The All Things 2022 OTAs/Training Camp Thread

[NickyJ]

Re-sign Sweat now? Why? Did I miss a season or 2? Last I saw, he looked good for exactly 1 season out of 3 and spent the time before the 3rd one pumping himself and lil bro Chase up before falling flat on their faces. I'd like to re-sign him after more than a single good season and showing up to training camp in his 4th year.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Next year is Sweats contract year, not this year. Yall can pump those brakes. 

 

This is the Payne and Terry year.

 

Next year Sweat, Curl, Holcomb. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I know this isn't a Nats board but there's something about developing your own players. The Nats were doing that well until they got close then they were all about bringing in the guys to get them over the hump. We're not near the hump but we're bringing these guys in. I get that Samuel is a Ron guy but he's not a DC guy so I'm not partial to him. Harmon and Sims put up respectable numbers in their first times getting experience in the system. Plus they're not on this injury rollercoaster where we have to wonder if they're ready to play. 

Yes, and something like 80% of our roster has been drafted and developed.  Sims and Harmon have been training camp heroes for years, and then they haven't done anything in regular seasons for 2 different coaching staffs.  Granted, Harmon got hurt and missed an entire season.  

 

We have SO MUCH of our team that has been drafted at this point, I don't really care that much about having a few key pieces who are free agents, and I think it's absolutely fine if a prospect here or there fails.  That's going to happen.

 

I like Cam Sims, but every year we hear about how he's going to take that step forward, and then he can't get on the field even when there is literally nobody else around.  He has had flashes, but clearly something is missing because he's consistently just not out there.  

 

I'm all for drafting and developing guys. But I think we're doing that almost across the board.  I can't think of a position that doesn't have a starter or primary backup who isn't drafted.  All of the WRs with the exception of Samuel are drafted, all of the RBs, 2 starters and several depth guys on the OL, mostly all the DL, almost all the LBs.  The place that has the biggest mix is the secondary, where you have guys like Curl, St. Juste, Forrest and possibly Butler as high-impact drafted guys, and WJIII, McCain as FAs, and then put Fuller wherever you want to, he's both.  Drafted here and then signed as a FA.

 

I think we've got the draft and development thing covered.  So I care less about a few fringe roster guys.  

[Mrshadow008]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Next year is Sweats contract year, not this year. Yall can pump those brakes. 

 

This is the Payne and Terry year.

 

Next year Sweat, Curl, Holcomb. 

Out of those 3 I’m probably most worried about Curl. We’ve been in safety hell since Sean. Curl has the chance to be the best safety we’ve had since Sean. Not saying he’ll ever be at that type of level but safety has just been a black hole for so long 

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yes, and something like 80% of our roster has been drafted and developed.  Sims and Harmon have been training camp heroes for years, and then they haven't done anything in regular seasons for 2 different coaching staffs.  Granted, Harmon got hurt and missed an entire season.  

 

We have SO MUCH of our team that has been drafted at this point, I don't really care that much about having a few key pieces who are free agents, and I think it's absolutely fine if a prospect here or there fails.  That's going to happen.

 

I like Cam Sims, but every year we hear about how he's going to take that step forward, and then he can't get on the field even when there is literally nobody else around.  He has had flashes, but clearly something is missing because he's consistently just not out there.  

 

I'm all for drafting and developing guys. But I think we're doing that almost across the board.  I can't think of a position that doesn't have a starter or primary backup who isn't drafted.  All of the WRs with the exception of Samuel are drafted, all of the RBs, 2 starters and several depth guys on the OL, mostly all the DL, almost all the LBs.  The place that has the biggest mix is the secondary, where you have guys like Curl, St. Juste, Forrest and possibly Butler as high-impact drafted guys, and WJIII, McCain as FAs, and then put Fuller wherever you want to, he's both.  Drafted here and then signed as a FA.

 

I think we've got the draft and development thing covered.  So I care less about a few fringe roster guys.  

