Just Had “The Talk” With My Son

[LadySkinsFan]

My dad got season tickets to the Redskins in 1963 when there wasn't a waiting list. They were in the nose bleed, freeze your ass section and we went every preseason and home game. Around my HS years (graduated '69) I stopped going. Through my parents divorce and everything, my brother and mother still went until 1997 when my mom had strokes and they went one game to the new stadium. My brother turned in the tickets after that season.

 

I was still a fan but less and less through these Snyder years. I moved to Texas in 2018. I don't see many games anymore and I always read the game day threads at least for a bit. I watch other games, only the ones that interest me. I don't have any favorite team.

 

BTW, I'm a Yankees fan and looking forward to the baseball playoffs, as long as they win!

 

 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, kleese said:

Yeah, the “I don’t care anymore” posts always make me chuckle a little bit. A message board dedicated to a football team is an odd place to spend your time if you don’t care about it 😁

 

Two notes from your reply: 

 

1. The “angst” is the only reason I do this. Always has been. That’s what’s on the line for me— a certain chunk of happiness/joy vs angst/frustration. If I don’t feel any of those things dependent on the outcome then it’s a pointless exercise to me. If I ever tuned in and truly didn’t care either way, I can’t imagine why I’d keep watching at all. 
 

2. I disagree on the product of the league now vs then. As a product of the 80s/90s I am of course somewhat biased to the “things were better in my day” thinking and there are certainly some aspects of the game I think were better back then. But the goal of the NFL was always to create a league of parity where everything mattered all the time. They actually failed at that back then. Just look at the NFC playoffs back in the 1980s. Blowout City. Very few close/engaging games. Absolutely dominant teams dominating. Some of that dominance was fun to watch— but 55-10 in the Super Bowl year after year got pretty old. I like the way the league is produced and marketed now and I like that it’s even more kid-friendly. 

I don't know. I'm here for QB prospect talk, I care in that sense of maybe something miraculous happens, and we back our way into a franchise QB and then possibilities, the open road at the end of terminator style, open up (that always reminded me of the drive between Nevada and Salt Lake on 80), but the actual passion and attention to watching, and living and dying in the monent of results began petering out for me sometime between the Zorn years and RGIII's knee injury and its handling. My watching collapsed after that. And I've spent probably 10,000x more time on the message boards than watching the games in the decade plus since. It is fair to say I've watched maybe 3 games in their entirety since December 2015. This after making the effort to drive to sports bars to watch with friends from 1997-2003 (in the bay area, games rarely on). 

 

The problem for me of being a fan of a team that's terrible is that if the franchise is terrible accidentally, there is hope (thats the 1993-1998 Cooke misery years), but the Snyder years torpedoed that hope and sent it to the bottom of the pacific. When your owner is incompetent, and megalomaniacal, like Snyder, the hope is dead until he's dead or sells. As such there is no hope whatsoever. 

 

That, I'm unwilling to inflict on my kid (and my wife would kill me if I tried to lol). 

 

When you know this team has no hope at all until the owner dies. That its a late stage Al Davis scenario, a Bill Bidwill scenario, a Clippers under Sterling scenario, I'd say the Indians/Guardians, because their owner is a cheap scumbag, but like the Loria scumbag, even being a cheap villain, you can hire smart people and still accidentally be successful and thats the Indians Guardians.

 

For me, I just can't inflict this on my kid. At least I got the joy of the eighties and early nineties. Those years (Gibbs I), literally mirrored every year of my public education other than the Pardee season preceeding it when I was a kindergartner. I had the heaven of four super bowl runs from 1st grade through 12th, of good teams that didn't quite get it done in 4th grade-6th grade ('84-'86 season), and the one blip ('88-'89) when I was in eighth and ninth grade. In retrospect, its hilarious how miserable 1988 made me, and how painful the Eagles loss, and somehow failing to make the playoffs after that lead (was it 21-0 1st quarter, 37-28 with 2 minutes and change left. I still remember that crap and it was September 1989). 

