***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[daveakl]

So I just heard somebody say that Jon Ireland said on his show that he can create of five of any of the great Lakers and it would beat any team from any of the other teams in the league.

 

So this is who he came up with...

PG-Magic

SG-Kobe

F-Elgin Baylor

F-James Worthy

C-Kareem

 

lol Nice list, but no....

 

Did he mean any 5 from the entire league, or any five from one team.

 

How about Miami:

G-Wade

G-Hardaway

F-Bosh

F-James

C-Shaq

[CrypticVillain]

So I just heard somebody say that Jon Ireland said on his show that he can create of five of any of the great Lakers and it would beat any team from any of the other teams in the league.

 

So this is who he came up with...

PG-Magic

SG-Kobe

F-Elgin Baylor

F-James Worthy

C-Kareem

 

lol Nice list, but no....

 

Did he mean any 5 from the entire league, or any five from one team.

 

How about Miami:

G-Wade

G-Hardaway

F-Bosh

F-James

C-Shaq

Nope, he actually said any five from all the teams in the league combined lol

Edited August 9, 2013 by MLSKINS

[Monte51Coleman]

From that group I'd drop Isiah, add Bird, and let LBJ match up with Magic.

 

1. Magic vs Lebron

2. Jordan vs Kobe

3. Bird vs Worthy

4. Duncan vs Baylor

5. Hakeem vs Kareem

[Going Commando]

 

So I just heard somebody say that Jon Ireland said on his show that he can create of five of any of the great Lakers and it would beat any team from any of the other teams in the league.

 

So this is who he came up with...

PG-Magic

SG-Kobe

F-Elgin Baylor

F-James Worthy

C-Kareem

 

lol Nice list, but no....

 

Did he mean any 5 from the entire league, or any five from one team.

 

How about Miami:

G-Wade

G-Hardaway

F-Bosh

F-James

C-Shaq

Nope, he actually said any five from all the teams in the league combined lol

 

Well he's just wrong then.  Not even close.  FWIW, my 5 would be:

 

PG: Oscar

SG: Jordan

SF: LeBron, though Bird would work too.

PF: Duncan

C: Russell (Does Wilt qualify?)

 

That team would be unspeakably good.  Magic and Kareem are the only ones who could rightfully crack that group.  And even still, Oscar and Russell is basically as good as they are.  It's not even close at the other three positions.

 

Not only have you got the perfect mix of facilitators and scorers, but outside Oscar, you've pretty much got the best defensive line up that could be conceived.  They'd kill that Lakers team.

I think comparing LA's 5 against other franchise's 5 is interesting.  I think the Celtics could take them, especially if you did a first and second team.  Hell, Boston could field damn good third and fourth teams replete with HoFers at almost every spot:

 

1st team:

PG: Bob Cousy

SG: Sam Jones

SF: Larry Bird

PF: Kevin McHale

C: Bill Russell

 

2nd team:

PG: Tiny Archibald

SG: Dennis Johnson

SF: Hondo

PF: Dave Cowens

C: Robert Parish

 

3rd team:

PG: KC Jones

SG:  Frank Ramsey

SF: Bailey Howell

PF: Kevin Garnett

C: Bill Sharman

 

4th team:

PG: JoJo White

SG: Ray Allen

SF: Paul Pierce

PF: Satch Sanders

C: Ed McCauley

 

That's an incredible collection of talent.  That third team could feasibly beat Washington's first team.

[Going Commando]

Nobody would have the depth of HoFers that Boston would if you did multiple teams.  But there are several organizations that would have surprisingly strong second and third teams.

 

Houston, for example, would be pretty deep because of how awesome their big man tradition is.

 

First team:

PG: Calvin Murphy

SG: Clyde

SF: T-Mac

PF: Elvin Hayes

C: Hakeem/Moses

 

You could have Sampson and Moses as your second team bigs.  That's pretty dang good.  Dwight wouldn't even crack the list because you still have Yao ahead of him.  I'm not even considering Barkley or Pippen either, they don't really count as Rockets IMO.

