Budget Fight (FY23 and Beyond...)

[TheGreatBuzz]

1 hour ago, Fergasun said:

it kills benefits for Vets (comments about burn pits) as I described a few posts above.

 

I didn't see this mentioned.  Was it in the pdf?

 

Edit:  Found the part about science showing a lot of claims aren't tied to service if that is what you're talking about.

Edited February 2, 2023 by TheGreatBuzz

[Fergasun]

55 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I didn't see this mentioned.  Was it in the pdf?

 

Edit:  Found the part about science showing a lot of claims aren't tied to service if that is what you're talking about.

Page 83.  It is talking about the burn pits legislation.  Also, talking about "able bodied veterans" in direct payments..

 

Here is rational for GOP to be against the VA.  

 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-oppose-bill-help-veterans-exposed-toxins-rcna18701

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 hours ago, Fergasun said:

Page 83.  It is talking about the burn pits legislation.  Also, talking about "able bodied veterans" in direct payments..

 

Here is rational for GOP to be against the VA.  

 

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/gop-oppose-bill-help-veterans-exposed-toxins-rcna18701

 

Right it says "

As seen with recent burn pit legislation, many conditions are considered qualified disabilities as presumptively connected despite overwhelming evidence that many conditions have no scientifically established link to the presumptive cause."

 

That isn't killing benefits for Vets.  That is cutting out benefits for people who claim it is connected without any scientific proof.  

[Fergasun]

Please read a little bit about "burn pits" and denied VA claims.

[TheGreatBuzz]

12 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Please read a little bit about "burn pits" and denied VA claims.

 

Hahaha hahaha.  Do you realize who you're talking to?  

[Fergasun]

5 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

Hahaha hahaha.  Do you realize who you're talking to?  

Someone who is not happy with their local VA...

[TheGreatBuzz]

13 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Someone who is not happy with their local VA...

 

Actually I'm pretty happy overall with the VA medical system so far.  

 

But I'm wondering how many VA disability claims you've filed?  How many friend's claims have you helped with?  Ever been near a burn pit and therefore had to research about claims for them?  

 

And you have ignored every thing I have posted, notably about science and presumptive conditions which is what the proposal targets.

[Fergasun]

@TheGreatBuzz

You are right... answer is none, none, none. 

 

I believe burn pits are something that hadn't been scientifically proven.  Curious that the opponents to burn pit claims were one party. 

 

Just like the budget proposed.  Science and presumptive conditions (BURN PITS). How does the VA save money?  Denying legitimate claims with bs like "presumptive link"   Sure... there's a lot of vets scamming the system?

[TheGreatBuzz]

6 hours ago, Fergasun said:

Sure... there's a lot of vets scamming the system?

 

Yes.  And it is one of the biggest issues with VA car in my opinion.  I'll come back and explain more later but in short, presumptive conditions make it easy for fraud.  For example, I could claim COPD if I wanted (wouldn't matter for me because I am already 100%) because I was once in an area where burn pits were and no thought whatsoever would be paid to the fact that I also smoked for 25 years and that could be part of it.

[Fergasun]

@TheGreatBuzz

I feel like we are spitballing anecdotes at each other and we really lack hard data which is why we are talking past each other.  This is typical for how the political arguments go... and I think I enjoy the argument to much. 

 

I read the CRA proposal and think, "it means they want to shift VA benefits from fairly generous to stingy" and you read it and think "it means they want to shift VA benefits from extremely generous to fair."  

 

Congress doesn't try to operate from a "how much is fair" standpoint.. they seem take the baselines to their budgets, add inflation and move on.  There are regular oversight into the agencies, but the agencies always try to spend to their budgets and justify it.  

 

It's a tricky problem to get into and Congress doesn't pay any better attention than us. 

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

@Fergasun

I do appreciate the conversation so please don't take this like it is probably going to come out.

 

Many people like to throw out anecdotes but I don't think that is the case with me.  I feel pretty confident in saying I have more experience dealing with the VA and knowledge on their issues than the rest of the board combined.  I don't mind people asking what it is like to deal with the VA but I don't think many can tell me what it is like.  I pay very close attention to veteran news because it closely affects me.  Just so you understand where my knowledge comes from, I retired day one rated at 100% permanent and total.  Any veteran will tell you that getting 100% rating isn't easy.  I have 24 (ish?) rated conditions and hit 100% by the 12th one.  I deserve my 100%.  But I know intamitly the ins and outs of the system, it's strengths and weaknesses, and what really happens on the ground d despite what the talking head want to portray.

 

But using an example from my case, one of my rated conditions is from when I broke my jaw falling on the ice.  This was at my home, not related in any way to military duties, and due to my own dumbass-ry.  That injury alone and the longterm effects (not counting concussion stuff) would rate about 30%.  Why the **** should that be footed by the tax payers.  That is just one issue.

 

The burn pit issue stems from when the VA was just a total ****show and passed away the whole issue.  One Congress got involved, they overcorrected and now just give a burn pit designation to anyone *hyperboly alert*.  

 

Now the GOP is proposing cutting veterans benefits.  That is a 100% factual statement.  But without more details, their target appears to be people with designations under 30%.  And that IS where you see the most fraud*.  People just make **** up to get a designation for the benefits and those low numbers don't get challenged as much.  Their just isn't the manpower to challenge every kid claiming chronic hang nails (yes that is a rating).  So target their funding.  

