Lurman Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Art I think you give an owner greater responsibility than I give an owner. Yes, it seems so. More than most people here it would seem. Originally posted by Art You seem to view that role as a Buddist might, in that Snyder is everything. I think he's just the owner. Not sure what Buddhist would think but like you I would also refer to him as 'the owner'. Defining the roles and responsibilities of an owner is where we differ obviously, even if that meant 'everything' -- though I wouldn't go that far, maybe 'mostly everything' :-) And though you could never be accused of such a thing given your own well-defined parameters for what an owner is and isn't, I think many people are afraid to admit there may be a problem at the top. Because if that were true, what would be the recourse? I wouldn't know and I probably wouldn't want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Snyder spends any amount to put a winner on the field. He's made mistakes but what owner dosen't? He is a fan that wants to win at any cost and he brought back the coach we all wanted in Joe Gibbs. That move alone makes him special because he knew who we wanted and he got him for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 I honestly don't see how Synder is better than Lurie. Lurie has turned a bad team with an even worse field with an even worse future into what many are saying is the "BEST ORGANIZATION IN THE LEAGUE". We spend money, save money, and we produce.......our merchandise is among the top selling in the league, we are one of the top draws as far as television and playing away. While Sydner blows money on wasted talent and over the hill neva woulda shouldas......Lurie INVESTS......INVESTS money in future stars like Lito, Sheldon, Greg and soon Westbrook. I would rather have an owner who let's Football people make Football decisions rather than an owner who picks his players from a deck of Topps cards. Number5, Lurie has been the single biggest reason you guys haven't broken through and won it all because he ONLY now decided to spend a little cash on players to push through to the end. I hope that works for you, but, there's no doubting the way he's limited how much you could spend has hamstrung your team from filling obvious holes. As for the success of your organization, I hate to break it to you, but it hasn't been anything Lurie has done that has brought this about. It was the McNabb pick and pretty much just the McNabb pick that brought it about. In the cap era if you hit on a QB, you hit on success. If you don't, you can still be successful, but other things have to fall into place. Had the Eagles gone any direction OTHER than McNabb -- say Williams as an example -- you'd be on your third coach since 1999 and still looking for your first winning season, and Lurie's investments in young players like Lito, Westbrook, and the like, would be meaningless, because many of these players would never fit the systems that would have changed in Philly and would never have seen the field. The Redskins can't yet invest in much because we're still working to provide areas our coaches tell us they need patched to succeed. And even the flaw of having so much need and change isn't all directly on Snyder either in cause or blame. The Redskins have Ramsey. If he's brilliant and throws for 4,000 yards, we're going to win the Super Bowl very soon. That won't really be of credit to Snyder. What is of credit to Snyder is never denying his franchise the chance to improve by putting money back into the team. Let's just put it this way. In the second year of a proven formula where we're winning and on the verge of something, it won't take us any longer than that to make the necessary moves to finish the job. You can't say that about your team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by iheartskins So Art, are you basically saying that Snyder's roles are limited to (a) providing capital and ( overseeing back office operations? I think it goes beyond providing capital. It goes to identifying what your people tell you they need and going out and making those things happen for them. It goes to creating an environment where players and agents can negotiate directly with Snyder, allowing us to move decisively, instead of having middle men going back and forth never certain what the owner will ultimately allow spent. As the owner, though, Snyder's job is to hire good people and provide them what they ask for. No one can question the hiring decisions he's made with coaches. Cerrato was a questionable hire, but, he's done an excellent job organizing offseason moves and has validated his position. And Snyder has maintained his key role of providing the necessary means to succeed. A great number of owners would have hired Joe Gibbs and told him he had a set number of dollars to play with when hiring his coaching staff and then prevented Gibbs from spending more to get all the guys he wanted. Snyder shrugged and gave Gibbs more. There's a reason Joe repeatedly stated he was given everything he asked for by Snyder and the rest was on him. It's because it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-Dog Night Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I'll never forgive him for having to pay $3 for a cup of tap water at the season opener in Spunky's first game. It was like 432 degrees out and they ran out of bottled water. I asked the guy at the counter "C'mon man, you can't charge me $3 for a fricken cup of tap water, can you? REALLY?" and he said "Blame Dan Snyder, it's his policy". I like his willingness to go out and spend whatever it takes, but he needs to concentrate on being a little more fan-friendly to the people who pay good money and show up at the stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllWorldSkinFan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Whats the point of having a thread like this? If the W/L records were reversed, with