2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

We’d be stupid to rule anything out or draft a much lesser player because they are OL. There are really only 2 OL who are firsts in most other years. Dawand/Wright, although guys who definitely have potential and ability, are 2s in other drafts.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Another indication that Edge is in play.

 

 

Even for the draft to need guys -- is edge really that far from a need?

 

I get that they drafted D lineman after D lineman but...

 

A.   D line is their strength, why not keep it that.  

 

B.  They don't have much depth at that spot.  Even if they kept all 4 D lineman is it really that much of a luxury to have another edge for depth and rotational purposes?  The Eagles for example see having depth and rotational players as a necessity, not a luxury.  why not us?

 

C. Both Sweat and Chase have missed many games in the last 2 years -- the odds that a rookie edge ends up starting plenty of games is good

 

D. It gives us some flexibility for the cap -- because the odds are we will lose Sweat or Chase and this would make it easier for us to trade one of them

Edited April 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We’d be stupid to rule anything out or draft a much lesser player because they are OL. There are really only 2 OL who are firsts in most other years. Dawand/Wright, although guys who definitely have potential and ability, are 2s in other drafts.

I could personally be tempted to add Torrence to that, but very late first if we moved back. But at that stage I’d also be hoping Branch or Kincaid was still there.
 

I don’t get this OL group. To me it’s clear Rivera doesn’t either.

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Even for the draft to need guys -- is edge really that far from a need?

 

I get that they drafted D lineman after D lineman but...

 

A.   D line is their strength, why not keep it that.  

 

B.  They don't have much depth at that spot.  Even if they kept all 4 D lineman is it really that much of a luxury to have another edge for depth and rotational purposes?  The Eagles for example see having depth and rotational players as a necessity, not a luxury.  why not us?

 

C. Both Sweat and Chase have missed many games in the last 2 years -- the odds that a rookie edge ends up starting plenty of games is good

 

D. It gives us some flexibility for the cap -- because the odds are we will lose Sweat or Chase and this would make it easier for us to trade one of them

Agree. Said some time ago, #16 and #47 could be CB and Edge for me, either order. D gets nasty really quick.

[RWJ]

4 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I could personally be tempted to add Torrence to that, but very late first if we moved back. But at that stage I’d also be hoping Branch or Kincaid was still there.
 

I don’t get this OL group. To me it’s clear Rivera doesn’t either.

Agree. Said some time ago, #16 and #47 could be CB and Edge for me, either order. D gets nasty really quick.

What happens if you lose Leno?  OL all the way after a trade down.  Use our 3rd or 4th for EDGE.  EDGE is deep this year.  Good value on Day 3 even.   

[London Kev]

I'm happy to trade back a little as long as our first two picks are OL and CB in any order.

 

I don't want us to trade back too far for a really selfish reason. The draft doesn't start until midnight and trading back means less sleep. Less sleep means that I'll be a cranky ****er all the next day.

Edited April 20, 2023 by London Kev

[Est.1974]

Just now, London Kev said:

I'm happy to trade back a little as long as our first two picks are OL and CB in any order.

 

I don't want us to trade back too far for a really selfish reason. The draft doesn't start until midnight and trading back means less sleep. Less sleep means that I'll be a cranky mother****er all the next day.

I’m already thinking the first day of the draft is a write off. We’ll be picking about 5am 

9 minutes ago, RWJ said:

What happens if you lose Leno?  OL all the way after a trade down.  Use our 3rd or 4th for EDGE.  EDGE is deep this year.  Good value on Day 3 even.   

Not sure I see many players in this draft I want trotting out to play LT in 2023.

[DWinzit]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Wypler.  I mention him every now and then.  Solid in pass protection.  Moves well in the run game.  High floor player,

 

IMO -- Wypler, JMS, Stromberg, Tippman are good players, high floor.  Olu and Forsyth and Scruggs IMO a peg behind but solid, too. 

If a team is to take advantage of this draft class they would hope to draft CB and Edge early then start looking at RB, TE, LB and it would be a shame not to leave with one the first five you list above or Avila for a future starting C. Then double dip on DB's

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

If a team is to take advantage of this draft class they would hope to draft CB and Edge early then start looking at RB, TE, LB and it would be a shame not to leave with one the first five you list above or Avila for a future starting C. Then double dip on DB's

 

To add, the mid-rounds look to me more interesting than the typical draft.

 

Safety, Edge, TE, RB -- if some of these mocks are on the money all of those positions have a group of players of a similar tier that will be available in that range.  

 

Safety isn't a strong class but there is a whole bunch of a players in similar range who look to be available in the mid rounds.  

 

And RB, TE, edge look unusually strong in that range.

 

As for center i am guessing Stromberg might still be there in the third.   I like Alex Forsyth so if they miss out on the upper tier group, I'd be cool with him, I guess he goes in the 5th round range.

