top RB’s if he wouldn’t have some red flags. Pick 194: Max Bullough or Anderew Jackson, ILB. Both are not very fast but they are just hamers. I don’t expect them to be 3 down lb’s. Just make the tackles when someone wants to run inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Dollar General implies more than just money. It implies quality. Shortened your post, but basically I agree. We should not have traded for Jammal Brown (or McNabb). I think the way we handled the 2013 offseason was botched. They wanted to keep the o-line together, despite 3rd and long protection being a major weakness in 2012. We overpaid for Chris Chester in 2011, and I remember Ravens fans feeling surprised he went for that much money. I'm not sure who we were bidding against, maybe someone with better memory can answer that. It's funny, RG3 had this amazing season in 2012, yet our teams 3rd down conversion on anything longer than (I think) 4 or more yards was near worst in the league. I'm guessing Shanny thought RG3 would develop that in the future and the o-line wasn't a big culprit. He also drafted guys who can stretch the field horizontally/vertically from the TE and RB spots (Reed and Thompson), I suppose in another attempt to fix that. But it's weird that he didn't view the o-line as a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Shortened your post, but basically I agree. We should not have traded for Jammal Brown (or McNabb). I think the way we handled the 2013 offseason was botched. They wanted to keep the o-line together, despite 3rd and long protection being a major weakness in 2012. We overpaid for Chris Chester in 2011, and I remember Ravens fans feeling surprised he went for that much money. I'm not sure who we were bidding against, maybe someone with better memory can answer that. It's funny, RG3 had this amazing season in 2012, yet our teams 3rd down conversion on anything longer than (I think) 4 or more yards was near worst in the league. I'm guessing Shanny thought RG3 would develop that in the future and the o-line wasn't a big culprit. He also drafted guys who can stretch the field horizontally/vertically from the TE and RB spots (Reed and Thompson), I suppose in another attempt to fix that. But it's weird that he didn't view the o-line as a weakness. I think rg3 was as much of a culprit as our o-line last year. He holds the ball noticeably longer than, say, Dalton. I went back and watched Dalton's rookie year and he was pretty much just as decisive, so I don't think it's something Gruden got out of him. We could definitely use upgrades on o-line, but I wonder if having another great receiver wouldn't help. It's a systemic thing, wr's get open faster, rg3 is more confident in them and therefor more decisive, and then our o-line looks better because they don't have to hold their block as long. Going back to our games I've got to be honest, outside of Chester (and polumbus was the culprit in 2012), our o-line wasn't the major problem. I don't think we need massive changes for our o-line to be effective. Then again, I think part of how the 2013 offseason was handled was due to having our hands tied behind our backs. It's not like you typically sign a RT for league minimum and are excited about him being your starter. In all honesty we couldn't afford upgrades. This is one reason I really hope we don't re-sign Santana unless it is for super cheap. His career is done, bringing him back would be for his leadership but if he goes into next season as our #2 or #3 then we've failed hard at upgrading RG3's offensive weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Let me do a mock draft. I used the next mock drafts and bigboard as base: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/mock-drafts/daniel-jeremiah/190602 http://walterfootball.com/ http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings Pick 34: Xavier Su'a-Filo, OG, UCLA. I think he would be a upgrade at either guard spot. I like him because he is i.m.o. scheme diverse. He can run a zone or more power scheme. This fits in the idea that Gruden has. Pick 66: Jarvis Landry, WR, LSU. He didn’t work out great at the combine but I don’t think that’s a problem. He is just tough. He can get YAC and is great blocker. I like him a lot. Only question you could ask if he is really a good fit to play with Garcon. Both are a little bit the same type of players. Only is Garcon more athletic, faster. Pick 98: Joel Bitonio, OT-G, Nevada. This was a difficult one because we already drafter Xavier and I think Bitonio his best position would be guard. With the holes we have, can I spend two draft picks on guards? I think I can. Both players have played tackle so we might just give them a shot in the pre-season at RT. I just think this guy is a steal in the 4th. (both Walter and CBS had him available at 98) Pick 130: Antone Exum, DB, Virginia Tech. We need depth at DB. I think Exum can play some safety and some corner. He is probally a better safety but we might try him in that hybrid position of the slot CB. I think he can matchup with TE’s and make plays in the running game. Maby he lacks the speed for it (cover slot WR’s), but there is a reason why he is drafted in the 5th round. Pick 162: Isaiah Crowell, RB, Alabama State. Yeah you can draft hard working nice guys and try to win this league…but to many times in my life I have seen prospects drop because of questionable character and then dominate the league. He could be one of the top RB’s if he wouldn’t have some red flags. Pick 194: Max Bullough or Anderew Jackson, ILB. Both are not very fast but they are just hamers. I don’t expect them to be 3 down lb’s. Just make the tackles when someone wants to run inside. If Bitonio is there in the 4th, he's gotta be BPA. I'd love to grab both Su'a-Filo and Bitonio. This draft would be ridiculous. I still like Landry, but there are a few others I might like more at #66 if they're available. I'd love to find a vertical/outside guy such as Paul Richardson. If not, Landry would still be a good get. Honestly, we don't have to hit a home run with our 3rd round WR, if all he does is play hard, block hard, have a high catch rate, and get around 700ish yards a year. He'd be an upgrade that we'd have on a cheap contract for the next 4 years. If Landry does that out of the gate, but that's his ceiling? I'd still take that production for a 3rd round draft pick. We need talent on the team, and we need contributors. Here's something else, do we want to go after injured players? And try and steal them by hoping they heal well and stay healthy? Dominique Easley, Cyrus Kouandijo, and Stephen Tuitt are examples. I have no idea where Cyrus goes, rumor at the combine was that half a dozen teams took him off their entire draft lists. He could fall to Day 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Here's something else, do we want to go after injured players? And try and steal them by hoping they heal well and stay healthy? Dominique Easley, Cyrus Kouandijo, and Stephen Tuitt are examples. I have no idea where Cyrus goes, rumor at the combine was that half a dozen teams took him off their entire draft lists. He could fall to Day 3. Easley isn´t a great fit but injury-wise I have no problem with going for him. Cyrus has a knee issue...I would stay away from that. Knee´s just don´t heal. Tuitt his injury just might take a lot of time to fully heal. So you need to ask if you want to use a higher draft pick for a guy who would miss pre-season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 My mock draft would be: *Trade: Redskins trade QB Kirk Cousins to the Houston Texans for pick #65 (3) and #129 (5) -- assumes Houston goes Clowney at #1 and doesn't want a 2nd round project QB to groom *Trade: Redskins trade #34 (2) and #130 (5) to New York Jets for pick #49 (2) and #80 (3) 2 (49): Martavias Bryant, WR Clemson 3 (65): David Yankey, OG Stanford 3 (66): Christian Jones, ILB Florida State 3 (80): Deone Buchannon, FS Washington State 4 (98): Jared Abbrederis, WR Wisconsin 5 (129): EJ Gaines, CB Mizzou 6 (162): QB 7 (194): PUNTER That mock would tempt me to focus free agency around a RT, OC, Orakpo, Riley and DE/NT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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