HTTR24-7:Film Sessions: Third and Long Offense VS Tampa Bay

The Redskins offense is a lot of things this season but good on third and long is not one of them. Third and long is typically where rookie Quarterbacks make the most mistakes and those mistakes are often costly. There is a small percentage of people who think " Robert Griffin III is not good on third downs" and well that is just not the case. After reviewing the film I think it is clear the coaches are not putting him in risky situations and RG3 is making very good decisions with the football.

Read More: http://httr24-7.com/?p=2912

Thanks for this. People tend to overlook why it wasn't possible to get the first. It's easier to blame the receiver for running a short route, the qb for taking the dump off, or the playcalling. It's true that third and long is the one thing stopping this team and if they can minimise them on offense, they will become a real powerhouse. Easiest way to do this is discipline to cut out the penalties. Sacks happen, as do failures on first and second down. It felt to me though that a stuffed run or incomplete pass on first down would be followed by more of the same on second down in the second half of last week's game. Is that a fair assessment?

Great stuff LL.

Really loving these breakdowns man.

Great info. Thanks for sharing......

HTTR

Thanks LL. Sometimes a punt isn't a bad thing. Unless it gets blocked.

Wow, again this is amazing. You do a great job breaking down the plays so that everyone can understand exactly what's going on. I bet I could show this to my wife who is completely uninterested and even she would understand it That was suppose to be a compliment - i do hope it comes off that way!

Thanks for this. People tend to overlook why it wasn't possible to get the first. It's easier to blame the receiver for running a short route, the qb for taking the dump off, or the playcalling. It's true that third and long is the one thing stopping this team and if they can minimise them on offense, they will become a real powerhouse. Easiest way to do this is discipline to cut out the penalties. Sacks happen, as do failures on first and second down. It felt to me though that a stuffed run or incomplete pass on first down would be followed by more of the same on second down in the second half of last week's game. Is that a fair assessment?

The team came out the second half content and trying to grind the clock. Skins used more of the traditional offense on first down runs with little success like you stated. Tape show we are a better run team out of the pistol than under center.

---------- Post added October-5th-2012 at 02:24 AM ----------

appreciate everyone's comments

Always a great read LL!!! Really appreciate it!!!

Great stuff. Thank you.

The team came out the second half content and trying to grind the clock. Skins used more of the traditional offense on first down runs with little success like you stated. Tape show we are a better run team out of the pistol than under center.

I am not a fan of slowing down for the second half. Happened far too often during the Gibbs II era and led to nervous victories and heartbreaking losses alike. I appreciate the need to grind the clock, but if a team has managed to put up, say, 21 points in a half, there's no reason to doubt your opponent can't do the same. By all means, ease off part way through the 4th depending on how big the lead is, but it's so important to play 4 quarters (the only time so far this season the Skins appear to have done this is in the Saints game - I suspect they will need to do this for the Falcons).

In a way, it surprises me a bit. Was it not Mike who refused to play prevent D against the Packers in their Superbowl matchup because what they had been doing on defense had worked all game and that was a good enough reason not to change it?

kind of hard to tell where the cornerback was going but that first play looks like robert should have taken off to the left since the receivers ran to the right which cleared out the left side of the field

Its hard to pinpoint how/why the passing game doesn't convert more 3rd +7s.

And this lack of efficiency isn't new to this year.

Imo part of the problem is style of offense we're playing while highly explosive is hit or miss. (especially in the read option game)

Negative or no gain plays on 1st down puts the offense behind 'schedule' and is more likely to lead to a third and long.

So the first part of the equation like LL said is to decrease the frequency of third and long by being more efficient on 1st down.

Which to me = run more on 1st down but 1st down defenses are often the best chance to create chunk or explosive plays in the passing game.

So there is a trade off more efficieny? Or more chunk yardage?......

But in away the above is besides the point because 3rd and +7 are going to happen they're an unavoidable eventuality.

I think the long term answer is to turn Griffin lose and allow him to attack with the passing game in 3rd and long situations.

Kyle is using Griffin in a very structured and protected but effective offense.

In many 3rd and long situations Kyle doesn't attack the way some other OC's would and Griffin decision making imo reflects that safe mindset.

When/if Kyle begins to transition the passing game to more rhythm spread shotgun passing, Griffin will become more comfortable and find a rhythm in attack defenses that way we'll see the rate of 3rd and long conversions increase.

Great analysis by the OP. Thank you.

When the post and fly routes are covered either man-to-man or zone, a really good QB-WR tandem would thread the needle on 3rd down. We see it with Manning and Brady. And when a team has really tall receivers like Tampa does, the QB can simply throw the ball high where its a safer catch. Perhaps not so much down the middle, but certainly near the sidelines.

Our WR are not tall enough and Hank isn't experienced enough to win one-on-one battles. RG3 probably isn't confident enough in himself and his WRs to make a pinpoint accurate throw under pressure into single coverage.