I think TE as well. I even count Logan in that group. We didn’t draft Logan but he was basically a bottom of the roster TE before he got here 

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

Hodges was my sneaky pick to impress going into camp.  Between Thomas, Bates, Turner, and Hodges (assuming he makes the cut), they could slice and dice people from the TE position.  

 

Yeah I watched what I could of him on youtube after we signed him and he came off to me at least as a dude with great potential.  

 

The one I am a bit surprised about and in a good way is Armani Rogers.   Multiple beat guys have said he looks good in camp.

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/chargers/draft/chargers-ohio-armani-rogers-nfl-draft-private-workout#gid=ci029e5bd1e00026ec&pid=usatsi_16825054

 

Rogers wasn’t invited to the NFL Combine but that hasn't stopped him from drawing the attention of teams. He's reportedly been on top-30 visits with the Seahawks and Dolphins.

His showing at the Shrine Bowl, putting together a solid week of practice, paired with his Pro Day efforts, have scouts and coaches across the league intrigued with what he can do at the next level.

 

 

Rogers was a participant at the UCLA Pro Day, posting a 4.56-second 40-yard dash, 4.31-second short shuttle, 7.20-second three-cone, 34 inches in the vertical jump and 10'10" in the broad jump.

Rogers isn't your traditional tight end prospect. He's endured a position change, having played quarterback throughout his college career at UNLV for his first three seasons prior to transferring to Ohio for his final two years of eligibility. However, as he prepares to make the leap into the NFL, Rogers will play tight end.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

Out of those 3 I’m probably most worried about Curl. We’ve been in safety hell since Sean. Curl has the chance to be the best safety we’ve had since Sean. Not saying he’ll ever be at that type of level but safety has just been a black hole for so long 

I think TE as well. I even count Logan in that group. We didn’t draft Logan but he was basically a bottom of the roster TE before he got here 

We've been in FS hell, not simply safety. Weve had plenty of decent SSs. Curl wont be a bank breaker either. 

[Thinking Skins]

46 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Yes, and something like 80% of our roster has been drafted and developed.  Sims and Harmon have been training camp heroes for years, and then they haven't done anything in regular seasons for 2 different coaching staffs.  Granted, Harmon got hurt and missed an entire season.  

 

We have SO MUCH of our team that has been drafted at this point, I don't really care that much about having a few key pieces who are free agents, and I think it's absolutely fine if a prospect here or there fails.  That's going to happen.

 

I like Cam Sims, but every year we hear about how he's going to take that step forward, and then he can't get on the field even when there is literally nobody else around.  He has had flashes, but clearly something is missing because he's consistently just not out there.  

 

I'm all for drafting and developing guys. But I think we're doing that almost across the board.  I can't think of a position that doesn't have a starter or primary backup who isn't drafted.  All of the WRs with the exception of Samuel are drafted, all of the RBs, 2 starters and several depth guys on the OL, mostly all the DL, almost all the LBs.  The place that has the biggest mix is the secondary, where you have guys like Curl, St. Juste, Forrest and possibly Butler as high-impact drafted guys, and WJIII, McCain as FAs, and then put Fuller wherever you want to, he's both.  Drafted here and then signed as a FA.

 

I think we've got the draft and development thing covered.  So I care less about a few fringe roster guys.  

But that's no reason not to play Sims. He was the second best WR on the team last year but got no play. Instead we're watched Brown drop balls and only run 9 routes. Instead we had to watch a return guy get not play over him. Or Humphries. Look at his catch percentages. Look at his yards per catch. He has talent. That's why we signed him. I'm not calling him some all star, but I think we should develop him because I think he's better than Samuel. 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

I love how we always assume we can sign any player to an extension (at team friendly prices) whenever we decide we want to do so. Players and their agents don’t operate that way. It takes two to do a deal. 
 

I like Toney’s potential in pass rushing packages. Excited to see him get reps.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

We're gonna regret not resigning Sweat to a long term deal when he'd be a lot cheaper. He's gonna break out and we're gonna have to pay him after a potentially ~15 sack season.

