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2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread


zCommander

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55 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Wonder if there’s any late change on draft strategy since they have a new boss soon?

 

The gms will try to hit on this draft so that they will get consideration for the gm

job?

 

Will Ron draft someone to be an immediate impact that he wasn’t thinking of before?

I’ve pretty much said the same. 
 

Trade up for a QB. Trade out of the first . Might be something happening. 
 

or we just take a Guard ?

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20 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I’ve pretty much said the same. 
 

Trade up for a QB. Trade out of the first . Might be something happening. 
 

or we just take a Guard ?

New owner can’t do anything until they take over but the people there might change things in a bid to save their jobs.

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I'm on the Hendon Train! Third round but doubt he falls that far.  If we took him in the 2nd, I'd be ok with that too. If we did draft Hendon in the 2nd I'd be drafting Riley Moss CB from Iowa in the 3rd. :) 

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Exactly, like and not love.  they don't love him, do they wouldn't take at 16, but like enough that hey he's fallen so far in the draft that that this is a good spot to take him.

 

I just can't understand this way of thinking about a QB.  If you don't love the guy, then you should be out on him.  Shouldn't draft him at all, except for maybe in back up QB country on day 3.  The position should never really be drafted with ambivalence, and a QB can never be successfully developed by an ambivalent organization.  When these day 2/3 guys get drafted and end up becoming the franchise, it's always in cases where the team didn't really know what they had when they picked him.  Then he got in the building and they realized very quickly there is something special about him.

 

Hooker in not that kind of prospect.  He's going to be drafted in the top 50 by someone specifically to be a starter.  Keim saying that they'll pick him if he's their in the third is a meaningless statement because everyone understands that's not going to happen.  That's like saying we like Aaron Rodgers but only if we can get him with a fifth round pick and a big pay cut.  They need to either be in or out on Hooker, and by that I mean they need to know whether or not they want to draft him to be the long term starter, and whether they are willing to spend the resources that it'll take to actually get him.

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23 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I just can't understand this way of thinking about a QB.  If you don't love the guy, then you should be out on him.  Shouldn't draft him at all, except for maybe in back up QB country on day 3.  The position should never really be drafted with ambivalence, and a QB can never be successfully developed by an ambivalent organization.  When these day 2/3 guys get drafted and end up becoming the franchise, it's always in cases where the team didn't really know what they had when they picked him.  Then he got in the building and they realized very quickly there is something special about him.

 

Hooker in not that kind of prospect.  He's going to be drafted in the top 50 by someone specifically to be a starter.  Keim saying that they'll pick him if he's their in the third is a meaningless statement because everyone understands that's not going to happen.  That's like saying we like Aaron Rodgers but only if we can get him with a fifth round pick and a big pay cut.  They need to either be in or out on Hooker, and by that I mean they need to know whether or not they want to draft him to be the long term starter, and whether they are willing to spend the resources that it'll take to actually get him.


I completely disagree with this line of thought.

 

You like a guy and think he has potential. But you have a rookie QB you feel strongly about and he has a NFL year under his belt.

 

Hooker also has a freakin’ ACL injury. Even if ready for the season, they linger a bit to get back to speed.

 

So we’re going to draft a guy in the first that could potentially not see the field even if they wanted him to… for what?

 

I don’t think this is a wild or difficult to understand idea.

 

If CJ Stroud or Bryce Young dropped, we’d take them at 16. They won’t, but THAT is the no brainer tier.

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30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I just can't understand this way of thinking about a QB.  If you don't love the guy, then you should be out on him.  Shouldn't draft him at all, except for maybe in back up QB country on day 3. 

 

OK you don't seem to think there is a middle ground.   Apparently, they are mostly likely to draft him if they did on day 2 and more likely the later part of day 2 is the impression I have listening to Keim.   You said day 3, so that's a very small difference.  Their pick in the third round is basically a few picks away from being a day 3 pick. 

 

Listening to scouts talk about the spot, its so hard to have total conviction about it unless you have these through the roof talents like a Lawrence, C. Williams, Luck, etc.

 

Arians in his longish QB book said he really doesn't know with certaintly about the QBs they draft until he has them in the building then he can tell.  So you can turn a like into a love. 

 

If it were easy of course to fall in love and get it right on QBs, the league would be a totally different animal.  but its really hard to get that spot right.  And intangibles are big everything being equal and its tough to always dicipher intangibles until you have the player in your building.