both owners having done the exact same things, Lurie would be the goat and Snyder would be the hero. This is the same kind of stupidity with the saysing like "Defense Wins Championships". No. Teams win championships. Some years a team with an emphasis on offense wins it. Like St. Louis. Sometimes teams with an emphasis on defense wins it like B-More. Sometimes 'special teams wins championships'. I like Snyder. If we have to go down and be like crap, I'd feel (and do) much better knowing that we tried. We saw a deficiency and sought to improve it. Money be damned. Who could have known that this guy or that guy wouldn't pan out? What if it did? Would Snyder still be a good owner if we were losers but did carbon copy type moves of Philly? If we had a ton of draft pics and still went 6-10 would he be a bad owner? Would he be a bad owner if we draft a punter in the 1st round and win a SB? We are the Redskins. We do what we do. Eventually it will yield success as far as football games go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 "That won't really be of credit to Snyder. What is of credit to Snyder is never denying his franchise the chance to improve by putting money back into the team. Let's just put it this way. In the second year of a proven formula where we're winning and on the verge of something, it won't take us any longer than that to make the necessary moves to finish the job. You can't say that about your team." W/E.....keep hope alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllWorldSkinFan Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 For all you Philly fans (and others who are in the playoffs I suppose). Enjoy it. Most of you have earned the right to gloat, be smug, rub it in, etc. Right now, the way your organizations football people have run things have yielded good things. The owner is happy, the fans are happy with the owner, and the coach, and all down the line. But the day will come when the suits will make the exact same kind of decisions as before and it won't work out so well. You'll draft and sign a bust or two. Injury will creep up and drag you down. Then the owners will be 'bad owners'. You'll want heads to roll every week during the season, every move will be critisized. He'll be called cheap. You get the picture. Thats pro football for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted January 11, 2005 Author Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 "That won't really be of credit to Snyder. What is of credit to Snyder is never denying his franchise the chance to improve by putting money back into the team. Let's just put it this way. In the second year of a proven formula where we're winning and on the verge of something, it won't take us any longer than that to make the necessary moves to finish the job. You can't say that about your team." W/E.....keep hope alive Nothing hopeful stated here, Number5. If we achieve success for a couple of years, we won't horde money and use false contractual tricks to convince our fans we're spending all our money when we're not. We'll find the area of need and make it an area we no longer need. I don't know when we'll get to this point, but I know once we're at that point, it won't take Snyder several years to let his guys make the necessary moves to finish the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 I honestly don't see how Synder is better than Lurie. Lurie has turned a bad team with an even worse field with an even worse future into what many are saying is the "BEST ORGANIZATION IN THE LEAGUE". We spend money, save money, and we produce.......our merchandise is among the top selling in the league, we are one of the top draws as far as television and playing away. While Sydner blows money on wasted talent and over the hill neva woulda shouldas......Lurie INVESTS......INVESTS money in future stars like Lito, Sheldon, Greg and soon Westbrook. I would rather have an owner who let's Football people make Football decisions rather than an owner who picks his players from a deck of Topps cards. Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin Terrell Owens, Jevon Kearse. Play for the Eagles......and? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 Play for the Eagles......and? Why dont you fill in the blanks. Don't play dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin Why dont you fill in the blanks. Don't play dumb. He isn't playing:doh: :jk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin Why dont you fill in the blanks. Don't play dumb. Are rich....in the playoffs......love playing for a winner.......whatelse can I say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 Are rich....in the playoffs......love playing for a winner.......whatelse can I say? Way to play it off. You know exactly what I'm talking about. If you can't connect the dots then I don't care to explain it to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walking Deadman Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 I think that Snyder knows how to make money. I also think he wants this team to win and is willing to do anything to get the team to win. He's made many mistakes but I think he is getting better in the following ways. 1. He's trying to leave the team to experts (ie Gibbs) and not interfere with acquirng players etc. 2. He's decided to go with continuity instead of the "quick fix" by keeping an experienced coaching staff and not go after the hottest prospects (Carrol, Saban) 3. Wish lists of past prime players don't work. Less pick ups of Deion, Bruce Smith over the hill players. Although we did pick up Brunell last year...... 4. Don't overpay- In the past Snyder would have overpaid to get Kearse, or other players. It looks that despite the Skins still pay alot for players, they're getting better about overpaying for talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novascotiadiesel Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 talk to me in three years and i will have a more definative opinion but for now i like the fact that he has gone down swinging so to speak and that he admits his past failures and keeps doing whatever he can to make it work on the field i think he will keep going till he gets it and you really can't ask for more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin Way to play it off. You know exactly what I'm talking about. If you can't connect the dots then I don't care to explain it to you. Both were brought in to help push the Eagles over the edge. Sheesh, lighten up dude....maybe you should take a laxative or something. You seem like something crawled up inside of you! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted January 11, 2005 Share Posted January 11, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 Both were brought in to help push the Eagles over the edge. Sheesh, lighten up dude....maybe you should take a laxative or something. You seem like something crawled up inside of you! :laugh: So your team doesn't rely totally 100% on homegrown talent as you seem to imply? Your owner actually did pay for some big name talent, right? My sense of humor nor my bowel movement has anything to do with you trying to sidestep my point. You can dodge and weave, but I'll just pull the rug from under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin So your team doesn't rely totally 100% on homegrown talent as you seem to imply? Your owner actually did pay for some big name talent, right? My sense of humor nor my bowel movement has anything to do with you trying to sidestep my point. You can dodge and weave, but I'll just pull the rug from under. Ok buddy....... Fact is I never said that the Eagles only rely on homegrown talent now did I? What I did say is that they spend money on future stars such as Lito, Sheldon and Westbrook. What our team does that your doesn't is waste money on talent that isn't talent any longer. Your owner pay for fantasy stats and reputations (i.e. Bruce Smith, Mark Brunnell, Deion Sanders, hell, you even dragged Irving Fryar out of retirement after we gave him a bike!) rather than hold onto his true talent (i.e. Stephen Davis) This franchise was in total dissary when Lurie "stole" it from Bramman. No one wanted to play in Philly, even the loyals such as Keith Byars, Reggie White, Seth Joyner, and Keith Jackson wanted no part of the city, yet most of them including Randall Cunningham all returned so that they could have their numbers retired once they saw what Lurie did to turn this ORGANIZATION (note to others.....organization has replaced "team" for the segment of this discussion). No more than a year after Lurie bought the team in 1994, we were back in the playoffs and had a head coach who was voted Coach of the Year, in his FIRST YEAR AS A HEAD COACH! You're argument holds no weight to anything i have spoken so far in the thread at all! You want to say that the Eagles haven't paid for outside talent........we did.....we took your current number 3 or 4 receiver and made him into a key component in our offense.......we took back our MLB who we "rented" to your team and re-birthed his career as well as our "vaunted" defense. We have even went as far as to take the top 2 free agents at their positions and made them feel so welcome in this city that not only are they two of the most popular players in Philly, but the entire NFL. Could you same the same for your hero Portis? I feel bad for him to have gone through what he did this year.....if he was an eagle, he wouldn't just be rich, but he would be respected and he would be considered part of the elite rather than begging at the feet of would be kings! Philadelphia has proven through the years that this city is really where it is at.......free agents want to come here......old team mates want to return....rookies dream of playing here...... And we owe it to Jeffy........why? Cause he built them to be a respectable organization that competes year in and year out with the ultimate goal of bringing a championship to the city of brotherly love. One.....city One.....dream One......team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canesluver Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by Number5 One.....city One.....dream One......team! The city sucks!! The dream won't happen!! The team....yeah there is a team:puke: :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number5 Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by canesluver The city sucks!! The dream won't happen!! The team....yeah there is a team:puke: :eaglesuck :eaglesuck :eaglesuck Thank you and keep the 6 wins as change. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I voted Yes, mistakes made, benefits team. If you had asked me prior to Coach Gibbs return, my answer would have been different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 Originally posted by RDSKNfaithfull Art we all know what side of the fence you are on :laugh: How about a more in between answer like He gets a A for effort and has failed up to this point, Charges a lot for everything and has put a poor product on the field, BUT i hope he learns from his mistakes and eventually gets "it". I don't think it's fair to say, "He's failed up to this point." He has had a lack of success in the win/loss column, but has won in many ways. 1) Head Coach=Gibbs. 2) Asst. Head Coach=Williams. That's two in the win column. And anyone who thinks that bringing Gibbs back is anything less than a win, just wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted January 12, 2005 Share Posted January 12, 2005 I voted for Great Owner. No rose colored glasses here. I am fully aware of the mistakes from firing Turner mid-season to now. He did not make any mistakes as a new owner that many of us would not have made as well. Except for perhaps Deion and George. He took his lumps. He learned and is still learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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