Why is it when people die, they get a pass?

[Ryman of the North]

two years ago a teammate of mine died driving drunk, he veered into the other lane narrowly missing a car and then smashed into an abuttment. This teammate had a habit of driving drunk and being an idiot when drunk.

some of my teammates got mad at me for refusing to go to the funeral, I refused for several reasons.

1- I lost my fiancee to a drunk driver when I was young and I have zero tolerance for drunk drivers.

2- the teammate and I were not close, in fact I had punched him out a few weeks prior and since i am not a hypocrite I wasnt gonna attend the funeral of someone I didnt like. thats fake.

3- as a team leader I was asked to say something at the service by a family member, I declined politely as I didnt want to just say " your cousin was an asshat who almost killed innocent people with his own stupidity".

anyway while reading the forum today I noticed that when someone dies they get a pass for anything stupid they may have done as though dying makes it all ok.

Haynesworths brother just died in a vehicle accident, never mind the fact that his brother almost killed someone speeding and has had issues in the past with reckless driving, we are all supposed to just be sorry that he died even though he was seen "driving over a hundred miles an hour and weaving through traffic."

someone said "he made a mistake and now he is dead." I disagree, I think he made a choice not a mistake. I am sorry for his families loss, it is harsh to die that young, but his death wasnt exactly faultless.

I just dont get it. You pay your money and you take your chances.

[Drew_Fl]

i've read a lot of your posts and this is the first i agree with. you are exactly right in your actions. i'm not gonna pass judgement on the haynesworth story b/c i don't know the facts, and frankly it's none of my business. but i do get angry every time i read about a drunk driver causing a fatality, but i can only imagine what you feel.

[Predicto]

Well, I try to give people a pass during the mourning period, out of respect for their families.

After that, I will say what I really think.

[Ryman of the North]

Well, I try to give people a pass during the mourning period, out of respect for their families.

After that, I will say what I really think.

That sounds fair.

[Kosher Ham]

I don't give passes either in situations like that.

I don't understand the last sentence of your OP however.

I won't go to parties or funerals or such for people that I do not like at all. No reason to pretend like we are/were close. No reason at all. I will kindly decline and keep doing my own thing.

[Ryman of the North]

I don't give passes either in situations like that.

I don't understand the last sentence of your OP however.

I won't go to parties or funerals or such for people that I do not like at all. No reason to pretend like we are/were close. No reason at all. I will kindly decline and keep doing my own thing.

its something merv says when people whine about life not being fair or about how things didnt go the way you want them to. It means in life just like in gambling, you pay your money and you take your chances so there is no point in whining when things dont go your way.

People tend to think that life is like a story and they are the star, everything is supposed to be fair and above board and nothing truly bad ever happens, but I tend to be darker and think that if anything life is a black comedy in which not only does nobody get out alive but nothing is ever truly fair. If you dont take chances you dont get anywhere but if you take stupid chances eventually it catches up to you.

[Destino]

Frankly because most people have the good sense not to speak ill of the dead because it's considered terribly rude. What you're failing to consider is that you can't hurt the dead. They're gone. You can believe what you want about where they go but they aren't with us any longer. The people of concern after someone passes away are those hurt by their passing. We focus on the positive for them because regardless of how we might have felt in our limited view of a human life, they are suffering and adding to that suffering by pulling a self righteous attitude is kicking people at their weakest.

Also you should consider that passing judgment on a human being based on something like "they were speeding" is frankly ridiculous. We've all made bad decisions at one point. A lot of us will die as a result of one bad choice or another. That doesn't define a human life however does it? Eating too much fatty crap doesn't negate a man that may have been a good father and husband. If you really stop to think about it outside of your closest friends and family members you really don't know a whole hell of a lot. Passing judgment from that point of view in my faith is dangerous so I avoid it. I try to see the positive in people and in life, it's a choice I made that I'm happy with.

[thebluefood]

Well, I try to give people a pass during the mourning period, out of respect for their families.

After that, I will say what I really think.

This is how I see it.

[Special K]

I think people who are so harshly judgemental, particularly in the immediate aftermath of a tragedy are massive, arrogant jerks.

I have had a relative killed in a drunk driving accident a few years back (not her fault). It was God awful to go through, yes. But the man who killed her went through our justice system and was put into jail. I still thinik about it from time to time, but realize that getting mad will eat me up inside and in the end, God is going to be the one judging his heart and deciding his ultimate fate.

