DM: Switzerland considers legalising COCAINE: Politicians declare 'the war on drugs has failed'

[CousinsCowgirl84]

12 hours ago, tshile said:

What kids? Legalization would clearly come with age restrictions. 
 

If you think an adult being able to buy drugs at a store, instead of from a drug dealer, is going to impact the youth’s ability to access drugs, then you’re as laughably naive as my parents and all the parents in my county were 😂 you know the type - the ones that think drugs are them inner city folks’ problem, that’s why we moved out here, to get away from it 😂 

 

 

Yeah so about that, do we have a mushroom usage epidemic in DC now that it’s legal? I haven’t heard anything about it. 

The addiction level of shrooms and cocaine aren’t the same. I’ve never heard of someone killed for eating the last shroom, but you smoke the last crack rock it’s on like donkey Kong! How many people prostitute themselves for a bump? For a bud?

 

Your stance here is perilously close to those of many a “yada yada absolutist”…

Edited December 22, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Koolblue13]

There are definitely medicinal qualities to cocaine.

 

I was on Adderall for a few years until it became too hard to get and I went back to welbutrin, but that's pretty weak. 

[tshile]

31 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The addiction level of shrooms and cocaine aren’t the same. I’ve never heard of someone killed for eating the last shroom, but you smoke the last crack rock it’s on like donkey Kong! How many people prostitute themselves for a bump? For a bud?

 

Your stance here is perilously close to those of many a “yada yada absolutist”…

the point is we legalized a very serious drug and we don’t have an epidemic of usage

 

and while I have no problem understanding the difference, I even spoke to it already, certainly part of the narrative for why legalizing it was bad included people just tripping on shrooms causing problems and kids having access to drugs. 
 

basically the same tired argument we see any time legalization of any substance comes up. Exact same arguments. 
 

and here’s a real world example of how those arguments are total bull****, in a situation where we don’t have a lot (actually only a tiny few) examples to work with 

 

maybe try to think a little more critically. This is a difficult topic with not a lot of facts, data, or research because we have so few examples of anything close to this idea in the modern age. We also have few people forming polished frameworks. 
 

if all you have to offer is nit picking then you’re useless. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by tshile

[tshile]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If America wasn't such a ****hole in regards to health care, let alone mental health and especially drug rehabilitation, I'd be fine with it all being legal. I'm all for decriminalizing everything.

 

Until a few people with a lot of money, figure out how to monetize legalized drugs, it won't happen any way.

 

A country like Switzerland that spends tax money on education and health care can do something like this, but we're a bunch of fat idiots who worship money.

 

We can't even handle pharma like adults.

there’s truth to this, for sure, but it’s actually sort of missing the boat. 
 

if we had a real interest in investing in the well being of our society, outright banning substance could potentially work. However, the way it winds up getting implemented means not enough effort is put into helping these people. Part of the problem with the drug war is it requires viewing tackling drug usage as a “war”, they didn’t just accidentally decide to use that word when forming and pitching this. That mentality means cracking down hard wherever you can to show your war-like mentality, but sweeping anything else under the rug and not acknowledging it because to do so would be to admit weakness. 
 

so we don’t help these people, we pretend they don’t exist and pretend we’re doing a good job cause last week they put a picture on the front page of the locals standing behind a table with a couple kilos of coke and some handguns pulled from a traffic stop. (Got my county loves to do that)

 

in its own way legalizing is meant to help with this. Remove the stigma. Take it away from law enforcement, make it strictly a healthcare issue. Have people treat drug addiction like alcohol addiction - which is something people are super supportive of getting helped for, whereas drug addiction causes people to think way differently of you (which hurts employment situations, as well as other situations)

 

create a system that generates money to pump more money into helping. 
 

cause no one wants to spend money on this subject. No one wants to pay more taxes to give a better life to the drug addicts. If you ever tried to participate in getting an addiction center set up, you’ll find almost everyone saying something nice about the idea but almost no one willing to have one down the street from them. Once someone finds out your plan puts your center in the same zip code as their house, all hell breaks loose. 
 

the last one we tried here pissed so many people off, the local government swooped in and purchased the property from under the people buying it with a rezoning contingency, then they bulldozed the entire building and turned the entire property into a ****ing parking lot. 
 

the general public has proven they have no desire to understand, care about, or help drug addicts. A legal system can be designed to pump money into helping addiction, to make up for the lack of desire to allocate taxpayers money to it. 
 