[Going Commando]

Portland fields a nice team.  You forget how solid their NBA history is:

 

G: Terry Porter

G: Drexler

F: Brandon Roy

F: Bill Walton

C: Sabonis

 

One that really surprised me was OKC/Seattle.  They've had a rich history of excellent players:

 

1st

PG: Gary Payton

SG: Ray Allen

SF: Kevin Durant

PF: Shawn Kemp

C: Jack Sikma

 

That team would be awesome.  That franchise isn't the first that comes to mind when you think PG tradition, but theirs is one of the best.  Behind Payton, they could also play Gus Willams, Lenny Wilkens, and even Russell Westbrook.

 

This is fun, I'm going to keep coming up with these.

[Going Commando]

San Antonio, predictably good:

 

PG: Tony Parker

SG: Manu Ginobli

SF: George Gervin

PF: Duncan

C: Robinson

 

That was easy.  They've got the most clearly defined top 5 of anyone, each fitting in nicely to their own position.  And they'd still have Artis Gilmore on the bench.  That team would beat most other team's best 5.

 

 

 

Another good one, Golden State:

 

PG: Tim Hardaway

SG: Chris Mullin

SF: Rick Barry

PF: Nate Thurmond

C: Wilt Chamberlain

 

That team would be awesome to watch.  Probably have the most scoring punch.  They'd also have Paul Arizin, Neil Johnston, and Mitch Richmond on the bench.  Plus you could probably add Steph Curry to that list.  And I guess Robert Parrish technically, but he's a Celtic to me.  The Warriors have a nice history.

[Going Commando]

Utah, pretty good:

 

PG: Stockton

SG: Pistol Pete

SF: Adrian Dantley

PF: Karl Malone

C: Mark Eaton

 

Darrell Griffith, Deron, AK47, and Boozer is actually a fairly respectable second line.

 

 

Denver, solid group:

 

PG: Fat Lever

SG: David Thompson

SF: Alex English

PF: Carmelo?

C: Dan Issel

 

I suppose you could replace Carmelo at PF with Issel and put Mutumbo at C.  I guess Mutumbo is a Nugget.

 

 

Phoenix, awful defensively but a ton of fun:

PG: Nash, but KJ comes really close

SG: Walter Davis

SF: Shawn Marion

PF: Barkley

C: Amar'e

 

Decent bench options like Tom Chambers, KJ, Thunder Dan.

 

 

Dallas, not the best:

PG: Kidd

SG: Rolando Blackman

SF: Mark Aguirre

PF: Dirk

C: Roy Tarpley (really scraping the barrel)

 

Their franchise history is abysmal outside the Dirk era.

 

 

Clippers, surprisingly fun list.  You'd think this group would be horrendous but it's actually not:

PG: CP3

SG: World B. Free

SF: Randy Smith

PF: Elton Brand

C: Bob McAdoo

 

 

Sacramento, actually really good when you factor in their history in Cincinnati:

PG: Oscar Robertson

SG: Mitch Richmond

SF: Jack Twyman

PF: C-Webb

C: Jerry Lucas

 

 

New Orleans, solid when you factor in Charlotte:

PG: CP3

SG: Dell Curry

SF: Glen Rice

PF: LJ

C: Zo

 

 

Minnesota:  not worth doing.  KG is literally the only great player they've had, though Love is on his way.  You're looking at Wall Szcerbiak and Sam Cassell as the second and third best players in franchise history right now...

 

Memphis: Same.

 

 

That's the West.

 

1.) Lakers

2.) Spurs

3.) Warriors

4.) Rockets

5.) Kings/Royals

6.) Thunder/Sonics

7.) Blazers

8.) Jazz

9.) Suns

10.) Clippers

11.) Nuggets

12.) Pelicans/Hornets

13.) Dallas

14.) TWolves

15.) Grizzlies

 

Alright, I'm done.  I'll do the East another time.