 

I know we usually like trading down in drafts but IMO this one is a trade down draft on steroids IMO.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Mock draft simulators are only so accurate/reflective of what would/should/could happen on draft night. But a couple guys I just have a good gut feeling on (similar to my Forrest love a couple years ago) are LSU CB Mekhi Garner and Illinois S/CB Jartavius Martin. Mock drafts have Martin goin in the mid-late 3rd ... Garner in the 5th.

 

If we don't hit CB in the 1st-2nd those two would be my targets in the 3rd and 4th round respectively. Would love to add another 3rd and 4th to give flexibility to do that. Some sites list Martin as a Safety, others a CB. And Garner is a long fast CB that could be groomed. We've been successful hitting mid-round DBs, and I would feel really good leaving the draft with one or both of these guys. 

[Est.1974]

I’ll put out there Branch if we trade back. Seems like a perfect fit to me. Just not at #16.

[DWinzit]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To add, the mid-rounds look to me more interesting than the typical draft.

 

Safety, Edge, TE, RB -- in some of these mocks are on the money all of those positions have a group of players of a similar tier that will be available in that range.  

 

Safety isn't a strong class but there is a whole bunch of a players in similar range who look to be available in the mid rounds.  

 

And RB, TE, edge look unusually strong in that range.

 

As for center i am guessing Stromberg might still be there in the third.   I like Alex Forsyth so if they miss out on the upper tier group, I'd be cool with him, I guess he goes in the 5th round range.

 

I know we usually like trading down in drafts but IMO this one is a trade down draft on steroids IMO.

Yes the draft is very strong from the 2nd-4th and even into the 5th round. After that there are are still quality players at certain positions.

 

Part of my point was the T-G position isn't that hot but we supposedly identified that as a round 1 or 2 priority. I still feel one of those Centers is the best value option if you are identifying an OL want in this draft. And I'd hit it by the 3rd round. Expect to be looking at the strength of Edge and CB early.

 

If a good OL falls in your lap as a value pick, then go for it! There are a few that could. At Tackle I really like Carter Warren in the mid rounds...

Edited April 20, 2023 by DWinzit

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Yes the draft is very strong from the 2nd-4th and even into the 5th round. After that there are are still quality players at certain positions.

 

Part of my point was the T-G position isn't that hot but we supposedly identified that as a round 1 or 2 priority. I still feel one of those Centers is the best value option if you are identifying an OL want in this draft. And I'd hit it by the 3rd round. Expect to be looking at the strength of Edge and CB early.

I’ve said before, I think the team really like Avila as that C/G option. It’s needs moving picks around to get him though IMO.

[The Rook]

With all the discussions about selecting offensive line being made inside and outside the organization, I would feel a lot better if the team had a current offensive line coach. 

 

Wonder what the hold-up is?  Bienemy going to wear that cap also?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'm trying this mock draft simulator with trade-downs to really try to make it so either Harrison or Wright aren't there and the top pick to simulate what would happen IF we traded down and then didn't go OT early and instead went more BPA and drafted an Edge like some here are hoping for. It's tough to do. But I finally found one that might work. Double-trade-down out of Round 1 entirely.

38: BJ Ojulari, DE LSU

47: John Michael Schmitz, C Minnesota

56: Drew Sanders, LB Arkansas

70: Jatavius Martin, S/CB Illinois

97: Tyler Steen, OT Alabama

118: Mekhi Garner, CB LSU

 

This would be close to a BPA draft. I doubt we double-trade-down. But the first trade-down (with Jacksonville) still had Wright and Harrison there as BPA. Since I am/was trying to avoid that scenario, I traded back again with the Raiders, getting 38 and 70 back. 

 

Ojulari is your 3rd rotational edge. JMS is your starting Center (Gates to LG). Sanders is your new Holcomb. Martin is your nickelback/safety sub-in. Steen is your backup RT and possibly replacement for Wylie some day. Garner is your pure CB who is added for long-term development behind Fuller and St. Juste.

 

I don't hate it tbh. I would prefer to get a true day 1 starter at RT and flipping Wylie to LG. But JMS+Steen are a nice consolation prize (I don't think JMS will be there at 47 personally). You still get your DE, LB, S, CB all before R5 while addressing the OL with a starter and a depth / developmental piece.

Edited April 20, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'm trying this mock draft simulator with trade-downs to really try to make it so either Harrison or Wright aren't there

 

I don't hate it tbh. I would prefer to get a true day 1 starter at RT and flipping Wylie to LG. But JMS+Steen are a nice consolation prize (I don't think JMS will be there at 47 personally). You still get your DE, LB, S, CB all before R5. 

There aren't many day one RT starters. You never know how players acclimate to the speed of the game, the new terminologies, schemes, different position, etc...

So you figure maybe Wright, B Jones, Dawand, and Berg maybe?

Edited April 20, 2023 by DWinzit

[Skinsinparadise]

Nolan Smith, edge, 6 '2, 236,  Really good player.  Also >>>> IMO the tackles we talk about.  I think he'd be great in that sort of Hassan Reddick role where he can come at you off the ball.