Anyway I had that, I had the great years of '82-'83, '86-'87, '91, and some reasonably good years around them and since then its been a slow but steady decline into a cess pool. I can't do that to him. It's literally been miserable for 29 years. TWENTY Nine Years, and since Snyder is reasonably young, it could stay miserable for another 3 decades. So, no.

 

I get the problem with the kids though, and it's my own problem too, if you dip them into this, its hard not to lock in. Because of how fandom worked, at least for our generation (I think the NBA star based fandom made kids changing teams easier for them than us), once I was in, I wasn't getting out, ever. So I can't quit this team. It's not possible, unless they folded. Im stuck. I can become apathetic, which I have, but I can't put on a Lions hat and pretend I'm a Swift and ASB fan just because Im sick of being a fan of a team thats made me miserable for several decades. I can't create new fandom out of nothing. It has to be born, and raised, or it just doesnt exist.

 

Are you guys natural Nats fans? I'm a Nats fan for a funny reason. I was an Expos fan, so when they moved to DC, it made it easy and legit, it is in my blood because I've been following the Expos since Dawson and Raines were their all stars, and they had Randy Johnson as a prospect they could throw away for a Mark Langston rental. If you guys can explain how you become Nats fans, and how it is as legit in feeling as redskins fandom it would maybe help me divorce this team lol.

 

But in truth, I still think its impossible for me. I will just be an apathetic fan, focused 10,000x more on fantasy football than on the redskins on sundays. Its just how this has played out over the years. Playing in my first league in '98, and becoming even more and more obssessed since (16 teams, 13 dynasty, 2 RSO, 1 Keeper). That's where I transferred my fandom. 

 

 

[Mursilis]

14 hours ago, kleese said:

Yeah, the “I don’t care anymore” posts always make me chuckle a little bit. A message board dedicated to a football team is an odd place to spend your time if you don’t care about it 😁

I still stop by for the schadenfreude.  Watching Snyder's gross mismanagement continually blow up in his face is way more fun that watching the actual games these days.  

[Long n Left]

16 hours ago, kleese said:

It was awkward. I was hoping to avoid it a bit longer. But it was time. 
 

Last night, after I finally calmed down a little (this loss REALLY bothered me) I called my 10 year old son into our room and had “the talk.” 
 

Over the past two years or so his football fandom has drastically increased. His first love was baseball and he’s been into that for awhile; football came a little later, but it’s come on strong. He’s playing tackle this year and I’m the Coach so that has only further enhanced his love of the game in general. 
 

He is also now a Commanders fan. Kinda had no choice. Took him to his first game in Dallas last week— he loved the scene but was very disappointed with the loss. Today we watched out on the deck and he said his stomach hurt as the game wound down. He quickly walked away as it ended— he was very ready to celebrate. I stewed. 
 

As the afternoon wore on, I started to feel a tangible guilt. What am I doing to my son. I’m locked in here. I’ve made that choice. Honestly I made it around 1998 BEFORE Snyder even bought the team. That first post-Gibbs rebuild attempt was a terrible disappointing failure and those teams killed me. I think people often forget those stretch of seasons and how they helped set the table for what was to come. 
 

But I’ve stayed “in it” just as passionate as ever— the entire time. Obviously my expectation level has changed. My MOOD about the team has changed. My confidence level has bottomed out. But my personal fandom level is just like it was in 1991. No change. I don’t begrudge anyone who has bailed or who doesn’t care much any longer— but that is not the case for me. 
 

But my son is pure. He doesn’t have to be here. So I sat him down last night and told him he was free to go. Explained that this was a “save yourself” situation and that he doesn’t need to be a Washington fan just because I am. Hell, we live in Oklahoma— I told him to feel free to pick the Chiefs or Bills or Bengals or whoever. This was his chance. Fly away and leave your grounded Dad behind. It’s cool. I’ll even buy you a jersey of your choice (he was wearing a McLaurin jersey as we talked). I explained the history and why people hate Snyder. That it’s a transient demographic and isn’t same situation as Lions or Bills where the home atmosphere has stayed strong despite ineptitude. 
 