[Going Commando]

I'd take Isiah Thomas out and add another SF that could shoot and defend.  If you're going up against a 6'8 point guard in Magic Johnson you might as well just have Lebron playing PG full time.  

 

That makes sense.  Bird then.  I'd also swap out Hakeem for Russell probably.  Russell was the greatest player of his era, him or Wilt would work.  Duncan is the greatest player of his era.  Jordan the greatest of his.  LeBron the greatest of his.  And Bird was the co-greatest of his era.  That's be an unbelievable team.

[daveakl]

Miami-

Wade

Hardaway

James

Bosh

Shaq

[Going Commando]

Shaq was only in Miami for three years and was only dominant for the first year.  In the other two he missed almost as many games as he played.  Almost all of Shaq's good years were in Orlando and LA.  When you reflect on Shaq's career, he gets remembered as a member of the Magic or Lakers, not the Heat.

 

I'd go with Zo as the C for Miami instead.  He was a true member of that team, played their for ten years, and had his best years there.

[Going Commando]

Another way of looking at it: Shaq played just 15% of his career minutes in Miami.  That's only a little bit more than Jordan played in DC, and both were in a similar state of decline at that point.  Miami's title was all DWade in 2006-2007.  Shaq only played 4 games that postseason, and only 40 games during the regular season.  I don't think the Heat get to claim Shaq any more than the Wizards get to claim Jordan.

Edited August 10, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Here's my picks for the East.

 

Knicks:

PG: Walt Frazier

SG: Earl Monroe

SF: Dave DeBusschere

PF: Willis Reed

C: Patrick Ewing

 

Celtics, already done, but recap:

 

PG: Cousy

SG: Hondo

SF: Bird

PF: McHale

C: Russell

 

76ers:

PG: Larry Costello (HoFer)

SG: Allen Iverson

SF: Dr. J

PF: Charles Barkley

C: Wilt Chamberlain

 

Their second team would actually be fantastic:

 

PG: Mo Cheeks

SG: Hal Greer

SF: Bobby Jones

PF: Dolph Schayes

C: Moses Malone

 

Nets:

 

PG: Jason Kidd

SG: Drazen Petrovic

SF: Vince Carter

PF: Derrick Coleman

C: Buck Williams

 

Raptors:

Not worth mentioning.

 

Bulls:

PG: Derrick Rose

SG: Michael Jordan

SF: Scottie Pippen

PF: Bob Love

C: Artis Gilmore

 

Second team isn't terrible either, lots of old timers:

PG: Norm Van Lier

SG: Jerry Sloan

SF: Chet Walker

PF: Dennis Rodman

C: Horace Grant

 

Bucks:

PG: Oscar Robertson

SG: Sidney Moncrief

SF: Marques Johnson or Glen Robinson

PF: Terry Cummings

C: Lew Alcindor/Kareem Abdul Jabbar

 

 

Cavs, not as bad as you'd think.  Not just LeBron and and a bunch of stiffs:

PG: Mark Price

SG: Austin Carr

SF: LeBron James

PF: Larry Nance

C: Brad Daugherty

 

 

Pacers, not as good as you'd think:

PG: Mark Jackson

SG: Reggie Miller

SF: Roger Brown (ABA stud)

PF: Jermaine O'Neal

C: Mel Daniels

 

Pistons:

PG: Isaiah Thomas

SG: Joe Dumars

SF: Grant Hill

PF: Dennis Rodman

C: Bob Lanier

 

Second team wouldn't be bad:

PG: Dave Bing

SG: Rip Hamilton

SF: Kelly Tripucka

PF: Ben Wallace

C: Bill Laimbeer

 

 

Heat, probably the best from that group of expansion teams:

PG: Tim Hardaway

SG: Dwyane Wade

SF: LeBron James

PF: Chris Bosh

C: Alonzo Mourning

 

Magic, not terrible for a late 80's expansion team:

PG: Penny Hardaway

SG: Tracy McGrady

SF: Dennis Scott

PF: Horace Grant

C: Shaq

 

Bobcats: LOL.  Gerald Wallace and Emeka Okafor are their all time greats.  It's going to be a little while before they get some worthy names.

