2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

Feels like we should just talk OL and maybe TE, the OL extension in this thread for a while!

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Feels like we should just talk OL and maybe TE, the OL extension in this thread for a while!

Problem is that doesn’t mean that’s what we will draft. 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Problem is that doesn’t mean that’s what we will draft. 

Based on last year, I guess you're correct.

 

Snyder would push for a new QB to solve everything, fingers crossed we don't do this but build a protection plan.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Based on last year, I guess you're correct.

 

Snyder would push for a new QB to solve everything, fingers crossed we don't do this but build a protection plan.

Well, we may actually need a new QB. He may not make it through the year. They are not giving him developing support at all.

Edited September 24, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mhd24]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Assuming we're in the 10-15 range, we still won't be in position to take him.  Fashanu goes top 5, and Alt goes in the 6-9 range (top 4 is set in stone already with Caleb, Maye, Harrison, and Fashanu).  OL play in general is horrific around the league.  Every PAID OL in this past FA looks god awful and would not be improvements relative to their cost for our OL.  JaWaan Taylor or Mcglintchey at their prices would be disasters for us.  Donovan Smith got abused by Hutchinson opening night.  Broderick Jones can't even get on the field for Pittsburgh.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Assuming we're in the 10-15 range, we still won't be in position to take him.  Fashanu goes top 5, and Alt goes in the 6-9 range (top 4 is set in stone already with Caleb, Maye, Harrison, and Fashanu).  OL play in general is horrific around the league.  Every PAID OL in this past FA looks god awful and would not be improvements relative to their cost for our OL.  JaWaan Taylor or Mcglintchey at their prices would be disasters for us.  Donovan Smith got abused by Hutchinson opening night.  Broderick Jones can't even get on the field for Pittsburgh.  

 

It's too early for me to have a take right now.  I am just getting my feet wet.  But if I were them and I saw a LT who I thought was really good and a peg better than the next guy, I'd consider trading up.  the position is that level code red to me.  

[mhd24]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I'm pretty wary of Bama OL.  Ryan Kelly is the last good OL that has come out from there.  Evan Neal looks like a bust (but it might be too soon).  Doesn't look like he has the feet to be a RT.  Could be like Flowers where he needs to move inside.  Leatherwood busted.  Jonah Williams has been pretty bad for his draft position.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

I'm pretty wary of Bama OL.  Ryan Kelly is the last good OL that has come out from there.  Evan Neal looks like a bust (but it might be too soon).  Doesn't look like he has the feet to be a RT.  Could be like Flowers where he needs to move inside.  Leatherwood busted.  Jonah Williams has been pretty bad for his draft position.  

 

I haven't watched him yet but generally I am not worried about past players from the same school in my takes.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

It's too early for me to have a take right now.  I am just getting my feet wet.  But if I were them and I saw a LT who I thought was really good and a peg better than the next guy, I'd consider trading up.  the position is that level code red to me.  

 

It would cost a future 1st at a minimum and I'm not paying that price for any positions sans QB.  Obviously OL needs to be the pick.  This draft looks deep in draft able tackles.  However, you need to pick the right one.  I don't know who Broderick Jones ends up as, but his played 4 snaps this year I think.  You need to take the right player.  Imagine if we traded up for Neal.  It would be a disaster.  However, if it was Charles Cross, it would be a home run.  I'm generally risk averse in general, and I can't agree to trade a future pick to move up for a tackle.    

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

It would cost a future 1st at a minimum and I'm not paying that price for any positions sans QB.  Obviously OL needs to be the pick.  This draft looks deep in draft able tackles.  However, you need to pick the right one.  I don't know who Broderick Jones ends up as, but his played 4 snaps this year I think.  You need to take the right player.  Imagine if we traded up for Neal.  It would be a disaster.  However, if it was Charles Cross, it would be a home run.  I'm generally risk averse in general, and I can't agree to trade a future pick to move up for a tackle.    

 

I think we are jumping the gun about what it would cost us and where these guy land.  No I am not into trading two firsts.  But typically you don't have to unless you trade way up.

 

If we have a decent season and Alt or whatever target ends up a top 5 pick then OK it would transpire like that where you'd have to trade a lot to get up.  But there are so many moving parts that have to unfold before worrying about that.  Like how many other good prospects end up top 10.  Where do we actually land in the draft, etc,

 

Talking now about how much it would cost us to land a top LT is premature.  I am just saying if THEY believe that name that LT is a peg above the next guy -- then don't do what they did last draft where apparently they loved Darnell Wright but not so much the next guy at tackle so they drafted another position.  They cannot IMO afford to do that again.

 

Last off season IMO the O line was labeled code red by Ron but he didn't act on it.  Next time it has to be a real Code Red not another BS version of it.  Although I suspect and hope another FO will be making these calls.  Ideally its a deep draft at tackle and they din't have to trade up at all, but this time don't skip a Darrisaw type if he's at their pick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

He's a guard but i did actually watch some Cooper last year and I recall liking him but need to refresh

 

 

 

[FlyBigBeard]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

We need to go offensive lineman with every pick we have this year. They are trying to get Sam killed. He has no chance for success if his pressure rate is 79% on drop backs!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said:

 

We need to go offensive lineman with every pick we have this year. They are trying to get Sam killed. He has no chance for success if his pressure rate is 79% on drop backs!! 🤦🏻‍♂️

Yeah they definitely need to take it seriously for a change.  Rivera inherited a good O line and basically dismantled it into becoming one of the leagues worst 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Were we?

 

Do you put the blame for all, or even most of the sacks we are giving up on the OL?

 

I'm still bullish on Howell and EB, and I get the instinct to give them slack because I feel it too, but I can't pin the blame for yesterday's horrible performance by the offense on the OL.  They're an average group that is getting lit up mostly because of awful playcalling and bad QB play.