He took it all in, looked right at me and told me he’s in. He doesn’t want to bail. Feels like it’s his team and the team he wants to root for. I admire his resolve and bravery; question his decision-making. Sins of the father I suppose. 
 

So we ride together I guess. Misery loves company. I can only hope that sometime in HIS lifetime the misery lifts. 

Okay, so if Social Services pays you a little visit this afternoon, I swear it wasn’t me!

[kleese]

4 hours ago, Redwards said:

But...he knows this is a 100% different organization now.  The previous one is extinct.  He hates the rest of the NFC East but has zero interest in the team playing in Washington.  He pities the fans and knows they've been used, abused, taken advantage of and lied to.  He knows they deserve and wants better for them.

 

I disagree here a bit. As a lifelong fan, I do not feel “abused” or “lied to” at all. Dan Snyder, the organization, etc owe me nothing. It’s a transaction. I’m the consumer. At no point have I felt misled. I know what they are and I know what I’m getting into each season. It is my choice to stay or go. Many have chosen to go. I choose to stay. They may not deserve me, but I do deserve them— I’m sticking around, so I get what I get. I feel the same for all fans. Some of it is a little melodramatic to me. 

[kleese]

3 hours ago, hail2skins said:

Just re-read the post and this........just no. The Norv years (with the possible exception of him having a son that now happens to be our OC) have ZERO to do with the crap we've gone through under overall. Did I mention that its been TWENTY THREE years now?

Obviously there is no excuse for Snyder. He’s had more than enough time to turn it around and if he was good at it, he would have done it long ago. My point in brining up 93-98 is that by the time Dan arrived I was ALREADY a pretty fractured fan— somewhat hardened by the incredible disappointment of those years. I mean in year 6 post Gibbs and year 5 of Norv we started 0-7. Can you imagine if two years from now Ron starts 0-7 and is brought back for another year after that? Bananas. The org was totally inept and a joke when Snyder took over. 
 

There is also a more tangible connection. JKC 100% messed up the stadium and the sale of the team. While other teams were getting ready to build state-of-the-art downtown-based stadiums in the late 90s through mid 2000s, we built a concrete bowl in the middle of nowhere. People hate the location and lack of ambiance at FedEx and that really has little to do with Snyder. More importantly, JKC screwed his own family out of the team— leaving it to chance whoever might purchase them. It was a chance that burned us badly. The truth is, by the time Dan arrived the Redskins were ALREADY crumbling. He sucks at it, so he was unable to fix or improve it. 

[hail2skins]

1 hour ago, kleese said:

There is also a more tangible connection. JKC 100% messed up the stadium and the sale of the team. While other teams were getting ready to build state-of-the-art downtown-based stadiums in the late 90s through mid 2000s, we built a concrete bowl in the middle of nowhere. People hate the location and lack of ambiance at FedEx and that really has little to do with Snyder. More importantly, JKC screwed his own family out of the team— leaving it to chance whoever might purchase them. It was a chance that burned us badly. The truth is, by the time Dan arrived the Redskins were ALREADY crumbling. He sucks at it, so he was unable to fix or improve it. 

The location has definitely been an issue from the get-go, and people who had upper deck tickets at RFK were none too pleased when their seats got pushed into the stratosphere at FedEx due to the big club level and multi-suite levels at the new place.

 

But there were a few charms from RFK that were brought over to the new stadium, like the PA announcer, the more active participation of the band, and the aforementioned kids area. Granted, those charms likely would've worn thin with the losing over time, but Snyder immediately dispensed with them for his corporate and rock and roll atmosphere. And then adding the dream seats in 2004 which meant that all of your lower level patrons have to stand all game. I talk to people who sit down there and they all HATE that aspect.

 

As for JKC, I read an article from some years ago where the old man really wanted the money from the team's sale to go into some beneficial foundation, which it did. JKC may have been even more of an SOB in life than Snyder is, but if that money did go to something helpful, its hard to find fault with that logic.

[kleese]

33 minutes ago, hail2skins said:

The location has definitely been an issue from the get-go, and people who had upper deck tickets at RFK were none too pleased when their seats got pushed into the stratosphere at FedEx due to the big club level and multi-suite levels at the new place.