So, I went and looked it up.  What it says is rooky contracts are eligible to be renegotiated after the final game of their third season.  That would be this year.  However, I can't remember ANY good first round rookie being extended before their 4th year, for any team.  What almost all teams do with first rounders is exercise the 5th year option then re-negotiate the 5th year option year.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But that's no reason not to play Sims. He was the second best WR on the team last year but got no play. Instead we're watched Brown drop balls and only run 9 routes. Instead we had to watch a return guy get not play over him. Or Humphries. Look at his catch percentages. Look at his yards per catch. He has talent. That's why we signed him. I'm not calling him some all star, but I think we should develop him because I think he's better than Samuel. 

He wasn't the second best receiver on the team last year, as evidence by he didn't play.  That's your opinion, which is fine.  But don't state it as fact. 

 

I know what you're getting at: Ron won't play Cam and prefers to play "his guys" even though Cam is better.  I personally think that's pretty ludicrous.  Especially since Ron has shown that he's absolutely open to make a guy who was here before a team captain.  It happened with both Jon Allen and Terry McClaurin.  Neither of those guys are "Ron" guys.  But they both became Ron guys.  I think the idea that Ron only plays "his" guys is really silly.  

 

I get that you like Sims, but saying he is definitively better than anybody on the team that played in front of him is silly.  If he was that good, he would have played.  

 

He might be better than Samuel if Samuel can't play. 

 

If Samuel can play, it's not even remotely close and Samuel is MUCH MUCH MUCH better.

[Koolblue13]

20 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

But that's no reason not to play Sims. He was the second best WR on the team last year but got no play. Instead we're watched Brown drop balls and only run 9 routes. Instead we had to watch a return guy get not play over him. Or Humphries. Look at his catch percentages. Look at his yards per catch. He has talent. That's why we signed him. I'm not calling him some all star, but I think we should develop him because I think he's better than Samuel. 

He drops easy passes and runs **** routes is reason not to play him. Hes bad at WR. Hes a good locker room guy and special teamer and hes tall. 

 

If he was good, we wouldn't have signed 2 WRs last year or drafted one in the first this year.

 

And I like him. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

22 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, I went and looked it up.  What it says is rooky contracts are eligible to be renegotiated after the final game of their third season.  That would be this year.  However, I can't remember ANY good first round rookie being extended before their 4th year, for any team.  What almost all teams do with first rounders is exercise the 5th year option then re-negotiate the 5th year option year.

 

 

He wasn't the second best receiver on the team last year, as evidence by he didn't play.  That's your opinion, which is fine.  But don't state it as fact. 

 

I know what you're getting at: Ron won't play Cam and prefers to play "his guys" even though Cam is better.  I personally think that's pretty ludicrous.  Especially since Ron has shown that he's absolutely open to make a guy who was here before a team captain.  It happened with both Jon Allen and Terry McClaurin.  Neither of those guys are "Ron" guys.  But they both became Ron guys.  I think the idea that Ron only plays "his" guys is really silly.  

 

I get that you like Sims, but saying he is definitively better than anybody on the team that played in front of him is silly.  If he was that good, he would have played.  

 

He might be better than Samuel if Samuel can't play. 

 

If Samuel can play, it's not even remotely close and Samuel is MUCH MUCH MUCH better.

 

Kyler Murray was extended after his 3rd year. Probably given too much money, and had the embarrassing homework clause. 

 

Another one was JJ Watt.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Always A Commander Never A Captain

[Thinking Skins]

21 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, I went and looked it up.  What it says is rooky contracts are eligible to be renegotiated after the final game of their third season.  That would be this year.  However, I can't remember ANY good first round rookie being extended before their 4th year, for any team.  What almost all teams do with first rounders is exercise the 5th year option then re-negotiate the 5th year option year.