 

Again, I love to rail against the GOP so I will point out to everyone the general statement about cutting veteran benefits hoping to sway their support away from this economic terrorism.  But between you and me, they aren't wrong.

 

*morally if not technically. 

 

**For anyone wanting to be smart on the topics regarding percentage ratings from the VA, Google "VA disability math explained."  Learn how being rated 60%+50%+20%=being rated 90% disabled.

[Fergasun]

@TheGreatBuzz

Great response that I'm only gonna reply to one thing on.  Why shouldn't you get VA disability for falling on ice?  When you are in the military, the government owns you.  They can recall you at any hour.  They tell you where you work and live. You would have only been somewhere to slip on ice because they sent you there. 

 

That is how I see the logic of paying for indirect to service injuries. 

[TheGreatBuzz]

4 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@TheGreatBuzz

Great response that I'm only gonna reply to one thing on.  Why shouldn't you get VA disability for falling on ice?  When you are in the military, the government owns you.  They can recall you at any hour.  They tell you where you work and live. You would have only been somewhere to slip on ice because they sent you there. 

 

That is how I see the logic of paying for indirect to service injuries. 

 

Because no other employer would.  That isn't how our healthcare/whatever system works.  I could see the argument if I was on my way to work because I had to go in during a snow storm, whatever....

 

VA disability is designed to compensate for conditions that are due to or worsened by military service.  That doesn’t apply here.  

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Fergasun]

I am marking another week where this went by with no progress.  Any member of Congress who complains that something gets done at the last moment can blame themselves for allowing the time to silently pass by. 

 

i swear Congress acts like they are paid to not solve these problems quickly, even though in early February I am sure leadership of both parties know what a 80% solution would look like. 

[China]

Republicans struggle to get their act together for a debt limit deal

 

Republicans and Democrats are no closer to reaching a deal on the debt ceiling as the country grows ever nearer to default, potentially sparking a global economic catastrophe. But while Republicans say they won’t increase the limit without concessions like spending cuts, they don’t have a unified proposal for what that would look like — nor a particularly strong negotiating position given that Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy is the one doing the negotiating.

 

The Treasury has already instituted “extraordinary measures” so the government can continue spending, but that can only stave off default until June, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen estimated in January. Without a deal to increase the limit, US borrowing could be halted, downgrading creditworthiness and triggering a recession that would reverberate around the world.

 

McCarthy met with President Joe Biden Wednesday to discuss the debt limit, though McCarthy told reporters that the two failed to reach a consensus. Biden, for his part, wants a debt ceiling increase without spending cuts. He has said he won’t negotiate on that position, but that he would be willing to discuss the federal deficit separately from the debt ceiling.

 

Because the US has run a budget deficit every year since 2000, the nation’s debt ceiling — the amount the country is legally allowed to borrow from the Treasury in order to pay its bills — has ballooned to $31.4 trillion. The Treasury issues debt instruments, like bonds, to fund the spending that the government has already committed.

 

If the nation can’t pay its debt, the consequences for both the US and the global economy will be catastrophic, as experts including Yellen have repeatedly stressed. 

 

Click on the link for the full article

[Larry]

Hey, if Biden can successfully maneuver them into demanding that they must pass, on their own, a detailed, specific, bill, that they think is acceptable?  It'll never happen. 
 

Because they all want to demand Social Security cuts. But a lot of them are smart enough not to vote for it, on the record. 

[EmirOfShmo]

 

[88Comrade2000]

45 minutes ago, EmirOfShmo said:

 

You’re damn right Chris.  Of course having a bad economy in 24 helps the gop since the Dems control the presidency and US Senate; they will be blamed for it more than the people responsible for it, the Gop House.

 

So the gop has no interest in doing anything. Letting the government default and shutting it down; suits the needs of the gop perfectly.

[Fergasun]

This is what I think will happen.  

 

Biden will produce a budget that actually has some "spending cuts" (aka slower increases) in FY24.  This has to be done in March.

 

There is much debate over whether the House GOP can produce any budget for FY24.  A lot of people on the left are thinking "no" as any far-right GOP could be outflanked by a deficit hawk in a primary.... but who am I kidding... it's going to be Trumper challenging them in primaries.  Regardless, the deficit hawks will be fighting the military hawks and with like a 5 vote margin this could be for a crazy budget resolution.

 

The Social Security and Medicare cut discussion was genius and I see Dems doing the same thing going into the 2024 election.  You can't balance the budget in 10 years (on paper) without hitting those programs. All GOP deficit hawks use that as a metric. Otherwise, you do massive military cuts.  One lf the deals McCarthy made was on the budget balancing in 10 years to become speaker (I think).  The other note is that they could make the cuts and claim "we are saving these programs."  

 

I see the entire GOP punting the debt limit into the FY24 budget fight with some fig leaf cuts and efficiencies.  Ie.  "lets take back COVID spending".  I also see them going after Biden's college loan forgiveness program which will also hurt GOP in an election.  Ukraine spending could be there too. 

 

This process works way too slow.

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Cooked Crack]

This guy

 

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

Edited March 2, 2023 by Cooked Crack

[EmirOfShmo]