 

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, tshile said:

there’s truth to this, for sure, but it’s actually sort of missing the boat. 
 

if we had a real interest in investing in the well being of our society, outright banning substance could potentially work. However, the way it winds up getting implemented means not enough effort is put into helping these people. Part of the problem with the drug war is it requires viewing tackling drug usage as a “war”, they didn’t just accidentally decide to use that word when forming and pitching this. That mentality means cracking down hard wherever you can to show your war-like mentality, but sweeping anything else under the rug and not acknowledging it because to do so would be to admit weakness. 
 

so we don’t help these people, we pretend they don’t exist and pretend we’re doing a good job cause last week they put a picture on the front page of the locals standing behind a table with a couple kilos of coke and some handguns pulled from a traffic stop. (Got my county loves to do that)

 

in its own way legalizing is meant to help with this. Remove the stigma. Take it away from law enforcement, make it strictly a healthcare issue. Have people treat drug addiction like alcohol addiction - which is something people are super supportive of getting helped for, whereas drug addiction causes people to think way differently of you (which hurts employment situations, as well as other situations)

 

create a system that generates money to pump more money into helping. 
 

cause no one wants to spend money on this subject. No one wants to pay more taxes to give a better life to the drug addicts. If you ever tried to participate in getting an addiction center set up, you’ll find almost everyone saying something nice about the idea but almost no one willing to have one down the street from them. Once someone finds out your plan puts your center in the same zip code as their house, all hell breaks loose. 
 

the last one we tried here pissed so many people off, the local government swooped in and purchased the property from under the people buying it with a rezoning contingency, then they bulldozed the entire building and turned the entire property into a ****ing parking lot. 
 

the general public has proven they have no desire to understand, care about, or help drug addicts. A legal system can be designed to pump money into helping addiction, to make up for the lack of desire to allocate taxpayers money to it. 
 

 

That absolutely sucks to read. Sorry that happened to y'all.

 

It's all part of the "Defund the Police" movement, but that sounds like I hate Freedom, The Troops and America to some people

 

It's odd how we view Cigarettes and Alcohol and even guns as wholesome to a point as long as you aren't waving them in anyones face, but other drugs are demonized and stigmatized so harshly. We've had two PotUS admit they did cocaine, but some people think it's inner city rock smokers.

[tshile]

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

It's all part of the "Defund the Police" movement, but that sounds like I hate Freedom, The Troops and America to some people

 

this is just straight up NIMBY which is not an issue exclusive to any one group. people love to say they support something - actually supporting it when it requires some sacrifice or serious commitment on their part strangely tends to have less support 🙄
 

 

9 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

It's odd how we view Cigarettes and Alcohol and even guns as wholesome to a point as long as you aren't waving them in anyones face, but other drugs are demonized and stigmatized so harshly. We've had two PotUS admit they did cocaine, but some people think it's inner city rock smokers.

 

 

the views on drugs up through today remind me of early-American views on things like homosexuality and sexual expression in general (like premarital sex)

 

the viewpoint required to say the things many people say, is so ignorant and naive of how people actually behave and what is actually going on, it’s (in its own way) spectacular to observe. So many people are so disconnected from reality. 
 

and much like homosexuality, or abortion, or many other hot topic issues - you can watch a persons strong, loud stance on the issue change once *their* kid is the drug addict. Or *their* sister is the one that needs help. 
 

then all the sudden they’ve found their compassion genes and have realized the reality of drug addiction. The countless stories of other people and the decades long history of tearing families apart never budge them one inch - they didn’t give a ****. But now it’s their kid, and they care …