My senior year in high school, my childhood friend (all the kids in our families grew up as babies together) was killed on his motorcycle. I think he was 21 or 22,. did the exact same thing as Haynesworth's brother, speeding over 100 MPH and ran head first into an older couple's car coming around a corner. Thankfully, they were unharmed, but Logan was killed on impact. It was the WORST funeral I've ever been to. Yes, Logan was yooung, he screwed up...but it's not HIM you are going to support at a funeral. It's his grief-stricken family. You go to tell them how sorry you are and how much he meant to you. It's something you do for his loved ones...because I'm sure his loved ones weren't the ones telling him "hey, it's a brilliant idea to go over 100 mph, swerving between cars and hit one head on and get killed." They're crushed. I think it's extremely selfish to not show up and support them during this dark time in their lives.

[Sticksboi05]

a) During the initial period, I think you only worry about the fact that someone died too young. Nothing wrong with that.

After that, criticism is fair.

Just because you died doesn't excuse you from being an idiot. It's sad when people die too young but enough with the "we all make mistakes" stuff. A mistake is lying to your parents or stealing a bike because you couldn't afford one or making a dirty play in a soccer game because you were pissed. Drunk driving or speeding at 100 mph is not a "mistake", it is stupidity and sadly, sometimes you learn the very hard way.

That said, that can wait until the initial grieving period is over. The family doesn't deserve to have to hear that kind of stuff. I'd bet 99% they are thinking in the back of their heads, "why in the world would he do that? I thought we taught him better."

[Smoot Point Really]

I think you should show mercy to the reposed, so you will be shown mercy...

[Mooka]

They're dead. They don't get squat.

Your problem is with the living.

[Special K]

a) During the initial period, I think you only worry about the fact that someone died too young. Nothing wrong with that.

After that, criticism is fair.

Just because you died doesn't excuse you from being an idiot. It's sad when people die too young but enough with the "we all make mistakes" stuff. A mistake is lying to your parents or stealing a bike because you couldn't afford one or making a dirty play in a soccer game because you were pissed. Drunk driving or speeding at 100 mph is not a "mistake", it is stupidity and sadly, sometimes you learn the very hard way.

That said, that can wait until the initial grieving period is over. The family doesn't deserve to have to hear that kind of stuff. I'd bet 99% they are thinking in the back of their heads, "why in the world would he do that? I thought we taught him better."

Just because some mistakes have harsher consquences than others, does not make them still mistakes. Now, someone develops a patterns of mistakes, then there is a major problem.

[Prosperity]

For most people I think the real damage is to their family, also they aren't around to defend themselves, also WTF is the point?

I'll make an exception for politicians. The corrupt among them should have their image destroyed for all following generations, collateral damage to their family is acceptable for the greater good.

[THEREALTOR1]

Judge not, lest ye be judged...

It's a very difficult way to to live, not judging others. You and I have been raised our entire lives to make decisions based upon making judgements upon those around us. But in the end it wont matter what you or I think, nor will the judgements of those we've judged...

100

[polywog999]

The thing that Is lost here is that In almost all religion's, It is considered a virtue to not speak Ill of the departed. Most people tend to honor this, regardless of what the person did.

[10fttall]

A couple of things: first, the forum makes all the difference. If the person was a major tool, and you weren't very close, maybe it's best not to go to the funeral. It would certainly be in bad taste to make your feelings known in that setting, or to unknowingly let it slip while talking around the friends and family. In other forums such as public discussions of news stories, I think it is fine to say what you think. He was stupid and we're lucky he didn't take anybody along with him. There has to be some condemnation somewhere. If it's not while the story is a hot issue, then what will happen to the audience? The audience I'm referring to are people who like to get loaded and drive, or pop pills, or just like to drive around at 120 mph, or drive motorcycles like they are morons. It's not that being all consoling will encourage them...but seeing comments on the stupidity and the pain it causes, MIGHT just come back into their mind next time they're about to act the fool. If you were to wait until a while after the incident, the moment's gone. Where's the audience? Not reading that news story any more, that's for sure.

Another related question is how bad does someone's mistake have to be before we can criticize? What if they take out a family? What if they shoot up their workplace? These are just mistakes, right? And we've all made mistakes, right? :doh: And it might come back to haunt us? Well, I'm shaking over that one. If I ever drive while I'm loaded and kill myself, people might say bad things about me? Is that the message? I hope they would. That would be incredibly selfish and stupid of me. It's not a mistake, it's a choice. It's a choice that you can't make and expect to live very long. It's not like eating too many french fries either. You will be around much longer, and chances are slim to none that you'll kill a bunch of other people in the process.

[Sticksboi05]

Just because some mistakes have harsher consquences than others, does not make them still mistakes. Now, someone develops a patterns of mistakes, then there is a major problem.