 

Hawks, not very recognizable given their best run came in the late 50s:

PG: Lenny Wilkens

SG: Cliff Hagan or Lou Hudson, some old guy or other

SF: Dominique Wilkins

PF: Bob Pettit

C: Kevin Willis

 

Wizards:

PG: Gilbert Arenas or Rod Strickland

SG: Earl Monroe

SF: Bernard King or Bob Dandridge.  Pretty lame history here.

PF: Elvin Hayes

C: Wes Unseld

[Monte51Coleman]

Another way of looking at it: Shaq played just 15% of his career minutes in Miami.  That's only a little bit more than Jordan played in DC, and both were in a similar state of decline at that point.  Miami's title was all DWade in 2006-2007.  Shaq only played 4 games that postseason, and only 40 games during the regular season.  I don't think the Heat get to claim Shaq any more than the Wizards get to claim Jordan.

Miami's title was in '05-'06 not '06-'07. Shaq only played 4 playoff games in the season following the championship because the team only played 4 games. The Heat were swept by the Bulls that year.

 

You're right though about the Heat not getting to claim him and that's ok. We're more than happy with Alonzo.

[Going Commando]

1.) Celtics by a country mile.

2.) 76ers

3.) Pistons

4.) Bulls

5.) Knicks

6.) Heat

7.) Hawks

8.) Wizards/Bullets

9.) Bucks

10.) Magic

11.) Cavaliers

12.) Pacers

13.) Nets

14.) Raptors

15.) Bobcats

 

The Pacers and Nets are awful for teams that have been around since the 60s.

 

Top 9 all have championships.

 

Bucks history seems better than it really is.  The Oscar they got was at the end of his prime and they lost Kareem to the Lakers, who spent the majority of his career there.  They only get half credit for those players.

 

I give the Pistons the nod over Chicago on depth.  But I can see putting Chicago over Detroit on top end quality.

 

Another way of looking at it: Shaq played just 15% of his career minutes in Miami.  That's only a little bit more than Jordan played in DC, and both were in a similar state of decline at that point.  Miami's title was all DWade in 2006-2007.  Shaq only played 4 games that postseason, and only 40 games during the regular season.  I don't think the Heat get to claim Shaq any more than the Wizards get to claim Jordan.

Miami's title was in '05-'06 not '06-'07. Shaq only played 4 playoff games in the season following the championship because the team only played 4 games. The Heat were swept by the Bulls that year.

 

You're right though about the Heat not getting to claim him and that's ok. We're more than happy with Alonzo.

 

Oh yeah, you're right.  It was 05-06.  My mistake.  Zo is a HoFer IMO, a good consolation.

Edited August 10, 2013 by stevemcqueen1

[Going Commando]

Actually, scratch that.  Chicago should be #3 and Detroit #4.  Having a respectable group on he second team doesn't trump Jordan.

 

Quality is also reflected in the number of championships won.  Chicago has 6 and Detroit has 3.

[CrypticVillain]

Steve, I can't believe you just compiled a starting five for every tab in the league. Well, not everybody. Poor Bobcats

[Going Commando]

Steve, I can't believe you just compiled a starting five for every tab in the league. Well, not everybody. Poor Bobcats

It wasn't hard after I got a system down. I looked up top ten best in franchise history lists for each team and used wikipedia to find all of the retired jerseys and HoFers for each franchise. Most teams had at least a couple of HoFers that were obvious picks.

Then I found this thing on ESPN where they had polls of the all time best at each position for each team. The poll results were definitely biased against older generations of players in most cases, but it was a useful baseline.

