2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mhd24]

Bijan isn’t making it to us.  I think he goes to 10.  Too clean of a prospect in a year that lacks blue chip talent.  Chicago makes sense.  He’s not falling past New England at 14

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Bijan isn’t making it to us.  I think he goes to 10.  Too clean of a prospect in a year that lacks blue chip talent.  Chicago makes sense.  He’s not falling past New England at 14

Daniel Jeremiah basically said there is no chance Philly takes him at 10(he worked in that FO for two years and know how they work really well). Howie Roseman does not value RBs at all. I think they take Jalen Carter at 10. 

 

I'd say there's a pretty good chance Robinson drops to 16, which could open up some real interesting trade possibilities with teams like Buffalo, Cincy, etc. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Warhead36

[Darth Tater]

55 minutes ago, Buddha said:

So let's say Robinson falls to #16.  Several teams call to trade up for him including DAL, NYG, and/or PHI and they are putting up the best offers.  Do you trade the pick to an NFC East foe for the best package of picks or take a lesser offer to keep Robinson out of the division?

Teams in the NFC east MUST pay premium prices for me to trade with them.  However, given that Philly has now gone from suck to NFC championship quickly 3 times in the last 24 years, I'd be a bit wary of any trades with them.

[Skinsinparadise]

Will McDonald, 6 '3, 239.  35 inch arms.  Similar idea to Nolan Smith.  You can use him off the ball.   If he falls to 47, he's intriguing.  I like Nolan Smith more because of his speed and all around game.

 

I am feeling too lazy to write up much but a snap shot for me is:

 

He'd be an older rookie, 24 years old.    10 forced fumbles in his career. is a sick number. 

 

Wicked spin move, his go to move.  Swim move, rip move, chop.  He was a handful at the Senior Bowl for some blockers. Like Smith, he plays with his hand in the dirt and off the ball.

 

9.66 RAS.  He doesn't have Nolan Smith's speed.  He ran 4.66 versus Nolan's 4.39.  But he has some wicked agility numbers.  His super power IMO is being slippery -- mostly using his spin move, where he starts one way and redirects the opposite way and knows how to use his long arms-length.   Decent against the run from what I saw,

 

In the games I watched I saw Nolan play coverage much more than Will did.  They both start their stance bending their hips super low to the ground, Will's stance looks even lower. 

 

He also could fit that Reddick type of role but IMO Nolan Smith is a more natural fit for that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim's new podcaast. i was sort of half listening to need to relisten tomorrow morning. so I might have misinterpreted a thing or two but if so I'll say so on the relisten.

 

A.  Keim said he has less of an idea what they will do this year than previous years.  He mentioned he usually has a good idea of 3-4 players they like a lot at this juncture. I can vouch for that.  So am surprised it hasn't happened this time.   He's said part of it is he's been probing more about the ownership story versus their draft intentions. 

 

B.  in the 2nd round hinted to watch for Musgrave and Laporta.  It sounded like he was going to elaborate some more but Bram annoyingly interrupted Keim's thought when he started talking about TEs.

 

C.  Seemed to hit he didn't think they'd go for Joey Porter by talking about the value of a corner with ball skills -- but he didn't flat out say it that way. 

 

D.  They aren't high on Levis is he drops.  But they do like Hooker, not in the first. but if they pick up an extra pick in a trade down maybe late 2nd or 3rd if he falls that far.

 

E.  Got the vibe listening to Keim this time that it feels that they are somewhat open as to what they do in the first so in turn they might be unpredictable.   Previously, it felt like o line, o line, o line, as to what Keim was hearing so it feels like that tune has changed.  O line still but might not be in the first.  

 

F.  Referenced trading down.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim's new podcaast. i was sort of half listening to need to relisten tomorrow morning. so I might have misinterpreted a thing or two but if so I'll say so on the relisten.