 

But there were a few charms from RFK that were brought over to the new stadium, like the PA announcer, the more active participation of the band, and the aforementioned kids area. Granted, those charms likely would've worn thin with the losing over time, but Snyder immediately dispensed with them for his corporate and rock and roll atmosphere. And then adding the dream seats in 2004 which meant that all of your lower level patrons have to stand all game. I talk to people who sit down there and they all HATE that aspect.

 

As for JKC, I read an article from some years ago where the old man really wanted the money from the team's sale to go into some beneficial foundation, which it did. JKC may have been even more of an SOB in life than Snyder is, but if that money did go to something helpful, its hard to find fault with that logic.

That’s another thing that slays me when we get into the morality of Snyder. I’m not sure JKC would have lasted six months in today’s world. I’m not defending Snyder, just saying JKC is revered because he was a good owner in that once he had Beathard and Gibbs in place, he knew he had a good thing, he fostered those relationships, and he didn’t ever get in the way. Bottom line, he was a good owner. No one really gave a flying F about what kind of human being he was— plenty of stories out there. The problem for Dan is he sucks at being an owner so the fact that he seems to suck at everything else just adds to the pile-on. If he sold the team to a Saint who then produced football teams that went 5-12 every year, the fans would hate him too. 
 

As for the “kid friendly” stuff mentioned earlier— I didn’t specifically mean the in-stadium experience. I’m talking about how accessible and attractive the league is. When I was a kid, fantasy football was just at the opening stages of being mainstream and was played by adults. Now my son is in a league with his 10 year old teammates and they all track it via yahoo app. He also understands the basics of gambling (good Dad here). The players are marketed quite well; it’s great on tv now with added technology, etc.. and the games are close and meaningful most of the time. 

[ntotoro]

I keep thinking of the time JKC’s wife draped herself over the hood of his car (IIRC) in Georgetown. Yeah… that would have gone well on Twitter… 🤣

[hail2skins]

11 minutes ago, kleese said:

As for the “kid friendly” stuff mentioned earlier— I didn’t specifically mean the in-stadium experience. I’m talking about how accessible and attractive the league is. When I was a kid, fantasy football was just at the opening stages of being mainstream and was played by adults. Now my son is in a league with his 10 year old teammates and they all track it via yahoo app. He also understands the basics of gambling (good Dad here). The players are marketed quite well; it’s great on tv now with added technology, etc.. and the games are close and meaningful most of the time. 

Gotcha. But in so far as the attractiveness of the league, you look at instances like the roughing penalties just this weekend on Brady and Carr, and I just don't see how anyone can take this league as seriously as they once did.

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, kleese said:

Obviously there is no excuse for Snyder. He’s had more than enough time to turn it around and if he was good at it, he would have done it long ago. My point in brining up 93-98 is that by the time Dan arrived I was ALREADY a pretty fractured fan— somewhat hardened by the incredible disappointment of those years. I mean in year 6 post Gibbs and year 5 of Norv we started 0-7. Can you imagine if two years from now Ron starts 0-7 and is brought back for another year after that? Bananas. The org was totally inept and a joke when Snyder took over. 
 

There is also a more tangible connection. JKC 100% messed up the stadium and the sale of the team. While other teams were getting ready to build state-of-the-art downtown-based stadiums in the late 90s through mid 2000s, we built a concrete bowl in the middle of nowhere. People hate the location and lack of ambiance at FedEx and that really has little to do with Snyder. More importantly, JKC screwed his own family out of the team— leaving it to chance whoever might purchase them. It was a chance that burned us badly. The truth is, by the time Dan arrived the Redskins were ALREADY crumbling. He sucks at it, so he was unable to fix or improve it. 

That's something a ton of people forget, and the media as well forgets. The Redskins '93-'98 were complete horse manure in 1993, 1994, 1995, and 1998 (until the second half of the season when they ruined their draft slotting: they were dead last in the league in late October in record), 1996 was the famous 7-2 start following by 2-5 finish to inexplicably miss the playoffs, '97 was then the season with Westbrook nearly killing Stephen Davis (who was obscure then), and the famed Frerotte Headbutt choke against the giants....