 

 

He wasn't the second best receiver on the team last year, as evidence by he didn't play.  That's your opinion, which is fine.  But don't state it as fact. 

 

I know what you're getting at: Ron won't play Cam and prefers to play "his guys" even though Cam is better.  I personally think that's pretty ludicrous.  Especially since Ron has shown that he's absolutely open to make a guy who was here before a team captain.  It happened with both Jon Allen and Terry McClaurin.  Neither of those guys are "Ron" guys.  But they both became Ron guys.  I think the idea that Ron only plays "his" guys is really silly.  

 

I get that you like Sims, but saying he is definitively better than anybody on the team that played in front of him is silly.  If he was that good, he would have played.  

 

He might be better than Samuel if Samuel can't play. 

 

If Samuel can play, it's not even remotely close and Samuel is MUCH MUCH MUCH better.

Yeah. We just disagree on this. I'm not saying Ron has a tendency to do this. Just with Sims. I don't know why but it sucks, especially when he was the best WR on the team not named Terry in 2020 and a good WR last year but he wasn't getting the playing time of Humphries or Brown or Carter. 

[bowhunter]

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah. We just disagree on this. I'm not saying Ron has a tendency to do this. Just with Sims. I don't know why but it sucks, especially when he was the best WR on the team not named Terry in 2020 and a good WR last year but he wasn't getting the playing time of Humphries or Brown or Carter. 

I really liked Sims a few years ago when he appeared to be a great find, and grew frustrated with his lack of play. But that ended 3 years ago when he began to impress less. IMO, he's a JAG (granted, he's "our" JAG, but he's still a JAG.) My frustration was the release of Harmon after he came back from the injury. Harmon is a tough in your face possession receiver, and the only one we have. I get Pierre-Garcon vibes with every catch he makes. He's not fast, but he finds a way to bully the defender and play the ball whenever needed.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Next year is Sweats contract year, not this year. Yall can pump those brakes. 

 

This is the Payne and Terry year.

 

Next year Sweat, Curl, Holcomb. 

Sweat has accrued three seasons and is thus eligible for an extension.

 

A smart team would give him a solid deal now which might look like an overpay, but would turn into a bargain when he starts putting up double digit sack seasons. But perhaps Sweat isn't interested in signing until he has his big break out year.

 

But our penchant for waiting until the last minute to re-sign players causes us to pay more than we could, and caused Scherff to outright walk.

[Voice_of_Reason]

48 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Yeah. We just disagree on this. I'm not saying Ron has a tendency to do this. Just with Sims. I don't know why but it sucks, especially when he was the best WR on the team not named Terry in 2020 and a good WR last year but he wasn't getting the playing time of Humphries or Brown or Carter. 

It's because Ron doesn't think Sims is as good as you think he is.  And given he's the HC, he gets to make the decision.

 

To me, for a coach who has pretty much proven he will be willing to play anybody who can actually play, who benched the owner's hand-picked QB of the future after 4 games, if Cam can't get on the field, that's more on Cam than it is on Ron.  

 

We'll see what happens this year.  They did re-sign him to a 1 year deal worth $2.5 million, with a $1.5m signing bonus.  So, they like him enough to do that.  

 

If he can't get on the field, that's entirely on him at this point.  

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sweat has accrued three seasons and is thus eligible for an extension.

 

A smart team would give him a solid deal now which might look like an overpay, but would turn into a bargain when he starts putting up double digit sack seasons. But perhaps Sweat isn't interested in signing until he has his big break out year.

 

But our penchant for waiting until the last minute to re-sign players causes us to pay more than we could, and caused Scherff to outright walk.

So, here's the counter to that: Sweat has absolutely not earned a new solid deal.  He's been "ok" to "good."  He massively underperformed last year and then got hurt, then got COVID, then missed time for personal reasons.  I'm not blaming him for any of that, but you don't offer up a big contract extension based on that. 

 

And Sweat, who's 5th year has been picked up already, would not accept a low-market deal. He has 2 more years to prove he deserves a top-end deal.  