 

B.  in the 2nd round hinted to watch for Laporta.  

 

F.  Referenced trading down.

👍

[Warhead36]

I think OL is still their priority but they're more open to other positions depending on how things play out. 

 

I don't think I've ever wanted to trade down more in a draft than this one.

[Dark Acre]

If there is a RB available who is potentially top-5 in the league with all-around, home-run potential (Bijan Robinson), you take him round 1, get him for 5 years + team can negotiate a LTD or ride him out on the tag.  Either way, you get a max-performance weapon at a position that is designed to take the football into the endzone.  You have to be sure, though, but if you are, that's a position where top speed matters.  That's a position where all the skill attributes come together in one guy.  I realize the run game has fallen off in recent years, but football is still football.  Any other RB in this draft at 16, no.

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Nolan Smith, edge, 6 '2, 236,  Really good player.  Also >>>> IMO the tackles we talk about.  I think he'd be great in that sort of Hassan Reddick role where he can come at you off the ball.

 

Smith, Van Ness, Murphy -- one of these guys, maybe 2 of them will likely be there at 16.  All three intriguing IMO for different reasons.  All three you are betting to some extent on potential but all of them are high ceiling players IMO because of their athleticism. 

 

9.22 RAS, sick speed for a pass rusher albiet at his size I would expect high end speed.  He's coming off a Pec injury so didn't play much last season, so just 2 sacks.  7 sacks the season before.

 

He plays bigger than his size and that surprised me. I expected basically a speed rusher who relies on his athleticism and would be Johnny One note on that front.  But he actually has some really strong hands and surprisingly he's good at shedding blocks both when he rushes the passer and against the run. 

 

He doesn't have great bend but its OK and he starts his stance when his hand is in the dirt low where his hips are already more sunk than the typical edge rusher.   He springs out of his stance quickly.  Takes good angles to the passer. 

 

He looks fluid in coverage.  They moved him from right to left, sometimes on the inside.  Although he had just a small sample this season, his pass rush win rate charter by PFF was sick, 25.5% which I believe is the highest number for this ege group.

 

Well rounded player -- good against the run, fluid in coverage, good pass rusher, plays off the ball and with his hand in the dirt, high character 

 

The knock I gather is size, production, injury.   And while he can shed tackles in college surprisingly well -- that might not be the same in the pros facing bigger and stronger O linemen. 

 

But i think having this dude come off the ball, Micah Parsons, Reddick style with this defense could be wicked.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He's my favorite player in this class and yes it's because of what Riddick did for the Eagles last year. Nolan Smith at 16 or back outta the first, because no one is close for me.

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Bijan isn’t making it to us.  I think he goes to 10.  Too clean of a prospect in a year that lacks blue chip talent.  Chicago makes sense.  He’s not falling past New England at 14

Bijan goes in the late 20's and maybe after Gibbs.

 

I can see the Eagles coming up from 30 for Gibbs.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's my favorite player in this class and yes it's because of what Riddick did for the Eagles last year. Nolan Smith at 16 or back outta the first, because no one is close for me.

 

 

2 things that I liked about him that I didn't expect as I said in my post.

 

A.  they used him back peddiling into coverage a lot more than other edge rushers I've watched so he already have some off the ball LB baked in to his play

 

B.  being undersized I'd think at times he'd be overpowered by bigger O lineman but he rarely was because his hands are so strong and active

 

I'd be somewhat surpised if he makes it to 16. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for center i am guessing Stromberg might still be there in the third.   I like Alex Forsyth so if they miss out on the upper tier group, I'd be cool with him, I guess he goes in the 5th round range.

 

I know we usually like trading down in drafts but IMO this one is a trade down draft on steroids IMO.

Your point on Forsyth is important. He is good and can play G and they could plan and making multiple trade backs. That might lead us with more 4th and 5th rounder. I so, he could be a target, If I recall he was one of the early 30 players they brought in

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He's my favorite player in this class and yes it's because of what Riddick did for the Eagles last year. Nolan Smith at 16 or back outta the first, because no one is close for me.

