NYSkins1 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I generally like Danny. He's a great businessman, and he's learning more and more about football. I'm amazed that he's able to keep a profitable organization even after these several losing seasons (mind you, he has the most loyal fan base in the NFL to work with). I'd like to see him be a bit more involved with the actual team, though. There's a big contrast between seeing him in his luxury box with a bottle of Aquafina during the game and seeing Arthur Blank walk down onto the field at the end of Falcons games to congratulate Mora and the players. I really don't have any problem with Danny, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manichispanic Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 how many other owners have their fanst opimistic for a superbowl. Dont know many Arizona fans that have said they have a legit shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselPwr44 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 (Owens and Kearse)Both were brought in to help push the Eagles over the edge. After how many years of being a "bridesmaid and not the bride"? It's been no secret as to what's held Philly back the past 3-4 years yet it took that long for Lurie to spend the cash to fix it. Art's post was spot on in his judgement of Lurie. You know it too Number5 but your green and silver glasses keep you from admitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 he is human, as long as he makes wiser decisions, i'll be there right along with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hog Lover Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 none of the options exactly captured my feelings. I've been a big Synder fan since he came in. For some reason I liked his story of coming from nothing to being a billionaire and buying the Redskins for the purpose of doing whatever it took to get us back to glory. He isn't afraid to open his pocketbook to do moves that mostly look like good moves at the time. His moves have blown up in his face and he has overreacted to correct mistakes, but in the end I am still a fan. He never fails to do whatever he can to bring us back to glory. Now he has brought in Joe Gibbs and is being hands off mostly, which is what now seems to be the best way to win. I would much rather have Synder than most of the other owners in the NFL. No one can ever say that he didn't do what the fans wanted or that he didn't try to build up the franchise that he had loved since childhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERIC THE REDskinsfan Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I voted: Yes, Snyder is a good owner who's made mistakes, but in the end is of benefit to the team. No question about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNut73 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 Ok buddy....... You want to say that the Eagles haven't paid for outside talent........we did.....we took your current number 3 or 4 receiver and made him into a key component in our offense.......we took back our MLB who we "rented" to your team and re-birthed his career as well as our "vaunted" defense. We have even went as far as to take the top 2 free agents at their positions and made them feel so welcome in this city that not only are they two of the most popular players in Philly, but the entire NFL. Okay # 5...I have a serious question for you. Do you think the Eagles would have already won a Super Bowl if Lurie had spent money on a WR 2 or 3 years ago? I'm not talking break the bank type money...but something that would have yielded a better receiver than Pinkston/Thrash/Mitchell. Would they already be holding a Super Bowl trophy? I think they would have. I think a couple of years ago you guys were SO CLOSE that a decent WR would have pushed you over the edge. I blame that on Lurie and your front office. As the media portrays Snyder as a cash machine, they also portray Lurie as a cheapskate. Philadelphia has proven through the years that this city is really where it is at.......free agents want to come here......old team mates want to return....rookies dream of playing here...... This is actually funny. I got a laugh out of this. And we owe it to Jeffy........why? Cause he built them to be a respectable organization that competes year in and year out with the ultimate goal of bringing a championship to the city of brotherly love. Yea, but so far you've fallen short of the goal...while you are closer to the goal then we are...he's still failed to bring that title you covet so much. Believe me...I'm no fan of Snyder as you can see from my earlier post in this thread...but I'm certainly not ready to annoint Lurie as the best owner either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 hard to hate a guy that's a fan & wants to win,& spends oodles every year trying but he's made some bad mistakes.. playing fantasy football with smith & sanders & george.. should have aloud norv to finish the yr before firing him.1 more win & we made the playoffs. canning marty for spurrier...we were 8-3 & heading in