The Bobcats were the worst, but they're only just over 10 years old. Look at the Wizards roster, most of the guys came out of the 70's. Pearl, Elvin Hayes, and Wes Unseld. That'd be respectable for any team. But take the 40 years of franchise history after that group and try and make a list out of that and you end up with a group that's barely better than the Bobcats. 40 years of being an NBA wasteland.

[Sticksboi05]

Another way of looking at it: Shaq played just 15% of his career minutes in Miami.  That's only a little bit more than Jordan played in DC, and both were in a similar state of decline at that point.  Miami's title was all DWade in 2006-2007.  Shaq only played 4 games that postseason, and only 40 games during the regular season.  I don't think the Heat get to claim Shaq any more than the Wizards get to claim Jordan.

 

The title was in 2005-06, not 06-07.  And Shaq played all 23 postseason games.  Granted his regular season average of 20/9 was mediocre by his standards as was his 18/10 postseason average...again by his lofty standards.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Sticksboi05

[artmonkforHOF]

Well, looks like my Raptors are in tank mode, trying to win the come-home-Andrew-Wiggins-lottery, but at least they traded that useless 7 foot Italian. Can't believe they actually got picks from the Knicks for him.

I'm hard on the guy, he really can't play D, but could be a great 6 man or first big off the bench & score with the right club, but he cannot be your #1 option on offense, he's not good enough to carry that, and his poor defense makes him a net loss at the position if he gets starter minutes.

As for the tank job, I hope they have a plan B in place, those ping pong balls can be a tricky beast. With all the recent first round Canadian NBA talent, I think the better course is to build a solid team so 2-3 years from now, they can sign an Anthony Bennett, or Tristan Thompson, Corey Joseph would be stupid to leave the Spurs, but they have to assemble a team good enough to make those guys think of signing here.

[artmonkforHOF]

McQueen, your way underselling the Raptors, the only position they are weak for an all time team is SG. Nit much depth at Center, but not uncommon for expansion teams.

PG Damon Stoudamire, Mark Jackson, Jalen Rose

SG Doug Christie, Alvin Williams.Like i said, weak.

SF Vince Carter, he makes list for nets, had better career here. Also T Mac, but only a few years.

PF Bosh, or my fav, Charles Oakley

C- Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis

[Going Commando]

McQueen, your way underselling the Raptors, the only position they are weak for an all time team is SG. Nit much depth at Center, but not uncommon for expansion teams.

PG Damon Stoudamire, Mark Jackson, Jalen Rose

SG Doug Christie, Alvin Williams.Like i said, weak.

SF Vince Carter, he makes list for nets, had better career here. Also T Mac, but only a few years.

PF Bosh, or my fav, Charles Oakley

C- Antonio Davis, Kevin Willis

Carter can qualify for the Raptors too, he played there long enough IMO. Though I think he's enjoyed more success in both New Jersey and Dallas.

But TMac played so little in Toronto and then blew up in Orlando and Houston.

Toronto has had All Stars, but no HoFers. And a common thread is having those All Stars leave once they're no longer under team control in order to go win with other teams. Their history isn't terrible for an expansion team. But stack it against pretty much any other franchise except the Grizzlies and the Bobcats and the quality is much lesser. I'd certainly take the all time line ups of the Heat, Magic, and Hornets over the Raptors, and I'd take the line up of the TWolves over them too.

FWIW, I would like to see Andrew Wiggins go to Toronto too. It'll be tough to get rid of Rudy Gay, but Wiggins would make a nice pair with Terrence Ross and Valalnciunas IMO. The basketball media would hate it. But it'd be interesting. The only problem is your team is too good to finish top three. It's going to need serious lottery luck to jump up that far.

[RonArtest15]

We need a bump here...Season is right around the corner. 

 

Who do you all like as far as (pre) Playoff seedings?

 

East:

 

1.  Miami

2.  Indy

3.  Chicago

4.  Brooklyn

5.  NYK

6.  Washington

7.  Detroit

8.  Cleveland

 

West:

 

 

1.  OKC

2.  Houston

3.  LAC

4.  Memphis

5.  Denver

6.  GS

7.  SAS

8.  Utah

 

Will be fun to look back in a few months....