 

Had a feeling we'd be hearing from you when I saw SIPs Smith post 

Can I take it that you a big fan of Drew Sanders too?

Edited April 21, 2023 by DWinzit

[DWinzit]

16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Is it me or is this confusing. Calling teams below us about potential trade downs....but he doesn't want to give up a lot of picks.

Why would you be giving up a lot of picks in a trade down?

[Skinsinparadise]

I just rewatched a Drew Sanders game to refresh myself on him.   I need to do that on a bunch of players I watched months ago like him.

 

He has a really good feel for how to pass rush from the LB spot.  He IMO at his best when hovering close to the line of scrimage and rushing via delayed blitzes in particular. He can be a handful in general -- rip move, bull rushing, etc, and has good slippery hands with a motor.

 

But I am also not blown away.   I think the best way to use him is close to the box and as a weapon as a blitzer.  As a pure LB in coverage and against the run, I give them that he's a ball of energy and his recognition skills seem fine -- but overall, he's sort of hit and miss for me when he plays traditional LB. 

 

He has a wirey frame and isn't that hot at shedding tackles -- so he's more of an open field keep him clean type of LB but I noticed he's sort of a sloppy tackler and doesn't finish his tackles well.  After watching him I looked at his numbers and saw he has almost a 20% miss tackle rate -- which is the 2nd highest miss tackle number in this group and only a hair away from being the top miss tackle player in this group.  In coverage he looked ok but not as fluid as some other LBs I've watched.

 

I like Nolan Smith easily over Drew Sanders.  Sanders is about the same weight yet ran a 4.66.  He's a good athlete but doesn't bring that Reddick type of speed coming from the edge.  And I have more doubts that Sanders pass rushing chops translate to the NFL versus Nolan's style.

 

I think Sanders has a shot of being a good player.  But he's not a pound the table player for me.  But if they took him at 47, he's unlikely would be one of my top desires at that spot but I'd be cool with it, too.

 

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Is it me or is this confusing. Calling teams below us about potential trade downs....but he doesn't want to give up a lot of picks.

Why would you be giving up a lot of picks in a trade down?

 

I watched the interview, it was clunky tweet description of it.  They asked about trading up or trading down.  He said he prefers trading down typically and if they traded up theoritically they would not want to give up much.

[DWinzit]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I just rewatched a Drew Sanders game to refresh myself on him.   I need to do that on a bunch of players I watched months ago like him.

 

But I am also not blown away.   I think the best way to use him is close to the box and as a weapon as a blitzer.  As a pure LB in coverage and against the run, I give them that he's a ball of energy and his recognition skills seem fine -- but overall, he's sort of hit and miss for me when he plays traditional LB. 

 

He has a wirey frame and isn't that hot at shedding tackles -- so he's more of an open field keep him clean type of LB but I noticed he's sort of a sloppy tackler and doesn't finish his tackles well.  After watching him I looked at his numbers and saw he has almost a 20% miss tackle rate -- which is the 2nd highest miss tackle number in this group and only a hair away from being the top miss tackle player in this group.  In coverage he looked ok but not as fluid as some other LBs I've watched.

 

I watched the interview, it was clunky tweet description of it.  They asked about trading up or trading down.  He said he prefers trading down typically and if they traded up theoritically they would not want to give up much.

Your breakdown is spot on with Sanders. I don't love him here and found a comparison to Smith odd.

I also found a comparison of Sanders to Campbell odd...faster but similar game. That one I think was from Logan on Keim.

I don't see either comparison as to me those two guys are studs from different molds. 

 

Regarding a trade up....please no! Thanks for the explanation

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Your breakdown is spot on with Sanders. I don't love him here and found a comparison to Smith odd.

I also found a comparison of Sanders to Campbell odd...faster but similar game. That one I think was from Logan on Keim.