 

Smith, Van Ness, Murphy -- one of these guys, maybe 2 of them will likely be there at 16.  All three intriguing IMO for different reasons.  All three you are betting to some extent on potential but all of them are high ceiling players IMO because of their athleticism. 

 

9.22 RAS, sick speed for a pass rusher albiet at his size I would expect high end speed.  He's coming off a Pec injury so didn't play much last season, so just 2 sacks.  7 sacks the season before.

 

He plays bigger than his size and that surprised me. I expected basically a speed rusher who relies on his athleticism and would be Johnny One note on that front.  But he actually has some really strong hands and surprisingly he's good at shedding blocks both when he rushes the passer and against the run. 

 

He doesn't have great bend but its OK and he starts his stance when his hand is in the dirt low where his hips are already more sunk than the typical edge rusher.   He springs out of his stance quickly.  Takes good angles to the passer. 

 

He looks fluid in coverage.  They moved him from right to left, sometimes on the inside.  Although he had just a small sample this season, his pass rush win rate charter by PFF was sick, 25.5% which I believe is the highest number for this ege group.

 

Well rounded player -- good against the run, fluid in coverage, good pass rusher, plays off the ball and with his hand in the dirt, high character 

 

The knock I gather is size, production, injury.   And while he can shed tackles in college surprisingly well -- that might not be the same in the pros facing bigger and stronger O linemen. 

 

But i think having this dude come off the ball, Micah Parsons, Reddick style with this defense could be wicked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

There aren't many day one RT starters. You never know how players acclimate to the speed of the game, the new terminologies, schemes etc...

So you figure maybe Wright, B Jones, Dawand, and Berg maybe?

I really hope we just stick with Wylie at RT. Just aced the SB playing there. Not seeing the point of putting him at LG to be honest.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I really hope we just stick with Wylie at RT. Just aced the SB playing there. Not seeing the point of putting him at LG to be honest.

Yeah I think even they drafted one of those guys other than Dawand who I don't think could play G, i'd say there is a chance the start at LG and keep Wylie outside. That is unless they out play him in preseason. 

 

I should have had PJJ and maybe Skor on my earlier list

[Rex Tomb]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Yeah I think even they drafted one of those guys other than Dawand who I don't think could play G, i'd say there is a chance the start at LG and keep Wylie outside. That is unless they out play him in preseason. 

 

I should have had PJJ and maybe Skor on my earlier list

Trade back and pick up Anton Harrison.  Dude is an absolute wall in pass pro.

[Buddha]

So let's say Robinson falls to #16.  Several teams call to trade up for him including DAL, NYG, and/or PHI and they are putting up the best offers.  Do you trade the pick to an NFC East foe for the best package of picks or take a lesser offer to keep Robinson out of the division?

[Rex Tomb]

8 minutes ago, Buddha said:

So let's say Robinson falls to #16.  Several teams call to trade up for him including DAL, NYG, and/or PHI and they are putting up the best offers.  Do you trade the pick to an NFC East foe for the best package of picks or take a lesser offer to keep Robinson out of the division?

Definitely keep him out of the division.  Or take him for ourselves.  How often does a weapon like that fall into our laps.

[Warhead36]

Nolan Smith will be a terror as a 3-4 OLB/Edge. Not sure which teams run that scheme though in the top 10. Falcons maybe?

10 minutes ago, Buddha said:

So let's say Robinson falls to #16.  Several teams call to trade up for him including DAL, NYG, and/or PHI and they are putting up the best offers.  Do you trade the pick to an NFC East foe for the best package of picks or take a lesser offer to keep Robinson out of the division?

Have the three bid against each other and see if you can get a mother lode of picks. I personally don't care about trading or not trading within the division. Do what you have to do to make YOUR team better. If you're confident in your defense you ain't gonna be afraid of no rookie RB anyway.

[DWinzit]

31 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Trade back and pick up Anton Harrison.  Dude is an absolute wall in pass pro.

I like Harrrison a lot. He is however strictly a LT. If you draft him he must be capable of starting there right away or sits on the bench. That's why in that convo they werre asking about RT and movements to G. 

If Harrison can start, great, we can love Leno to LG. I believe Harrrison will become a better player than Leno. The question is, would RR draft a guy if he may have to sit with his first pick in possibly his last draft with the team. 

[Warhead36]

11 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I like Harrrison a lot. He is however strictly a LT. If you draft him he must be capable of starting there right away or sits on the bench. That's why in that convo they werre asking about RT and movements to G. 

If Harrison can start, great, we can love Leno to LG. I believe Harrrison will become a better player than Leno. The question is, would RR draft a guy if he may have to sit with his first pick in possibly his last draft with the team. 

While Leno was mostly solid last year, he's getting older and more expensive. If we draft Harrison and he can start day one, we can cut Leno and use those cap savings on future team upgrades while having a potential solid starting LT on a rookie contract with upside. It'd still be a fine pick. 

 

A few mocks have Harrison going to Pittsburgh at 17 though so...we'll see.