[Going Commando]

I think we can probably predict the playoff teams with like 80% accuracy. It'd be close to 100 if we could predict injuries. Feels like you make yourself a playoff team in the summer because its all about the quality of players on your roster. The best seasons happen for the teams with the most talented and balanced rosters. That doesn't necessarily happen in the NFL and MLB. There's a lot of magic that goes into a good season there.

East:

1.) Chicago

2.) Miami

3.) Brooklyn

4.) New York

5.) Indiana

6.) Cleveland

7.) Washington

8.) Boston

9.) Milwaukee

10.) Detroit

11.) Atlanta

12.) Charlotte

13.) Toronto

14.) Orlando

15.) Philadelphia

I think teams 6-11 are fairly even and interchangeable. Probably only be a few wins separating them. The top five in the East seem pretty well defined right now.

Orlando and Philly are the only clearly bad teams in the East. The rest of the lottery teams should be competitive.

---------------------

West:

1.) Oklahoma City

2.) San Antonio

3.) Houston

4.) L.A. Clippers

5.) Memphis

6.) L.A. Lakers

7.) Golden State

8.) Portland

9.) Dallas

10.) Minnesota

11.) New Orleans

12.) Denver

13.) Sacramento

14.) Utah

15.) Phoenix

I could see Golden State falling out of the playoffs entirely if Curry gets hurt, which is never far away.

I like Portland. I think they had a sneaky good offseason.

I could see the Grizzlies taking a step back after firing Hollins, but I didn't penalize them for it. Wasn't really sure how it'd play out for them.

I think Denver takes a major step back. They screwed the pooch this offseason.

Kobe's recovery rate is incredible, and I can't count him out yet. I think he and Nash and Pau are the solid foundation for a late seed. A lot does ride on the health on Kobe's health. And Nash's and Kaman's health too.

Be shocked if Sacramento, Phoenix, and Utah are competitive at all.

I think New Orleans is competitive throughout the year, they've got an interesting team, but they're not quite done building yet.

I think Dallas will stay in it for most of the year, and they've got a legit shot at a late seed. They're my first team in if anyone stumbles.

I think Minnesota is right on the cusp and they're my second team in if anyone stumbles.

[Predicto]

We need a bump here...Season is right around the corner. 

 

Who do you all like as far as (pre) Playoff seedings?

 

East:

 

1.  Miami

2.  Indy

3.  Chicago

4.  Brooklyn

5.  NYK

6.  Washington

7.  Detroit

8.  Cleveland

 

West:

 

 

1.  OKC

2.  Houston

3.  LAC

4.  Memphis

5.  Denver

6.  GS

7.  SAS

8.  Utah

 

Will be fun to look back in a few months....

 

 

I'll bite.  The East looks possible, but your West is nutty (to me).  

 

Why would you have Denver ahead of San Antonio or Golden State?  Denver just gutted the team, losing its coach, its GM and its best player (Igoudala), and Galinari will miss most of the season.   Denver will always win a lot at home because of the high altitude, so their record is always a little inflated, but not that much.

 

San Antonio was a single shot away from winning a ring a few months ago.  Yes, they are going to all get old and retire one day, but it hasn't happened yet.  Smartest, best coached team in the league.

 

And why would Utah be on the list at all?   They lost Jefferson and Millsap and Mo WIlliams, and are completely young and untested.   They will struggle to win 30 games this year, but the future is very good.   Minnesota and Dallas will both be much better than Utah this year.

 

Going out on a limb myself, I might look for Portland to jump onto that list, somethere between 5 and 8.

 

I'll go with

 

1) San Antonio

2) Houston

3) Clippers

4) OKC (Westbrook's new injury is devastating and they are not deep)

5) Memphis

6) GS

7) Portland

8) Minnesota (ok, maybe Denver)