I don't see either comparison as to me those two guys are studs from different molds. 

 

Regarding a trade up....please no! Thanks for the explanation

 

They are different type of players.  I only compared them from the context of if you use them as an off the ball LB as sort of as a rover pass rusher-blitzer like Dallas uses Parsons, or how Reddick sometimes is used.   In that context, Nolan Smith IMO is the more dangerous pass rusher especially with our front.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

Your point on Forsyth is important. He is good and can play G and they could plan and making multiple trade backs. That might lead us with more 4th and 5th rounder. I so, he could be a target, If I recall he was one of the early 30 players they brought in

 

Forsyth is one of my fav mid round players.  High intangibles, too.

 

Sticking to center and talking mid rounds -- i don't like Scruggs as much as Forsyth but I think he could work, too.   He anchors well in pass protection, save the Ohio State game, he looked pretty steady to me.  He reminds me of a poor man's Luke Wypler stylistically.   He has the biggest wingspan in this group.  The 2nd biggest wingspan just a little behind Scruggs is Forsyth.   Scurggs to me is not great at any one thing but solid across the board -- pass game, run game. 

 

Both Forsyth and Scruggs have emotional backstories.   For Forsyth, i posted here his story in the past about him losing his dad in a mall shooting.  Sad story.  And it drives him.  For Scruggs, he had to overcome a bad car accident in 2019 and recover and play.  Both captains.  And come off high character.

 

https://onwardstate.com/2022/11/18/center-juice-scruggs-growing-as-leader-for-penn-state-football/

Franklin echoed that sentiment. Along with the typical coachspeak supporting his player, Penn State’s head coach offered glowing praise about Scruggs’ character.

“He has a huge smile on his face all the time,” Franklin said. “Comes walking in the facility every time I see him and he always hits me [with] ‘what’s up big dog?’ Every time he sees me, he daps me up.”

“I would let him babysit my kids. I would want him to work at Penn State. I would work for him,” Franklin continued.

 

https://www.si.com/college/pennstate/football/penn-state-football-juice-scruggs-discusses-nfl-draft-future

Scruggs earned All-Big Ten honors at center this season, during which he was a Penn State captain and the team's most durable lineman. He started all 12 regular-season games, led the Lions in snaps and played through pain at times.

Penn State coach James Franklin called Scruggs the team's ironman center, the player who "makes us go."

"Just talk about a guy that literally practices every day, bumps and bruises, plays in every, game bumps and bruises," Franklin said in November. "Not only is he playing at a high level, but he's durable, consistent, is the quarterback of the offensive line, is the quarterback of the protections, is the quarterback of the run game, getting us all on the same page."

Scruggs endured a long, determined road to restore that durability. He was a passenger in a 2019 car accident in which he was thrown from the vehicle, sustaining a fractured vertebra and a concussion.

Scruggs wore a back brace for eight months of rehabilitation and missed the 2019 season. He returned to the field 17 months after the accident, getting snaps in Penn State's November 2020 game against Maryland. He played without pain and afterward hugged his mother "for like 10 minutes."

Scruggs could have returned to Penn State in 2023 for a sixth season but has played a lot of football the past two seasons. Scruggs has started 25 consecutive games at guard and center. At this point, he's ready to pursue the next phase of his career.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

33 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched the interview, it was clunky tweet description of it.  They asked about trading up or trading down.  He said he prefers trading down typically and if they traded up theoritically they would not want to give up much.

I was think over that yesterday. When we took Haskins, we jumped back from 46 I think to the mid 20’s for Sweat. Cost was a future 2nd. So basically two 2nd rounders got us #26 I think it was. On balance, not too costly. 
 

That said, I wouldn’t promote a trade up in the second but they may feel our pick in that round is lower than ideal. And if they are seeing this as a one year trial pre new ownership, what’s to say they don’t do it.....