the right direction imo.. hiring SOS..enough said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by skinsanity56 hard to hate a guy that's a fan & wants to win,& spends oodles every year trying but he's made some bad mistakes.. playing fantasy football with smith & sanders & george.. should have aloud norv to finish the yr before firing him.1 more win & we made the playoffs. canning marty for spurrier...we were 8-3 & heading in the right direction imo.. hiring SOS..enough said.. Wayne, I think a secondary issue from this thread that deserves further comment is the thought you express here that we were heading in the right direction with Marty. Do you actually remember anything more than 8-3 from that season? I'm asking if you remember WHAT happened and how it happened. Do you recall Marty completely overhauling the offense and defense because of a player meeting that led to a large rebellion against him? Marty had very few players in his corner. The unifying force that allowed 8-3 to even be possible was the team gelling around hatred of Marty. Smartly Marty fed into that. But, that's a one-time thing. We weren't heading in the right direction at all because the direction taken was hatred of the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Philadelphia has proven through the years that this city is really where it is at.......free agents want to come here......old team mates want to return....rookies dream of playing here...... I agree with SkinsNut73 freakin' hilarious :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Lurie's main contribution was hiring Andy Reid. Crious was the Linc built with Lurie's money or tax payers? Snyder bought Fed-Ex, but has made any upgrades out of his own pockets. Has Lurie come up with anything to benefit the NFL? Snyder's has with the commercial press conference screen... that has generated revenue for all teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Hard to believe Number5 actually said that about Philly. We all know 31 teams in the league get the free agents we don't want. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoyler23 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I think he's learned a lot from the last 5 'trial and error' type of years. His ability to go after free agents will always help the team on paper, but this experience will only make things better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Art Marty had very few players in his corner. The unifying force that allowed 8-3 to even be possible was the team gelling around hatred of Marty. Smartly Marty fed into that. But, that's a one-time thing. We weren't heading in the right direction at all because the direction taken was hatred of the coach. Art, let's suppose your assessment is accurate ... or accurate enough. (What might have been true at midseason might have faded by season's end.) Suppose then that the team drafted a QB #1. Let's call that QB Patrick Ramsey. And with Marty running the draft, you figure we don't go Betts, Bauman and Russell with the next three picks. For fun, let's say WR Antwaan Randal El (2nd round), RB Brian Westbrook (3rd round), and DE Alex Brown (3rd round). So now you've got a team with Stephen Davis and Ramsey in the backfield, Brian Westbrook backing up Davis, Randal El and Gardner at WR, and Alex Brown at DE ... run by a coach who finished 8-3 with Davis and Tony Banks in the backfield, and Gardner and Westbrook at WR. Give Ramsey a year to develop ... struggling a bit, but still finishing 9-7 as a rookie (together with Banks). So Marty trades back in the draft and picks up Eric Steinbach at guard and Al Johnson at center to help out up front ... with continued strong OL coaching by Russ Grimm. All this was very possible. Marty showed himself to be quite effective at both the draft and cap management. This team could have been extremely strong ... verging on dominant ... closing out 2003 at least 10-6, maybe 11-5. Maybe somewhere in this history Russ Grimm becomes offensive coordinator, taking over for Jimmy Raye. You point to the mutiny under Marty. I won't dispute it, but that mutiny had complex causes ... not least of which was Marty's decision to break the team to his will. Breaking people isn't an end. It's a means to an end. It can be the first step into making boys into men. Dramatists call this the end of Act I ... not the end of the play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan Give Ramsey a year to develop ... struggling a bit, but still finishing 9-7 as a rookie (together with Banks). So Marty trades back in the draft and picks up Eric Steinbach at guard and Al Johnson at center to help out up front ... with continued strong OL coaching by Russ Grimm. Maybe somewhere in this history Russ Grimm becomes offensive coordinator, taking over for Jimmy Raye. Dramatists call this the end of Act I ... not the end of the play. One key thing. Russ Grimm was let go by Marty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by SkinsHokieFan One key thing. Russ Grimm was let go by Marty Note to self: when the voice in your head says you should look up a date, listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just skins baby Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I will say this about Snyder, he has been awfully quiet this year. I don't remember the camera crews focusing on his box as much this year as in other years. He has earned his rep as a free spender and the writers will never let us forget, because in every column he is called "free-spending owner Dan Snyder". So, rightfully, Len Pasquarelli has earned his rep as a dumb fat a$$, Peter Queen is the same and why anybody would read anything from those idiots at SI is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomadskin11 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Danny is a true and real fan of the team he owns. Danny has made that team a business powerhouse. That business provides him with the money to get what the coaches want when they need it. And... Danny is young. If we're going to be peeved at him for mistakes caused by impatience to win now aka over-exuberance resulting in high coach-and-player turnover, we would be making the same mistake we accuse him of. We would be the ones acting rashly on a win now impulse. Clearly he's not going to win now as an owner. But he will win. The foundation is in place - he loves the team, he wants to win, and he knows how set up the business so that he can carry these wishes out. He's already showing the beginnings of understanding the delicate balance between the desire to win and the need for patience and humility. When Danny is 60, he will have won Superbowls, maintained a massively profitable business, and will still be the owner who really just loves the Skins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince62 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 spending is good...eh? just like that? how about spending smart? how about dem Pats? how many seasons at the top? six? how many winning seasons? when, exactly, does accountability kick in? he makes money. he spends money. he really wants to win. is that the best folks can come up with? in my book he is a wash: good and bad. he's smart enough to realize he seriously botched matters and needed to be rescued by Joe Gibbs. He has kept the team solvent - partially on the backs of his fans - and made a nice penny to boot. He has finally wised up and decided to stay out of the limelight. He is loyal to his cronies (Vinny). he's the cats meow! except he has yet to win. I know..."It'll come." He's not terribly charismatic. He's reviled around the league and in the media (sic an embarrassment at times); not the boss of choice for a large swath of employees. this is America - once the team moves into the playoffs and advances all will be forgiven; his flaws and screwups obliterated; his human failings minimized. so, in the end....who cares? just win Danny boy and all else will be forgiven. JUST WIN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 There has been, and remains, only one real concern for me about Snyder ... his apparent desire to not simply own the team, but to be an integral part of the daily football operations as well. To the extent that he seems to have removed himself from that equation since the Gibbs hire, limiting his involvement to recruitment of players Gibbs/Cerrato tap and subsequent salary negotiations, I'm happy (though I worry sometimes he is still so competitive that he'll overpay to get someone---Brunell?---simply to blow other teams out of the water and further his well-earned rep as a closer). Were I Snyder, I'd sure as hell want to be involved in the footbal stuff too ... I understand that. But hopefully, someone would gently remind me from time to time that one doesn't become a "football guy" in a few short years simply by buying a team, immersing yourself in its operations, and wanting to real, real bad. He may grow to become a great football guy one day. He certainly seems to have the passion and smarts for it. I just hope he's willing to quiet his desire to be that guy for long enough to: 1) let real football people---who to his credit he's now hired and is apparently letting have full control---do the football stuff necessary to turn this ship around, and 2) appreciate that it doesn't take 5 or even 10 years to get to the point where you're a truly viable NFL-level talent and on-field systemic evaluator ... it takes a professional lifetime. The man's desire to win has never been in question. What had started to become a question for me, right up until last January, was just how much of the "credit" he personally wanted for the football decisions part of that. I want my owner to "own." As long as he stays the course he started last January, and keeps learning the ropes in everything from cap management to customer relations, while leaving the down and dirty football stuff to the very best football people he can hire ... he gets an A from me. A qualified A, to be sure. But an A nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 We all know that Danny boy has made some mistakes. He's tried to go out and get buy a super bowl by buying up all the "stars" and we all