 

The right thing happened:  wait and see.

 

 

[NickyJ]

I like Cam Sims. I really do, and I think he gets short-changed by a lot of people, especially after serving basically as WR2 at the end of 2020.

 

Cam Sims is Ryan Grant material. What they succeed at is extremely different, but the results are the same. They are there for you to break the glass when there's an emergency and provide you with the bare minimum of a veteran NFL player who doesn't suck enough to get cut. If we had to rely on Sims over Dotson, Brown, and that guy who touched the ball 10 times last season, that is an emergency and I hope we'll never experience it.

Edited August 4, 2022 by NickyJ

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I like Cam Sims. I really do, and I think he gets short-changed by a lot of people, especially after serving basically as WR2 at the end of 2020.

 

Cam Sims is Ryan Grant material. What they succeed at is extremely different, but the results are the same. They are there for you to break the glass when there's an emergency and provide you with the bare minimum of a veteran NFL player who doesn't suck enough to get cut. If we had to rely on Sims over Dotson, Brown, and that guy who touched the ball 10 times last season, that is an emergency and I hope we'll never experience it.

Eh, I think Sims might be a bit better than Grant.  He has more size, at least.  

 

But yeah, he's just a guy.  Now, being just a guy in the NFL is no small feat.  So, good on him.  

 

He got a contract that would give him every opportunity to play.  Clearly they like him, or they wouldn't have re-signed him.  And note that they re-signed him and not whatshisnugget who was the returner last year.  

 

But if he still doesn't get reps, it's not because of any hidden agenda.  It's because he's not that good.  

[KDawg]

The tales are warm in here for sure…

 

Curl is our biggest priority next offseason - not Sweat. I don’t care what kind of year Sweat has. I like Montez, I think he’s good, but even with a fantastic season this year he hasn’t lived up to the hype and the money he’s going to want. Curl, however, has over delivered and has played as if he were a first or second rounder. In recent seasons I’d go ahead and say that Curl might be our best overall defensive player along with Jon Allen. 
 

As far as Sims: every year we talk about him and every year he barely hangs on or makes it but doesn’t see the field. I can absolutely see a situation where something like that happens again, but thinking he’s more than that is just not grounded in reality.

 

Tight end room is crowded. We will need to find space for Turner (flex tight end/receiver). Thomas and Bates are virtual locks. Reyes/Hodges/Rodgers may actually be competing for two spots and 5/6 tight ends might make this roster. We are weaker at the back end of the receiver spot but Gibson, McKissick, Turner, Rodgers and even Logan Thomas can all line up at the receiver spot. Flexibility is the name of the game. Wouldn’t be surprised if Dyami and Sims aren’t here or aren’t on the main roster. At all.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if Dyami and Sims aren’t here or aren’t on the main roster. At all.

Everything up to that point made a lot of sense.  They're not cutting their third round pick from last year after one year with TH at QB, and when he was forced into a role he wasn't ready for.

 

Cam Sims?  I could see them cutting. Though I'm not sure.  

 

I'm really starting to wonder if TH might be in trouble for a roster spot IF AND ONLY IF Howell beats him out cleanly for the backup job.  Because as you said, they are going to want to keep a bunch of TEs, and will keep (I believe) at least McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel, Brown, and probably a returner either Milne or that other guy who's name I can't remember.

 

The last of the roster, the competition isn't between guys in the same position group, it's between position groups.  I do wonder if they are going to have to make a decision about TE4 vs. QB3 or something like that.

 

In the end, the smart money is they carry 3 QBs.  But IF AND ONLY IF Howell beats TH out for the backup job cleanly, I could see that spot being in play.  

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Brown has a knack for getting down field very quickly, which is the offense we want to run. Especially now with Wentz throwing and hes WR4, not being thrust into WR2 as a rookie. Zero chance he gets cut. And he has a great report with Howell. 

 

Cam is tall, so he has that going for him in a room of small WRs.