[DWinzit]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

B.  in the 2nd round hinted to watch for Musgrave and Laporta.  It sounded like he was going to elaborate some more but Bram annoyingly interrupted Keim's thought when he started talking about TEs.

 

C.  Seemed to hit he didn't think they'd go for Joey Porter by talking about the value of a corner with ball skills -- but he didn't flat out say it that way. 

At TE they also spoke of Kincaid in the midst of the interruptions lol! He does make a lot of sense for EB if they want weapons. I have reservations with Musgrave and of course I think Laporta is the best TE if they want an immediate weapon. He is most NFL ready in my eyes due to his route trees he ran at Iowa

 

This was the first I'd heard of Porter not really being in their cards and it is due to the depth and strength of the CB's

[Est.1974]

Heck. Trade back from #16 and also up from #47. 
 

Maybe the ideal scenario is to finish up with a couple of late first round selections.

Just now, DWinzit said:

At TE they also spoke of Kincaid in the midst of the interruptions lol! He does make a lot of sense for EB if they want weapons. I have reservations with Musgrave and of course I think Laporta is the best TE if they want an immediate weapon. He is most NFL ready in my eyes due to his route trees he ran at Iowa

 

This was the first I'd heard of Porter not really being in their cards and it is due to the depth and strength of the CB's

Kincaid looks outstanding to me.

[method man]

6 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

At TE they also spoke of Kincaid in the midst of the interruptions lol! He does make a lot of sense for EB if they want weapons. I have reservations with Musgrave and of course I think Laporta is the best TE if they want an immediate weapon. He is most NFL ready in my eyes due to his route trees he ran at Iowa

 

This was the first I'd heard of Porter not really being in their cards and it is due to the depth and strength of the CB's

 

With the focus on LaPorta and Musgrave, it is clear they like the athletic type. I wonder what would happen if Mayer fell to their pick in rd 2. If you take Mayer, you would feel super comfortable letting Thomas go given Mayer's floor but you don't have the upside in Mayer you would have in Musgrave and LaPorta

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I was think over that yesterday. When we took Haskins, we jumped back from 46 I think to the mid 20’s for Sweat. Cost was a future 2nd. So basically two 2nd rounders got us #26 I think it was. On balance, not too costly. 
 

That said, I wouldn’t promote a trade up in the second but they may feel our pick in that round is lower than ideal. And if they are seeing this as a one year trial pre new ownership, what’s to say they don’t do it.....

 

I got no idea.  But I'll say even though Keim hasn't been his usual self as to speciifying players among their draft interests, he has made some points with conviction, among them is he believes they want to accumulate more picks.  Not so much highlighted in his last podcast but he's hit the point many times. 

 

Mayhew basically heavily implied the same in his press conference.  He was asked a pointed question about trading up and even in his answer about that if I recall correctly he referenced trading down but to answer the question directly he said if they did trade up he wouldn't want to give up much.    

 

So I'd be surprised if they traded up.  But I guess it could be a marriage of doing both -- trade down, add picks and give some away back by trading up -- I'd be surprised but its possible.

 

Thinking some more about Keim.  If I had to pick two things that shifted from earlier in this process to now, its..

 

A.  I don't hear anymore O line or bust early (implied first round).  It still sounds possible but not as slam dunk

 

B.  Tight ends.  He's gone from saying they are pretty happy with their TE room to suggesting its on the table even early in the draft albiet unlikely in round 1.

 

I am glad about the tight ends.  I sort of bemoaned the idea early on in the process that they don't seem hot for a TE --because personally I was hot for one.  But it sounds like Bieinemy might have changed their thinking on it.

 

It was interesting that he mentioned Laporta, Musgrave.  And actually referenced Kincaid in another point.  Those would be the ones who can stretch the field and bring some speed.   