 

'93-'98 was a house of horrors no doubt. The difference to me was that was the product of naive ownership, incompetent coaching, and terrible team building in the late eighties and early nineties in terms of utilizing the draft (so we got the '90-'92 run, but the cost was the following 3 years of misery due to getting nothing out of a half decade of bad drafts towards the end of Gibbs I) was fixable w/quality hires and a more engaged, intelligent owner. What we got instead was the stupidest, and most megalomaniacal owner in North American sports, and that is not fixable. If you have the worst owner across all sports on a continent, you are well and truly ----ed, and thats where we are. We could have dug our way out of the Turner hole. In the intervening 24 years since the '98 season there were innumerable elite coaches, GM's, and franchise QB's that could have been hired, or drafted by us, hell many were actually in our own organization, but we failed to draft any of them, and we failed to either hire or promote any of the relevant ones and we will continue to suck, forever, due to Snyder, till he's dead, sells, or is kicked out and forced to sell (I'll admit there are rare exceptions of incompetent, arrogant owners that win anyway, but they, almost across the board, haven't poisoned the franchise in the way Snyder did). 

[-9-]

20 hours ago, kleese said:

So we ride together ...

 

... and my 1 year old grandson has a Chase Young jersey he just grew out of.

 

 

[The Sisko]

5 hours ago, kleese said:

They may not deserve me, but I do deserve them— I’m sticking around, so I get what I get.

My god man!! You must go around disemboweling babies, punching nuns in the face, or kicking old ladies or something to deserve this team.

[kleese]

1 hour ago, The Sisko said:

My god man!! You must go around disemboweling babies, punching nuns in the face, or kicking old ladies or something to deserve this team.

If you’re still here, you get what you deserve. I’m still here. Still writhing in my seat, still pacing my deck at the end of the close game. I see the “Danger, SHARKS, Do NOT Swim” signs, and yet I wade out anyway. It’s on me, not them. 

Edited October 12, 2022 by kleese

[tomwvr]

9 hours ago, kleese said:

Obviously there is no excuse for Snyder. He’s had more than enough time to turn it around and if he was good at it, he would have done it long ago. My point in brining up 93-98 is that by the time Dan arrived I was ALREADY a pretty fractured fan— somewhat hardened by the incredible disappointment of those years. I mean in year 6 post Gibbs and year 5 of Norv we started 0-7. Can you imagine if two years from now Ron starts 0-7 and is brought back for another year after that? Bananas. The org was totally inept and a joke when Snyder took over. 
 

There is also a more tangible connection. JKC 100% messed up the stadium and the sale of the team. While other teams were getting ready to build state-of-the-art downtown-based stadiums in the late 90s through mid 2000s, we built a concrete bowl in the middle of nowhere. People hate the location and lack of ambiance at FedEx and that really has little to do with Snyder. More importantly, JKC screwed his own family out of the team— leaving it to chance whoever might purchase them. It was a chance that burned us badly. The truth is, by the time Dan arrived the Redskins were ALREADY crumbling. He sucks at it, so he was unable to fix or improve it. 

Jkc wanted a new stadium in dc. The mayor at the time told him no. There was nothing to be done. Fedex was probably the best available site at the time.

 

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

Wonderful Kleese and good on your boy for getting on board.

 

Iv had 25 years of misery being a West Ham fan across here in the UK, all the other young lads would support Manchester United, Liverpool etc. but my old man is West Ham and once your in that's it your locked in for life there's absolutely no never going back its a part of you.

 

When I started to discover the NFL some years back I also followed him into being a Washington Fan, I can't quite figure if he's taking the p*ss out of me or if its Stockholm syndrome but here I am on predominantly double misery weekends these days.

 

It's times like these that'll make the victories down the line that bit sweeter

[kleese]

1 hour ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Wonderful Kleese and good on your boy for getting on board.