 

Shanny said a similiar thing to what Arians did.  He said with Kirk he "liked" his college tape but didn't realize he had it until he had the dude in the building for a week.  He explained its not that he did a poor job of assessing Kirk's tape to realize it.  But its really hard to see the players make up and how quick they can process until you have him in the building for practice over time. 

 

For example. I don't think Kirk's talent lended to "love" for Shanny but "like" and maybe you fall in love with him when he's in the building -- work ethic, ability to process things quickly, etc. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Entering the draft, there are four teams that desperately need a starting center; the New York Jets, New York Giants, Seattle Seahawks, and Arizona Cardinals. The Houston Texans also need a blocker on the pivot, while the Pittsburgh Steelers and Indianapolis Colts are also in the market for a center.

 

Right now, there are three centers at the top of the position board, and all are from the Big Ten; John Michael Schmitz of Minnesota, Joe Tippmann of Wisconsin, and Luke Wypler from Ohio State. There are also several teams who project TCU guard Steve Avila to the center spot and have a high grade on the senior. Let’s take a look

 

Tippmann could be the Seahawks’ selection at 20, the same pick the Lions used to select Ragnow in 2018. Seattle will also look to trade down from 20 with the hopes Tippmann or Schmitz are available later. I’m told discussions are already taking place to move that selection.

 

..The Jets are another team very high on Tippmann, whose last official 30 visit is with the franchise in Florham Park. I mentioned in my recent mock draft that I expect Joe Douglas to try and move down from the 13th pick if the left tackles (Paris Johnson Jr. or Broderick Jones) are off the board when the team is called to the clock.

 

Trading down would be a multi-purpose move as the Jets would be in a position to select a center. It would also give them more draft capital, which they need to trade for Aaron Rodgers or replace what they gave away for the signal-caller.

Pittsburgh, Houston, and Arizona also like Tippmann. Additionally, if he falls out of Round 1, I feel confident in saying Tippmann won’t make it past the 35th pick, presently owned by the Indianapolis Colts.

 

John Michael Schmitz, Minnesota

Several teams have Schmitz rated as the top center, an opinion I concur with. The main difference between Schmitz and Tippmann is that the Minnesota senior is expected to be able to step into a starting line-up on Day 1, whereas it may take Tippmann a little longer to work in with the first team.

Like Tippmann, the Seahawks sent Hutchinson to work out Schmitz. If they are able to trade down from pick 20, Schmitz could be their guy. If he happens to be available to Seattle at pick 37, it would be manna from heaven for the franchise.

 

I continue to hear the Giants are locked onto Schmitz. Offensive line coach Bobby Johnson privately worked him out, and the team brought the center in for an official 30 visit. I’ve had the Giants selecting Schmitz with the 25th pick in the only two mock drafts I’ve done this year.

 

The Jets also like Schmitz but, as with Tippmann, they’d have to trade down and likely won’t select him at No. 13 overall. With the Steelers and Colts selecting at the top of Round 2, no one believes it’s possible Schmitz makes it to the Jets in the middle of the round.

 

The Texans and Cardinals are both very high on Wypler. The feeling at the Ohio State Pro Day was the Buckeye sophomore will end up with Arizona.

 

Would either the Texans or Cardinals take Wypler at the top of Round 2 or risk waiting until the third round? I think much depends on how quickly Tippmann and Schmitz come off the board. The sooner those two are drafted, the quicker other teams that need a center are likely to select Wypler out of desperation.

 

...One more interesting tidbit on Wypler to the Jets is that I’m told Rodgers is warming to the idea of taking snaps from the Ohio State product. Josh Myers, the Packers center and a former Buckeye, has been singing the praises of Wypler to Rodgers, who just wants a smart blocker snapping him the ball.

 

The Jets also seem to like Arkansas center Ricky Stromberg. They sent their offensive line coach to the Arkansas Razorbacks Pro Day and had Stromberg in for an official 30 visit. The problem for New York is they don’t have a third-round choice, and I’m not sure Stromberg lasts until their first pick on Day 3, the 112th selection.

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37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

OK you don't seem to think there is a middle ground.   Apparently, they are mostly likely to draft him if they did on day 2 and more likely the later part of day 2 is the impression I have listening to Keim.   You said day 3, so that's a very small difference.  Their pick in the third round is basically a few picks away from being a day 3 pick. 