When RG3 and the receivers build that confidence, this problem will get a lot easier. I saw RG3 throw consistently to the open receiver, as he should. Unfortunately, that open receiver on 3rd down is well shy of the 1st down marker. Same issue in the red zone except the endzone is closer so RG3 can use his legs to run it in himself.

We need a much taller and more aggressive receiver opposite Garcon to help us in 3rd down situations and the end zone. Speedy would be a bonus.

I am not a fan of slowing down for the second half. Happened far too often during the Gibbs II era and led to nervous victories and heartbreaking losses alike. I appreciate the need to grind the clock, but if a team has managed to put up, say, 21 points in a half, there's no reason to doubt your opponent can't do the same. By all means, ease off part way through the 4th depending on how big the lead is, but it's so important to play 4 quarters (the only time so far this season the Skins appear to have done this is in the Saints game - I suspect they will need to do this for the Falcons).

In a way, it surprises me a bit. Was it not Mike who refused to play prevent D against the Packers in their Superbowl matchup because what they had been doing on defense had worked all game and that was a good enough reason not to change it?

I have to agree with you. I don't think we're aggressive enough with 2 minutes left in the first half, but we seem to be aggressive the last 2 minutes of the 2nd half when we're down. I don't like to grind out wins either by going conservative. You're right, we did that WAY too much under Gibbs. I'd like to see us close teams out more. 1:57 left in the first half, I would have loved to see RG3 run the two minute drill and try to get a TD. At 28-6, the game would have been over, then you could play keep away in the 2nd half.

Thanks LL. Becoming one of my favorite threads. Keep 'em coming. As good as the offense has been, one can only imagine when they improve on third down efficiency how exciting it will be to watch. It's amazing we are with a ROOKIE QB. It's only going to get better.

In this view it seems that Davis is slightly coming open over the middle of the field but to me that looks like a risky throw. Could you make the case that ball would be completed, of course but to me that is a low percentage pass. The ball would have to be perfect imo to clear the Lbs and arrive before the safety

We can only speculate on Kyle's intent or instructions to Griff on this play.

Maybe Griff was instructed to play it safe with the checkdown trying to gain some yards for a FG attempt? or Maybe it was Griff's on decision after going through his progressions.

But, my take on this play is:

there was a clean pocket and Griff had clear field vision, he should know they're in tampa-2

Ronde is the key zone defender along with the MLB

But Ronde breaks on Hankerson's route prior to Griffin releasing the ball:

If Griffin waits a couple of nano seconds longer he has a nice alley to throw to Davis-

My speculation is that if Griffin begins his progression with his eyes to the left reading/glancing quickly from the go route to Moss to Paul to Hankerson it would help get Davis more open against that coverage

Love it, love it, love it!

I agree strongly with putting the pedal down and not letting up.

When the Patriots were up by 30 and still went for it on fourth down, I hated them for it. But they won the game. That's what we need to do.

This is a throw I would like to see Griffin makes.

We can only speculate on Kyle's intent or instructions to Griff on this play.

Maybe Griff was instructed to play it safe with the checkdown trying to gain some yards for a FG attempt? or Maybe it was Griff's on decision after going through his progressions.

But, my take on this play is:

there was a clean pocket and Griff had clear field vision, he should know they're in tampa-2

Ronde is the key zone defender along with the MLB

But Ronde breaks on Hankerson's route prior to Griffin releasing the ball:

http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/58/067cbb6fb1b84961a5747be136b6416d/l.jpg

If Griffin waits a couple of nano seconds longer he has a nice alley to throw to Davis-

My speculation is that if Griffin begins his progression with his eyes to the left reading/glancing quickly from the go route to Moss to Paul to Hankerson it would help get Davis more open against that coverage

I still think that is a tough throw like I wrote in the op. I think Griff could complete it but not a high percentage pass imo. Ronde does look like he is taking Hankersons route but just him coming down 2-3 steps makes the throw harder. Tough to throw a bullet with Ronde in that area, too much touch on it and the safety catches a fly ball.

I still think that is a tough throw like I wrote in the op. I think Griff could complete it but not a high percentage pass imo. Ronde does look like he is taking Hankersons route but just him coming down 2-3 steps makes the throw harder. Tough to throw a bullet with Ronde in that area, too much touch on it and the safety catches a fly ball.

Griff could wait for Ronder to clear while Davis gets his head around crosses face of Baron while slide up in/through the pocket.

He can't float it up in there either, its got to be an up and down throw w/ a lil heat on it.

EDIT: for a really open throwing lane he could pump to Hankerson then shoot it in there to Davis

Its not like I'm expecting Griff to thread the needle like this throw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYBW85XuxcQ

But, that's a fairly routine route and throw vs cover-2/tampa-2.

In general though the 3rd downs we looked at Kyle didn't seem to attack the coverage with his playcall nor ask Griffin to attack to the coverage.

On the whole it seems like the 3rd down play calls are safe, too safe imo.

great post! my only request is that you allow the images to be bigger

Great breakdown.

Where do yo get this game tape to review?