 

Iv had 25 years of misery being a West Ham fan across here in the UK, all the other young lads would support Manchester United, Liverpool etc. but my old man is West Ham and once your in that's it your locked in for life there's absolutely no never going back its a part of you.

 

When I started to discover the NFL some years back I also followed him into being a Washington Fan, I can't quite figure if he's taking the p*ss out of me or if its Stockholm syndrome but here I am on predominantly double misery weekends these days.

 

It's times like these that'll make the victories down the line that bit sweeter

Your last sentence is the main thing that keeps me going. I keep telling myself they have to be REALLY good at least ONE more time before I die, right? Well, every year the “Right?” is said with less and less confidence and more fear, but the hope holds. And I figure if I stick it out fully, then if we ever do get back to a really good spot I’ll enjoy it all the more. Fear that if I jump now that I won’t be able to jump back on emotionally even if they are good again. Plenty of lousy people/leaders have lucked into good things. It’s happened in the sports world other places. I just keep hoping the sun shines on this dog’s arse sometime too. 

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

8 hours ago, tomwvr said:

Jkc wanted a new stadium in dc. The mayor at the time told him no. There was nothing to be done. Fedex was probably the best available site at the time.

 

 

I seem to recall that Cooke was so incensed with the DC mayor (Sharon Partt Dixon/Kelly) that he threatened to change the name of the team from 'Washington Redskins' to 'The Redskins' so they would have no affiliation with DC at all.

Edited October 12, 2022 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen

[The Sisko]

13 hours ago, kleese said:

If you’re still here, you get what you deserve. I’m still here. Still writhing in my seat, still pacing my deck at the end of the close game. I see the “Danger, SHARKS, Do NOT Swim” signs, and yet I wade out anyway. It’s on me, not them. 

It's more out of habit than anything else. I spend most of my time in the Tailgate and haven't watched a game since sometime early last season and probably won't for the foreseeable future. Eventually, even Charlie Brown learns his foot is never going to touch that football. I haven't completely checked out, it's more of a "Get back to me when Farquaad is gone" kind of thing. However, given my age, that's probably not happening in my lifetime.

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

On 10/10/2022 at 11:05 PM, kleese said:

Yeah, the “I don’t care anymore” posts always make me chuckle a little bit. A message board dedicated to a football team is an odd place to spend your time if you don’t care about it 😁

Eh, most of this can be attributed to habit.  As in following this team has been a habit for a lot of us for a major portion of our lives.  I can’t speak for all of us, but for me - I want to care.  I just have very little juice anymore and it’s generally not very entertaining on gameday.  I just cannot muster the fire I once had for this team.  

[The Consigliere]

I would say that the only part of the fandom that's left that's enjoyable for most of us is commiserating with one another over what's wrong and how to fix it or if its fixable. Fan's can have reached the point of "not caring" about the results really, but still enjoy dissecting the problems w/online friends they've gotten to know over decades. I'd say that 95% of the enjoyment I've had that's been redskins related since I first went on the internet in Jan of '96, is entirely connected to the forums I've been a part of. That's it. In terms of on the field performance, it's been miniscule. The 7-2 run to start '96, the chance to land a QB in the loaded '99 class (that busted like the loaded '18 class) after we started so poorly in '98 (0-7 start to season), the Spurrier delusion of '02, the Gibbs II intermission of misery '04-'07, the RGIII year in '12, and that's about it. Just about every other moment of joy has just been in sharing laughs with people on CPND and over here and that's about it. So its probably actually more than 95% online, and only 5% on the game itself and the team itself. 

[kleese]

4 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

I would say that the only part of the fandom that's left that's enjoyable for most of us is commiserating with one another over what's wrong and how to fix it or if its fixable. Fan's can have reached the point of "not caring" about the results really, but still enjoy dissecting the problems w/online friends they've gotten to know over decades. I'd say that 95% of the enjoyment I've had that's been redskins related since I first went on the internet in Jan of '96, is entirely connected to the forums I've been a part of. That's it. In terms of on the field performance, it's been miniscule. The 7-2 run to start '96, the chance to land a QB in the loaded '99 class (that busted like the loaded '18 class) after we started so poorly in '98 (0-7 start to season), the Spurrier delusion of '02, the Gibbs II intermission of misery '04-'07, the RGIII year in '12, and that's about it. Just about every other moment of joy has just been in sharing laughs with people on CPND and over here and that's about it. So its probably actually more than 95% online, and only 5% on the game itself and the team itself. 