You make a CHOICE to go 100 mph or drive hammered. It wasn't a mistake or accident. It's an intentional decision. It's not a split second decision either. There is ample time to think about the consequences and by the age we are talking about you'd think you would've seen enough examples to make you realize it's a bad idea.

[Bubble Screen]

That sounds fair.

I'm not gonna pile on you for missing the funeral. If that's the way you believe, then so be it.

But from reading your posts, you seem to have anger management issues, bro. You're always talking about punching someone out. What's the deal with you getting into so many fights?

[Ryman of the North]

I actually rarely get into physical confrontations anymore.

The confrontation I had with the teammate was actually sort of funny. I was the DC on our team and he was a second string safety, all season he was whining about how I wouldnt let him start (he wasnt terrible but not as good as the starter)every tues and thursday after practice we would go to our sponsor pub and eat wings, he would get drunk and then rave about how our defence was too simple (even though we were ranked #1 at the time). I would ignore him. he would get drunk and drive home despite several teammates asking him not to.

anyway long story short we went to watch an opponenets game and during the game he started swearing and screaming at the other team while sitting with us. I asked him to stop and he just laughed and got worse. a lady with some small children asked him to stop swearing and he started swearing at her. I warned him if he didnt stop I would take him outside and teach him some manners. Nobody took it seriously because as big as I am I rarely if ever displayed my more aggressive side around my teammates except on the field so they were shocked when he didnt stop. and I took him outside and gave him a few lessons in percussive attitude adjustment.

Where I am from physical confrontations are normal, in northern alberta people dont run for a lawyer when things get interesting, so I have noticed that people from down south are always shocked when I am willing to back up words with actions. I was taught if you arent willing to back up what you say then dont say it. its quite different where I live now. I have had tough guys get up in my face expecting some pokey chest and big words, its almost amusing the look on their faces when the bluff gets called. most back down pretty fast, but some need a quick physics lesson.

I wouldnt say I have any issues with aggression, I dont seek out confrontations I just dont really avoid them. My old job involved them a lot (security in hospitals and over seas as a personal security consultant, doorman security advisor etc etc.)

as for the funeral I didnt go and wouldnt go again.

as for the haynesworth brother thing? IMHO its not a mistake in the way that mistakes are something you do unintentionally, he didnt intend to die but he sure intended to ride his motor bike like an idiot.

[Destino]

You make a CHOICE to go 100 mph or drive hammered. It wasn't a mistake or accident. It's an intentional decision. It's not a split second decision either. There is ample time to think about the consequences and by the age we are talking about you'd think you would've seen enough examples to make you realize it's a bad idea.

People make bad decisions all the time. I didn't realize that suddenly this was enough to trash them immediately after their passing. For your sake I hope you die of natural causes and make all the right decisions needed to get you there.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:1

[Teller]

If I had died everytime I'd done something stupid in my life, especially when I was young, all of my nine lives would be gone; and then some.

I suspect I'm not alone.

I wonder sometimes why some people are taken, and others are allowed to live; despite making similar mistakes. My personal feeling is that God has a plan, and it will always be executed. It works for me.

[NavyDave]

Ryman of the North

With me agreeing with you, does that mean I'm going to develop a love for snow, museums and curling or you will have a discover a distaste of Soccer as well as a love of American bacon to go with Canadian breakfast ham??

ps finishing a sentence with an "eh?" is always better than finishing with an "over here."

[Sticksboi05]

People make bad decisions all the time. I didn't realize that suddenly this was enough to trash them immediately after their passing. For your sake I hope you die of natural causes and make all the right decisions needed to get you there.

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." - Matthew 7:1

I never said it was ok to do it right after they died did I?

Let's go back to post #10 on page one where I wrote quote:

a) During the initial period, I think you only worry about the fact that someone died too young. Nothing wrong with that.

After that, criticism is fair.

Just because you died doesn't excuse you from being an idiot. It's sad when people die too young but enough with the "we all make mistakes" stuff. A mistake is lying to your parents or stealing a bike because you couldn't afford one or making a dirty play in a soccer game because you were pissed. Drunk driving or speeding at 100 mph is not a "mistake", it is stupidity and sadly, sometimes you learn the very hard way.

That said, that can wait until the initial grieving period is over. The family doesn't deserve to have to hear that kind of stuff. I'd bet 99% they are thinking in the back of their heads, "why in the world would he do that? I thought we taught him better."

[#98QBKiller]

Well, I try to give people a pass during the mourning period, out of respect for their families.

After that, I will say what I really think.

I agree and I think this is how it goes for 99 percent of people. Ryman is confusing respect for the mourning process with "getting a pass."