 

I don't think there is a middle ground.  Not with a QB like Hooker who is probably going to be drafted in the top fifty, and drafted to be a starter.  Of course you can't really know what you're getting for sure from any draft pick, QB included.  But when you pick a QB early in the draft, it's a pick that better not be made in ambivalence.  And in reality, it almost never is.  Those picks are made by teams that intend for that prospect to become their long term starter.

 

In every situation where a mid round QB has been drafted as a flier and then came in and worked out big time, Dak, Kirk, Russell Wilson, etc. the teams that took the flier on them already had a starting QB plan in place at the time of the pick.  They just struck gold and found something better.  This is not the situation that is in play with Hooker.  He's not going to be some mid round lottery ticket.

 

So maybe they aren't really in on Hooker at all, and their meetings with him are just due diligence.  But Eric Bienemy ain't traveling around doing this kind of due diligence on every QB prospect.  It seems like a lot of smoke to that fire, and it shouldn't surprise any of us if they draft him.

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8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I don't think there is a middle ground.  Not with a QB like Hooker who is probably going to be drafted in the top fifty, and drafted to be a starter.  Of course you can't really know what you're getting for sure from any draft pick, QB included.  But when you pick a QB early in the draft, it's a pick that better not be made in ambivalence.  And in reality, it almost never is.  Those picks are made by teams that intend for that prospect to become their long term starter.

 

In every situation where a mid round QB has been drafted as a flier and then came in and worked out big time, Dak, Kirk, Russell Wilson, etc. the teams that took the flier on them already had a starting QB plan in place at the time of the pick.  They just struck gold and found something better.  This is not the situation that is in play with Hooker.  He's not going to be some mid round lottery ticket.

 

So maybe they aren't really in on Hooker at all, and their meetings with him are just due diligence.  But Eric Bienemy ain't traveling around doing this kind of due diligence on every QB prospect.  It seems like a lot of smoke to that fire, and it shouldn't surprise any of us if they draft him.

I think Hooker is slotted to go to Seattle with their relatively high first round pick.

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30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

So maybe they aren't really in on Hooker at all, and their meetings with him are just due diligence.  But Eric Bienemy ain't traveling around doing this kind of due diligence on every QB prospect.  It seems like a lot of smoke to that fire, and it shouldn't surprise any of us if they draft him.

 

With the disclaimer of if Keim changes his tune of what he hears then so will I. but I am not betting on them purposely fooling Keim, if they did it would be the first time.  But its also counter-intuitive to me for them take Hooker at 16.  Rivera has to win this year to save his job in all likelihood.  Hooker might not even be able to play this season. 

 

I think the discussion is borderline a waste of time.

 

I think there is an off chance if Hooker falls to 47, they'd take him, better chance they'd take him if he fell to their 3rd round pick which is basically a 4th rounder.

 

When Bieinemy was in Tennessee, Mayhew was at Florida, they were spreading their people around.  And I'd bet part of the reason for Bieinemy is to watch Darnell Wright.  They've been all over Wright, D. Jones, and Torrence.

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9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

3 - Ultimately I trust Bienemy's ability to develop a QB prospect into an outstanding NFL player.  If Bienemy wants the dude, let's get Hooker for him.

As I stated this morning, I like many of the points you brought out about Hooker. Opened my eyes to the seriousness of him being selected by Washington. I sure hope it isn't something that occurs until the 2nd round though with the status of the GM, coaches and ownership.

 

What I really don't get is the above statement. Why do you trust EB's ability to develop a QB. Has he himself done that? And I ask this specific to you as you have often (rightfully) questioned the idea of this team being able to develop a new QB over the past few years.  

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On 4/13/2023 at 12:07 PM, Warhead36 said:

At this point I'd be okay with any of Harrison, Jones, or Wright. I like Harrison the most because he has the most experience at LT and Oklahoma is just a factory when it comes to producing pro caliber OTs.

If the team is a big passing team, I like Harrison first as my LT. Love his foot work and potential mixed with his experience. I however do not love him in the run game. He is passive, doesn't finish plays or have that mean streak. Maybe he matures into that and a few more pounds that he could use as base.. I do like Harrisons upside a lot!

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1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

If the team is a big passing team, I like Harrison first as my LT. Love his foot work and potential mixed with his experience. I however do not love him in the run game. He is passive, doesn't finish plays or have that mean streak. Maybe he matures into that and a few more pounds that he could use as base.. I do like Harrisons upside a lot!