know to well how that worked out. But other than that look at what he has done. He's gotten every player and coach that his head coach has ever wanted. I think that Snyder would do anything to see the Redskins return to glory, and I think that is a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 12, 2005 Author Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan Art, let's suppose your assessment is accurate ... or accurate enough. (What might have been true at midseason might have faded by season's end.) Suppose then that the team drafted a QB #1. Let's call that QB Patrick Ramsey. And with Marty running the draft, you figure we don't go Betts, Bauman and Russell with the next three picks. For fun, let's say WR Antwaan Randal El (2nd round), RB Brian Westbrook (3rd round), and DE Alex Brown (3rd round). So now you've got a team with Stephen Davis and Ramsey in the backfield, Brian Westbrook backing up Davis, Randal El and Gardner at WR, and Alex Brown at DE ... run by a coach who finished 8-3 with Davis and Tony Banks in the backfield, and Gardner and Westbrook at WR. Give Ramsey a year to develop ... struggling a bit, but still finishing 9-7 as a rookie (together with Banks). So Marty trades back in the draft and picks up Eric Steinbach at guard and Al Johnson at center to help out up front ... with continued strong OL coaching by Russ Grimm. All this was very possible. Marty showed himself to be quite effective at both the draft and cap management. This team could have been extremely strong ... verging on dominant ... closing out 2003 at least 10-6, maybe 11-5. Maybe somewhere in this history Russ Grimm becomes offensive coordinator, taking over for Jimmy Raye. You point to the mutiny under Marty. I won't dispute it, but that mutiny had complex causes ... not least of which was Marty's decision to break the team to his will. Breaking people isn't an end. It's a means to an end. It can be the first step into making boys into men. Dramatists call this the end of Act I ... not the end of the play. ASF, I won't let myself climb out on the imagination quite as far as you like. I do not believe the players you mentioned would have been targeted here. Further, a guy like Westbrook would have served no use in the TYPE of system we were running here. Betts was a far more likely choice, but, neither really was necessary because the most likely bit of imagination was Davis would have remained here. The fact that Marty DIDN'T break the team to his will is what ended him here. The team broke Marty to THEIR will. The team united and said they needed to do different things and Marty caved. That's what happened defensively and that's what happened offensively. When you have the tail wagging the dog in this way, you can't succeed over time, without getting a new dog. Now, I had no particular problem with Marty as a GM, but I think it's a bit off to declare he showed himself well in the draft and with the cap. In the draft he selected Gardner, Smoot, Sage, McCants and Monds. Now, I happen to LIKE Gardner, but you don't, and absent that like, given McCants has shown nothing, only Smoot is a player of note. That's not great drafting. As for cap management, I'd argue Marty showed well there either. He made dramatic cuts and took a major swallow of dead money by choice, leaving almost $30 million of budgeted money unused. Again, I had no real issue with Marty deciding to take a year like this as part of a greater plan he never got to utilize. But, one could argue this is not a great sign of good cap management either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budski Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Om I agree a once very good CO of a ship I was on said to me that the Chiefs, Petty officers, and Nonrates to the real job and I let them do it. My job as the CO is head cheerleader. I think Dan is learning to be a very good owner. Hey he made some boneheaded pickups in the past, but the fact he went out and tried to get the best is in fact a tribute to his desire to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FBChick Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I voted number 4.. though it doesn't quite accurately express my opinion, but it's the closest. I don't for a second doubt Snyder's heart or desire to make the team a winner or his willingness to spend money the money to get there. But if this was all that there was to making a successful football team, believe me, we'd have a ton of other teams in similar situations. Being an owner should be, no, HAS to be more then this. It has to be about removing the fan inside you and making the tough calls. Even admitting to ones own shortcomings (ie.. not knowing enough about football to hire a coach or build a team). It HAS to be about knowing when to shut that wallet for the good of the team and the future of the franchise. It about learning balance and paitence, as a sports frachise and a successful business are actually two different breeds. It's about realizing the action going around in the stadium and the back office operations are going to have a carry over effect to the