 

We'll carry 10 Oline and 3 RBs. If we carry 4 TEs, which looks realistic and 2 QBs are locks, that leaves 6 spots and I dont see us only carrying 5 WRs. Brown, Sims, Milne, Heinicke are the bottom of the offensive roster. 

 

Although with only 4 LBers, we could go 10 DL, 10 DB, which leaves the door open.

[KDawg]

37 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Everything up to that point made a lot of sense.  They're not cutting their third round pick from last year after one year with TH at QB, and when he was forced into a role he wasn't ready for.

 

Cam Sims?  I could see them cutting. Though I'm not sure.  

 

I'm really starting to wonder if TH might be in trouble for a roster spot IF AND ONLY IF Howell beats him out cleanly for the backup job.  Because as you said, they are going to want to keep a bunch of TEs, and will keep (I believe) at least McLaurin, Dotson, Samuel, Brown, and probably a returner either Milne or that other guy who's name I can't remember.

 

The last of the roster, the competition isn't between guys in the same position group, it's between position groups.  I do wonder if they are going to have to make a decision about TE4 vs. QB3 or something like that.

 

In the end, the smart money is they carry 3 QBs.  But IF AND ONLY IF Howell beats TH out for the backup job cleanly, I could see that spot being in play.  

 

 

Ultimately I think Dyami makes the team. Cam? I’d say no.

 

McLaurin

Dotson

Samuels

 

After that I think Milne sticks and maybe Erickson. Though probably not both. That leaves one spot if we keep 5. Likely Brown. 
 

I’d keep 5 active roster and 5 tight ends and 3 backs. But that’s 26 guys. I’d rather keep two of Rodgers/Hodges/Reyes and Thomas, Bates and Turner than keep Cam Sims.

 

Practice squad would be a great place to stash a guy like Ezzard as a return man as well. 
 

But I can see a world where Brown is left off, Turner makes it in his place as a flex guy. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Brown has a knack for getting down field very quickly, which is the offense we want to run. Especially now with Wentz throwing and hes WR4, not being thrust into WR2 as a rookie. Zero chance he gets cut. And he has a great report with Howell. 

 

Cam is tall, so he has that going for him in a room of small WRs.

 

We'll carry 10 Oline and 3 RBs. If we carry 4 TEs, which looks realistic and 2 QBs are locks, that leaves 6 spots and I dont see us only carrying 5 WRs. Brown, Sims, Milne, Heinicke are the bottom of the offensive roster. 

 

Although with only 4 LBers, we could go 10 DL, 10 DB, which leaves the door open.

 

Except beat writers are saying it's basically just 9 routes he's running well. Posts or other deeper routes he's not separating.

 

One of the criticisms of Howell entering the draft was a simplistic offense. Well maybe the scheme was built around the limited WR's instead of a limited QB? (Or both...)

 

But Dyami was drafted on the assumption his scheme was limiting him. Instead of accentuating his only ability.

 

Our WR depth is atrocious. Somehow, thankfully, our TE depth is the opposite. I can see us keeping only 5 WR's and loading up on extra TE's.

[Commander Wolffe]

Agreed, but Turner could replace Simms as the tall Wr.

 

Terry, Jahan, Curtis. Dyami, (returner), Turner(big slot, TE)

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Except beat writers are saying it's basically just 9 routes he's running well. Posts or other deeper routes he's not separating.

 

One of the criticisms of Howell entering the draft was a simplistic offense. Well maybe the scheme was built around the limited WR's instead of a limited QB? (Or both...)

 

But Dyami was drafted on the assumption his scheme was limiting him. Instead of accentuating his only ability.

 

Our WR depth is atrocious. Somehow, thankfully, our TE depth is the opposite. I can see us keeping only 5 WR's and loading up on extra TE's.

Hope so. I love seeing multiple TE formations.

 

And if WR4 is only good at running 9 routes, that's fine for now. We've got plenty of weapons doing the rest.