I'd rather have a guy who is great as pass protection. That is much more important in today's NFL. Run blocking is easier to improve anyway. 

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1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

As I stated this morning, I like many of the points you brought out about Hooker. Opened my eyes to the seriousness of him being selected by Washington. I sure hope it isn't something that occurs until the 2nd round though with the status of the GM, coaches and ownership.

 

What I really don't get is the above statement. Why do you trust EB's ability to develop a QB. Has he himself done that? And I ask this specific to you as you have often (rightfully) questioned the idea of this team being able to develop a new QB over the past few years.  

 

Mahomes.  Could be wrong, but I think he's a super strong coach who was a big part of the staff that developed Patrick Mahomes into a great player.

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“Gimme 2 and a half minutes”

 

To me this draft, at least #16, has to be BPA. I understand we have needs. And we need to fill them. Especially along the OL.

 

We have a defense that was top ten in almost every defensive statistical category. On the flip side our offense, well, quite offensive. We have decisions to make with several of our own at the end of the year. Sweat-Young, Curl, Gibby to name a few. We have talent needs at OL, Corner, LB to name a few.

 

But to me grabbing a dynamic game changing talent on the offensive side of the ball should be priority number one. Someone who will aide in the development of our young, dare I say “franchise qb” in an offense system brought over by one of the bright offensive minds in the NFL. Get EB a nice shiny toy that will give him a dynamic option along with the rather untapped dynamic talent we have rostered already.
 

That being said that does not exclude an OL , a Corner or a QB. Really hoping #16 comes through the eyes of EB and should “value” with this pick should be defined by scheme and how he fits on this team rather than a matter of where the player is drafted in this draft.

 

My hopes for 16 in order:

1. BIJAN ROBINSON
2. DALTON KINCAID
*Would love to land one of these two and finish the rest of the draft heavy with OL, CO, TE-RB, LB-Edge*
3. PETER SKORONSKI
4. PARIS JOHNSON JR.
5. CHRISTIAN GONZALEZ
6. BRODERICK JONES
7. DEONTE BANKS
8. DEVON WITHERSPOON
9. DARNELL WRIGHT
10. ZAY FLOWERS


Would also be open to a trade down if 1-6 are off the board. Really hope it falls this way for us.


-Hail

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Notable prospect contacts per Walter Football #redskins #takecommand
 

WAS.gif Washington Redskins
  • Israel Abanikanda, Running Back, Pittsburgh (COM)
  • MJ Anderson, Defensive Tackle, Iowa State (PRO)
  • Steve Avila, Center, TCU (PRI)
  • Brian Branch, Safety, Alabama (PRI)
  • Julius Brents^, Cornerback, Kansas State (COM, SR)
  • Ronnie Brown, Running Back, Shepherd (PRI)
  • Kei'Trel Clark, Cornerback, Louisville (VIR)
  • Payne Durham, Tight End, Purdue (COM)
  • Emmanuel Forbes, Cornerback, Mississippi State (PRI)
  • Bryce Ford-Wheaton, Wide Receiver, West Virginia (COM)
  • Joel Honigford, Tight End, Michigan (WOR)
  • Hendon Hooker, Quarterback, Tennessee (PRI)
  • Anthony Johnson, Cornerback, Virginia (LOC)
  • Dawand Jones, Offensive Tackle, Ohio State (PRI)
  • Steven Jones, Cornerback, Appalachian State (PRO)
  • Cameron Latu, Tight End, Alabama (SR)
  • Atonio Mafi, Offensive Guard, UCLA (PRI)
  • Will Mallory, Tight End, Miami (SR)
  • Jartavius 'Quan' Martin, Cornerback, Illinois (PRI)
  • Ventrell Miller, Inside Linebacker, Florida (PRO)
  • Wanya Morris, Offensive Tackle, Oklahoma (COM)
  • Luke Musgrave, Tight End, Oregon State (SR)
  • Demarvion Overshown, Inside Linebacker, Texas (PRI)
  • Joey Porter Jr.^, Cornerback, Penn State (COM, PRI)
  • Joshua Pryor, Defensive End, Bowie State (LOC)
  • Tyler Richardson, Cornerback, Tiffin (PRO)
  • John Michael Schmitz, Center, Minnesota (COM)
  • Christopher Smith^, Safety, Georgia (COM, SR)
  • Terell Smith, Cornerback, Minnesota (PRI)
  • Kyle Soelle, Linebacker, Arizona State (PRI)
  • Tyler Steen, Offensive Tackle, Alabama (PRI)
  • Ricky Stromberg, Center, Arkansas (PRI)
  • O'Cyrus Torrence^, Offensive Guard, Florida (COM, PRI)
  • D.J. Turner, Cornerback, Michigan (PRI)
  • Carrington Valentine, Cornerback, Kentucky (VIR)
  • Garrett Williams, Cornerback, Syracuse (PRI)
  • Brayden Willis, Tight End, Oklahoma (SR)
  • Devon Witherspoon, Cornerback, Illinois (PRI)
  • Darnell Wright, Offensive Tackle, Tennessee (PRI)
  • Rejzohn Wright, Cornerback, Oregon State (SR)
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8 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd rather have a guy who is great as pass protection. That is much more important in today's NFL. Run blocking is easier to improve anyway. 