 

most people seem to think drug addicts are just ****ty people. The idea some of them simply were in a car accident and victims of pharmaceutical industry pushing opioids and viewing the consequences of addiction as a boost to profits, is a foreign concept they can’t understand. 
 

unless it happens to their kid.  Cause their kid was never a ****ty person. Their kid only has bad things happen to them because they’re a victim 

[Koolblue13]

31 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

this is just straight up NIMBY which is not an issue exclusive to any one group. people love to say they support something - actually supporting it when it requires some sacrifice or serious commitment on their part strangely tends to have less support 🙄
 

 

 

 

the views on drugs up through today remind me of early-American views on things like homosexuality and sexual expression in general (like premarital sex)

 

the viewpoint required to say the things many people say, is so ignorant and naive of how people actually behave and what is actually going on, it’s (in its own way) spectacular to observe. So many people are so disconnected from reality. 
 

and much like homosexuality, or abortion, or many other hot topic issues - you can watch a persons strong, loud stance on the issue change once *their* kid is the drug addict. Or *their* sister is the one that needs help. 
 

then all the sudden they’ve found their compassion genes and have realized the reality of drug addiction. The countless stories of other people and the decades long history of tearing families apart never budge them one inch - they didn’t give a ****. But now it’s their kid, and they care …

 

most people seem to think drug addicts are just ****ty people. The idea some of them simply were in a car accident and victims of pharmaceutical industry pushing opioids and viewing the consequences of addiction as a boost to profits, is a foreign concept they can’t understand. 
 

unless it happens to their kid.  Cause their kid was never a ****ty person. Their kid only has bad things happen to them because they’re a victim 

I definitely get the NIMBY part of what happened and agree.

 

I really like your point about how the majority view of things change. I was pretty ignorant about gay people when I was younger, but it was the 80's and we were allowing them to die in a pandemic intentionally, then someone very close to me came out and it was change my views or lose the relationship. It was difficult. I'm pretty much vegan and look at people who aren't the same way.

 

There are two countries that allow public advertising of Pharma. The US and NZ. NZ spends double what we spend on education and doesn't have an opioid epidemic. We spend ours on a huge military to protect oil assets and have sections of cities devoted to allowing junkies to be themselves. It's disgusting. 

[Renegade7]

@tshile

 

That sucks to hear about your attempt to build a center to help people with addiction.

 

It reminds of the backwards talk and actions of Liberals with respect to the homeless, also NIMBY.

 

Other countries have slowly figured out to put a roof over folks head then helping them get their **** together versus get their **** together then they can pay rent like the rest of us. 

 

Nah, we put spikes under bridges to make it nearly impossible to sleep under them instead.  In fairness some places in US are turning around on this and then others are also speaking on need to treat addiction more like a healthcare matter. 

 

But I agree it's nowhere where it should be because of how many that do want to do the right thing want to limit impact on them.  That's where the government has to take the lead and say we're doing this anyway, not the opposite like they did to you and your wife.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, tshile said:

the point is we legalized a very serious drug and we don’t have an epidemic of usage

 

define “very serious drug”. Shrooms are not a very serious drug. Studies (limited in number and scope) have shown health benefits and low risk of addiction. It certainly seems to be less serious than alcohol or cigarettes.

 

 

2 hours ago, tshile said:

 

 

maybe try to think a little more critically. This is a difficult topic with not a lot of facts, data, or research because we have so few examples of anything close to this idea in the modern age. We also have few people forming polished frameworks. 
 

if all you have to offer is nit picking then you’re useless. 

that was a lot of words not to say anything that shows you are “thinking critically” 

 

your position is every drug should be legalized because it makes zero (or marginal) difference. That is a pretty inane take to have. 
 

 

 

Edit: just be clear I am ok with decriminalizing everything, but you make it sound like you don’t think it matters if it is sold in stores or not. That’s a crazy position to take.