Different strokes I suppose. It’s actually almost the exact opposite for me. I used to be WAY more active on here. Now I will often go weeks or even months without even logging in. I still have the same juice and enthusiasm for Gameday and the rituals and hopes that surround it, but I guess I’ve lost a little zest for the banter in between. That is likely attributable to the state of the team overall. 

[The Consigliere]

Oh, let me say, I'm no different at this point. I probably mentioned it elsewhere, but i posted daily at CPND from '96-'12, I was never as active here, but I definitely posted, especially around the draft and around scouting it since like '03 or whatever, and then came over here more starting in '16 or '17, but even w/that, my posting over here and CPND combined since probably 2015 is about 5% of what it once was. 

 

The big difference all in all is probably this:

 

I watched the Redskins consistently from childhood until 2013, then it sloughed off, and since McCloughan was canned, I've probably seen 3 complete games total. 

 

In terms of posting on message boards, I was a daily guy for decades until the last decade (2011-2020) when slowly but surely I went from semi-daily, to probably 100-300 posts around the draft, and that's a wrap. No inseason posting because I already know how the seasons will play out.

 

3 out of every 4 years the team will suck, typically somewhere between a 5-11 and a 7-9 caliber team in terms of the 16 game schedule.

1 out of every 4 years the team will surprise, and win enough to take the division or a wild card with a 10-6 caliber season, before getting blown out immediately in the playoffs.

 

In none of those years will the team have a legit franchise QB. It may have a reasonable middle of the road vet, but that's the best they'll have (or whatever you called Cousins, a compiler w/big numbers who chokes in big games?). 

 

So basically I'm gone typically from July through January, then I come in for draft talk, then I'm gone again.

 

My watching has evaporated, and my posting has shrunk by 90-95%. I've posted a lot lately just because the topics are interesting and its QB draft related beyond that since this redskins team obviously is gonna be bottom 10 again. 

 

I will add that I started replacing the Redskins with the USMNT circa 2002. That's been my favorite sporting event since the Super Bowl after the '91 season and I've gotten more consistent joy from the USMNT than any other sport or team though the dip due to the developmental disaster w/1990-1995 prospects which lead to missing the WC last cycle was the worst I've felt as a sports fan probably since the Super Bowl loss to the Raiders in '83. 

 

I don't anticipate reengaging as a redskins fan until Snyder dies or sells. A QB might do it, but honestly, I tend to think we'd just screw up a great QB prospect if we landed one. 

[kleese]

I just love Sundays still as much as always. I guess in that regard it’s always been more about me than them, so I don’t let them take that away from me. I liked being invested in the outcome and still very much enjoy the rituals of a football weekend. Even last year, I found the 4 game win streak super fun and was super pumped when they beat the Raiders- even though I never came close to “believing” in that team. I just enjoy/appreciate games in Oct-Dec that matter— even if only technically. I am totally fine operating with that type of tunnel vision. 
 

I also feel like if we ever get back on top— with or without Dan— that I’ll find it even sweeter and more gratifying knowing I stuck it out the entire time. If I ever checked out, I’m not confident I’d be able to ever get fully back in. 

[The Consigliere]

Well, that sounds infinitely more enjoyable than my experience of it which has largely been painful moving to completely apathetic. I shouldn't neglect to manage that my kid was born in '16 and as a result, I don't have the time to watch even if I wanted to (which I don't anymore), so I'll keep it on NFL network for the fantasy relevance, and focus mostly on watching Serie A, EPL, and Bundesliga on weekend mornings. I just enjoy that a lot more, but I certainly don't begrude you the joy you may get, after the past 29 years, anyone who can still get any joy from it deserves it, it's been a very long sentence, so to speak.