 

IMO (not Keim) if they don't hit TE early -- the ones who could be on the table are Mallory, Strange, Kuntz.  They IMO are sort of the poor man's versions of those players.  Kuntz for Musgrave.  Mallory for Laporta-Kincaid.  Strange doesn't fit that mode but the reason why i throw him in that mix is he gets open really quickly in the flat which reminds me on that front of Kincaid. 

11 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

At TE they also spoke of Kincaid in the midst of the interruptions lol! He does make a lot of sense for EB if they want weapons. I have reservations with Musgrave and of course I think Laporta is the best TE if they want an immediate weapon. He is most NFL ready in my eyes due to his route trees he ran at Iowa

 

This was the first I'd heard of Porter not really being in their cards and it is due to the depth and strength of the CB's

 

Yeah Kincaid was in reference of would they take a TE in the first, Keim didn't think so but didn't rule out Kincaid, if I recall Bram threw the name at him. 

 

Porter if I recall was in reference specifically to ball skills. 

Edited April 21, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I got no idea.  But I'll say even though Keim hasn't been his usual self as to speciifying players among their draft interests, he has made some points with conviction, among them is he believes they want to accumulate more picks.  Mayhew basically heavily implied the same in his press conference.  He was asked a pointed question about trading up and even in his answer about that if I recall correctly he referenced trading down but to answer the question directly he said if they did trade up he wouldn't want to give up much.    

 

So I'd be surprised if they traded up.  But I guess it could be a marriage of doing both -- trade down, add picks and give some away back by trading up -- I'd be surprised but its possible.

 

Thinking some more about Keim.  If I had to pick two thing that shifted from earlier in this process to now, its..

 

A.  I don't hear anymore O line or bust early (implied first round).  It still sounds possible but not as slam dunk

 

B.  Tight ends.  He's gone from saying they are pretty happy with their TE room to suggesting its on the table even early in the draft albiet unlikely in round 1.

 

I am glad about the tight ends.  I sort of bemoaned the idea early on in the process that they don't seem hot for a TE --because personally I was hot for one.  But it sounds like Bieinemy might have changed their thinking on it.

 

It was interesting that he mentioned Laporta, Musgrave.  And actually referenced Kincaid in another point.  Those would be the ones who can stretch the field and bring some speed.   

 

IMO (not Keim) if they don't hit TE early -- the ones who could be on the table are Mallory, Strange, Kuntz.  They IMO are sort of the poor man's versions of those players.  Kuntz for Musgrave.  Mallory for Laporta-Kincaid.  Strange doesn't fit that mode but the reason why i throw him in that mix is he gets open really quickly in the flat which remind me on that front of Kincaid. 

 

I'd be surprised if they went for TE if it is not for someone in round 2. Mallory, Strange, Kuntz etc are similar, if not weaker, prospects than most of the young guys they already have. As a Y, I already take Rodgers over Mallory and Turner is similar in level of prospect

[DWinzit]

6 minutes ago, method man said:

 

With the focus on LaPorta and Musgrave, it is clear they like the athletic type. I wonder what would happen if Mayer fell to their pick in rd 2. If you take Mayer, you would feel super comfortable letting Thomas go given Mayer's floor but you don't have the upside in Mayer you would have in Musgrave and LaPorta

If they draft Laporta, Musgrave or any other TE in the first 3 rounds, Thomas is a goner. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

Kincaid looks outstanding to me.

 

I wish we had his measurables -- but I get he's just recovered from his back injury.

 

But his hands are special.   He catches everything and doesn't drop the ball.  Makes contested catches too.  You can line him up at X receiver at times like the Chiefs do with Kelce and create mismatches like they do.

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, method man said:

 

I'd be surprised if they went for TE if it is not for someone in round 2. Mallory, Strange, Kuntz etc are similar, if not weaker, prospects than most of the young guys they already have. As a Y, I already take Rodgers over Mallory and Turner is similar in level of prospect

They like Bates blocking, maybe they look at a Mallory or Kuntz as having way more potential than a Rodgers or Turner. If they go that route Thomas may stick for the year also