team on the field. I think Snyder still has the problems of viewing the team and team type operations through the eyes of a fan and not an owner. In, my opinion, He has soo far failed in his ability to surround himself with successful football types to help guide him more soundly, in decisions like GM and Head Coach. I can hire guys for large amounts of money, but if I haven't put in the time and effort to ensure they are a worth while purchases (ie schotty) or not likely to bolt at the first signs of pressure (ie Spurrier) then I have made the gravest of mistakes. The amount I pay a guy does not ensure he is a good coach/ manager/ player. The amount of money and time I spend researching my choices, to ensure they are the right choices will make this much more so. This is what I haven't seen. I've seen a choice of Spurrier as an almost gut reaction to try to bring in the best of the best with out fully considering all the ramifications. EVen Gibbs, as much as I am a HUGE fan and belive he can do a lot of good for this organization, I still feel was more one of a reaction of a fan then one of a smart owner. Gibbs can not be viewed as a real long term solution. Many here even admit to thinking he may not even fulfill his entire contract which is only of 5 years. What then? I would have rather seen him playing smart, interviewing SEVERAL canidates, and then deciding Gibbs was the best avaliable option.. but that didn't happen did it. He spent all his time wooing Gibb out of retirement, placing all his eggs in one basket and then he will be back to square one if it doesn't work out. I always get the same feeling when it comes to players. He lets the knee jerk reactions go through. Get Brunell and we can win now, or stick with Ramsey and we can win next year. I never get the feeling that this team is really looking towards the future. Gibbs has us looking towards the short term future, which as a coach I believe should be the case... but I still don't have a good feeling about the long term, where we will go post Gibbs. And while I don't believe Cap hell is upon us, you have to honestly admit that if we continue at the pace we've been going, we will get there and be required to gut a team. I have hope for the team in the short term because of Gibbs.. but I still have fears about what happens when Gibbs walks a way again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 A year ago, you ask me the same question and I tell you that Danny sucks, he needs to butt the hell out of the football side of the house, and he seems more concerned with making money that winning football games. Then in rolls the legendary Joe Gibbs, courtesy of Dan Snyder. This year, my mind has been changed. Danny has seemingly completely butted out, let the football guys handle the football, and given them the support they asked for at every opportunity (re: signing Coach Williams when Gibbs asked). Thats just the first step though. Next step: hiring a real GM with real power within the organization. One that can say "Danny NO!" when the next big name (and big $$$ demands) becomes available, and to hopefully avoid making mistakes like the Brunell signing in the future. Final version: Danny "owning" the team and doing nothing else concerning football operations. Just being a fan.......a fan with really nice seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Art For my point of view, I will say as I've said before, there is no owner in any sport who is as good as Dan Snyder. George Steinbrenner would be close, but his need to be the overriding force in New York is what limits him. Snyder, while involved, remains willing to defer decisions to his people. He spends money lavishly on the team, both in signing players and trying to help us improve while spending money to improve the experience for fans at the stadium. This is not to say he's been perfect, as he's not been. He does appear to be the sort of owner who sets expectations and follows through in wanting them met. This can create a tense environment at Redskins Park for individuals who do not thrive under that sort of pressure. The team has not achieved a level of continuity under Snyder, for which he is at least partially to blame. But even this large criticism of Snyder isn't so clearly all his in the blame department. Unlike ownership in other areas -- even of successful teams -- Snyder doesn't horde money and avoid adding a piece clearly needed. He makes moves his people and his eyes tell him must be made and he does so in a way few can match. I'm sure I'll be called upon to defend him further, but for now, I'll stop . I'd say this fairly accurate. Snyder is very smart. He wouldn't be as rich as he is at such a young age if he wasn't. He's made mistakes on the football side, but I believe he is learning. You can't fault a guy for always wanting to hire the best regardless if coaches or players. Snyder will get it right. If you don't set high expectations and goals, then you're doing nothing more than treading water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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