Edited December 22, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Chachie]

I used to do cocaine about 3-5 times a year in my 20s-early 30s. Never got addicted and I don't know why, because I did like it a bit too much. I would not even know where to begin or who to call if I wanted some these days... and that's probably a really good thing. 

 

If a country opens the gate on a drug like that, it won't take long before they have a problem on their hands.

[tshile]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

define “very serious drug”. Shrooms are not a very serious drug. Studies (limited in number and scope) have shown health benefits and low risk of addiction. It certainly seems to be less serious than alcohol or cigarettes.

😂

you never fail to reveal just how little you know about something 

 

hallucinogens aren’t serious drugs 😂 sure thing. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by tshile

[TradeTheBeal!]

A couple months back, I visited SoHo and dropped into one of their new recreational dispensaries.  I bought some gummies and pre-rolls like always, but they also had psylocibin (mushroom) candy bars…Snickers flavor, no less!

 

So, I nabbed one of those and then just this week gifted it to a dear friend whom I know loves her campfire hallucinogens.  I’m looking forward to a full report regarding its efficacy on the other side of the holidays.

 

Didnt put any heroin under anyone’s tree this year, tho.

[Captain Wiggles]

3 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

Didnt put any heroin under anyone’s tree this year, tho.

 

🤭

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

😂

you never fail to reveal just how little you know about something 

 

hallucinogens aren’t serious drugs 😂 sure thing. 

Have you ever taken magic mushrooms? Yeah you trip but it’s not like you don’t know where you are at or what day it is…

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

A couple months back, I visited SoHo and dropped into one of their new recreational dispensaries.  I bought some gummies and pre-rolls like always, but they also had psylocibin (mushroom) candy bars…Snickers flavor, no less!

 

So, I nabbed one of those and then just this week gifted it to a dear friend whom I know loves her campfire hallucinogens.  I’m looking forward to a full report regarding its efficacy on the other side of the holidays.

 

Didnt put any heroin under anyone’s tree this year, tho.

Those chocolate bars are awesome. Measured doses is really cool. I microdosed for two months back in July and August and I was in the best mood in years.

[Captain Wiggles]

I can't microdose psilocybin. Gotta be 4-14 grams or I'll be disappointed. 🤣

[tshile]

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Have you ever taken magic mushrooms? Yeah you trip but it’s not like you don’t know where you are at or what day it is…

It’s great that you did it again 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 hours ago, Captain Wiggles said:

I can't microdose psilocybin. Gotta be 4-14 grams or I'll be disappointed. 🤣

I think I took 1/8 oz…   Whatever an “eighth” is..

Edited December 22, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Captain Wiggles]

27 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

I think I took 1/8 oz…   Whatever an “eighth” is..

 

3.5 grams. 🤓

 

That's a perfectly cromulent dose. 

[Captain Wiggles]

Was gonna put this in the miscellaneous humor thread but it fits here the betters. 🤭

 

[Riggo-toni]

Just remember, according to our federal government, marijuana as a schedule 1 drug is more dangerous than cocaine (schedule 2).

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Riggo-toni said:

Just remember, according to our federal government, marijuana as a schedule 1 drug is more dangerous than cocaine (schedule 2).

 

it’s hard to find anything about the drug war they got right. 
 

i suppose the science of addition, but even that should have been taken more seriously,

funded more, etc 

[Riggo-toni]

The reason the US calls it marijuana rather than hashish or cannabis like the rest of the world is because the government wanted it to sound Mexican - the original laws criminalizing it were aimed at providing police with an excuse to arrest immigrants, as the drug was cheaper and thus more popular with them than alcohol. The fact that our government has wasted hundreds of billions of dollars on an insane "war on drugs" and then allowed pharmaceuticals to legally distribute massive amounts of concentrated synthetic heroin just shows a complete absence of logic.

[Captain Wiggles]

Like most things in America our drug laws are steeped in old timey racism. 😬

 

I believe the first drug laws in America were specifically written to target Asians what came here and built the transcontinental railroad.

[Koolblue13]