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Do you put the blame for all, or even most of the sacks we are giving up on the OL?

 

I'm still bullish on Howell and EB, and I get the instinct to give them slack because I feel it too, but I can't pin the blame for yesterday's horrible performance by the offense on the OL.  They're an average group that is getting lit up mostly because of awful playcalling and bad QB play.

 

Yeah.  I remember the OL getting killed when RG3 was here getting constantly sacked (and that was with Trent), but once Kirk got the call, all of a sudden, they were playing excellently.  I like Howell, but he holds the ball WAY TOO LONG.  EB's gameplay wasn't great IMO, but all of those picks yesterday were on Howell.  I'm not qualified to say if any of the sacks were solely on the OL, but many (to the eye test) seemed to be on Howell holding the ball.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Do you put the blame for all, or even most of the sacks we are giving up on the OL?

 

I'm still bullish on Howell and EB, and I get the instinct to give them slack because I feel it too, but I can't pin the blame for yesterday's horrible performance by the offense on the OL.  They're an average group that is getting lit up mostly because of awful playcalling and bad QB play.

 

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

 

Yeah.  I remember the OL getting killed when RG3 was here getting constantly sacked (and that was with Trent), but once Kirk got the call, all of a sudden, they were playing excellently.  I like Howell, but he holds the ball WAY TOO LONG.  EB's gameplay wasn't great IMO, but all of those picks yesterday were on Howell.  I'm not qualified to say if any of the sacks were solely on the OL, but many (to the eye test) seemed to be on Howell holding the ball.

No, I do not put it all on the OL. But I put a brunt of it on them, yes. They were really, really bad. 
 

I blame Howell some. He does hold the ball.

 

I blame Bienemy some. I’m not sure our receivers were actually getting open for Howell to get the ball out. 
 

I blame our receivers some.

 

I blame Rivera quite a bit. 
 

But the offensive line is atrocious. This isn’t an RG3 situation. They are outright whiffing and missing assignments. 
 

If they were an average group, Howell would still be taking unneeded sacks. To that much I agree. But it wouldn’t be like it has been.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

If they were an average group, Howell would still be taking unneeded sacks. To that much I agree. But it wouldn’t be like it has been.

 

Going in to yesterday they were an average group according to PFF grading and ESPN's PBWR.  Howell has also been on the higher end of time to throw comparisons with the league.  They definitely had a really bad day yesterday, but the problem is the ball is just not coming out fast enough.  EB just hasn't been doing a good job, outside of the second half of the Denver game.  Howell isn't seeing the field well either, the edges of our OL are missing too many blocks, the receivers are not getting open fast enough, and Gibson has been fumbling at the worst time.  Basically the only guy that has been good is B Rob, and he got left out in the cold.

 

I'm rooting for Howell and EB too because I know that they represent the only path to success for this franchise under the Rivera regime, but what they are trying to to do isn't working.  They need to go back to basics and scrap their approach to the passing game.  Get Sam easier reads and quicker options, move his pockets, scheme in bigger and more flexible protections, and most of all, commit to the run.  EB has not adjusted to the fact that his QB just can't read the field like a veteran Mahomes.  We're seeing nothing but two high shells and light boxes, why are we not pounding the run and dink and dunking it down the field methodically?  Why is Sam playing hero ball from a static pocket?

 

Yesterday was a big step back and a reality check no doubt, but we can still save this season and this build and get things on track.  It's going to take big adjustments on offense.

[Warhead36]

22 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

No, I do not put it all on the OL. But I put a brunt of it on them, yes. They were really, really bad. 
 

I blame Howell some. He does hold the ball.

 

I blame Bienemy some. I’m not sure our receivers were actually getting open for Howell to get the ball out. 
 

I blame our receivers some.

 

I blame Rivera quite a bit. 
 

But the offensive line is atrocious. This isn’t an RG3 situation. They are outright whiffing and missing assignments. 
 

If they were an average group, Howell would still be taking unneeded sacks. To that much I agree. But it wouldn’t be like it has been.

This is the correct take.

 

Its not all on the OL but they are definitely the biggest problem.

[philibusters]

18 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

I'm pretty wary of Bama OL.  Ryan Kelly is the last good OL that has come out from there.  Evan Neal looks like a bust (but it might be too soon).  Doesn't look like he has the feet to be a RT.  Could be like Flowers where he needs to move inside.  Leatherwood busted.  Jonah Williams has been pretty bad for his draft position.  

 

Landon Dickerson for the Eagles has been good.

[method man]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:52 PM, philibusters said:

 

Landon Dickerson for the Eagles has been good.

If someone really studied it, there may be a bit of a difference in production between the interior guys and the tackles.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[The Rook]

I hope I am wrong, but I'm afraid this team will need to draft QB with their first pick next year. 

 

However, the selection (or non-selection) of a new GM will be more impactful. 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, The Rook said:

I hope I am wrong, but I'm afraid this team will need to draft QB with their first pick next year. 

 

However, the selection (or non-selection) of a new GM will be more impactful. 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I just said this in another post and I think unless we are top two and have a chance at a once in a lifetime guy we need to fix the line so our next QB has a prayer. 
 

I’m not going against Howell yet. He’s been good except for Buffalo. We are turning on the kid way too quickly. 
 

But playing the “what if” game… if Howell doesn’t do great this year and we aren’t picking say… top 5… I don’t see any reason why we wouldn’t go line. 
 

Outside of Williams and Maye who would we want? Bo Nix? Ewers? Dartt? There’s no one I look at outside of the top two that I think are a clear upgrade to Howell at this point. 
 

But to the point, a new regime may want their own people. But if they don’t fix the line the new regime is DOA from the jump.