Totally respect this. I see him as having a higher LT floor than all the others.

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9 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Mahomes.  Could be wrong, but I think he's a super strong coach who was a big part of the staff that developed Patrick Mahomes into a great player.

I was hoping you had more for me that I wasn't aware of besides Mahomes. I have a hard time just giving EB the credit for Mahomes when standing in the QB whisperer AR's shadows the whole time. AR is the one that identified the kid as a star and jumped the draft for him. Then purposely had him sit a year to learn. Praying you are correct about him!

 

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Dewayne McBride.  RB, 5 '10, 209, RB, UAB.    @KDawg's guy.  Kiper, too.   Some in the draft media aren't that high on him, seen him in the 5th-6th round range.  

 

I watched him this morning.  My kind of running back, love guys who break tackles and are physical.  So I am more with @KDawg and Kiper than those from the draft media who sees him as a midrounder or less type. 

 

4.6 yards after contact, 7.3 YPA both are the best in this draft class.  He had 25 -- 15 plus yard runs.

 

Physical runner, breaks tackles, good vision -- follows his blocks well. Good burst.  Good contact balance.  Stop and go. Makes sharp cuts when he runs.  Good patience -- varies his speed.

 

Too bad he didn't do the combine, he looks fast but not 100% sure.   He has long legs and seems to have good long speed for breakaway runs.  

 

The only pauses for me include he runs a bit upright.  He was not used at all as a passing weapon.  The big numbers were mostly against "meh" college competition.  I watched his game against LSU and he was decent but not as good.   I am too lazy to look u his fumble numbers but saw a bad fumble in one of the games I watched.

 

He does everything well.  I've seen runners in this class more powerful, more elusive, better breakaway speed, better stop and go, etc -- but this guy is good with all of it, he has it all in his arenal, even if he doesn't major in any of it.   Well rounded IMO, high floor RB.

 

 

 

 

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Jaren Hall, 6 foot, 207, QB from BYU.  25 years ofd.  31 TDs. 6 picks.  Has 2 good seasons back to back. I watched 2 games.  IMO high floor backup. 

 

Came off to me a slightly more dynamic and stronger armed version of Colt McCoy.  I liked him more than I expected. LIke Colt, I think because of his style of play and size, he will be injury prone in the NFL so better suited as a backup for that reason among others.  He had injuries in college

 

He can run, 4.6 speed, make plays off platform.   Runs plays under center and shot gun.  Good with play fakes -- play action.   Throws with nice touch -- really catchable ball, hits receivers in stride.    Escapes pressure well in the pocket.

 

IMO he majors in dink and dunk, first level throws, I think well suited for a WCO because he has a quick release and makes off platform throws.  He wasn't hot in the Senior Bowl but he was injures.  I read he's killing it in interviews with teams -- smart guy. 

 

 

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Jaren Hall, 6 foot, 207, QB from BYU.  25 years ofd.  31 TDs. 6 picks.  Has 2 good seasons back to back. I watched 2 games.  IMO high floor backup. 

 

Came off to me a slightly more dynamic and stronger armed version of Colt McCoy.  I liked him more than I expected. LIke Colt, I think because of his style of play and size, he will be injury prone in the NFL so better suited as a backup for that reason among others.  He had injuries in college

 

He can run, 4.6 speed, make plays off platform.   Runs plays under center and shot gun.  Good with play fakes -- play action.   Throws with nice touch -- really catchable ball, hits receivers in stride.    Escapes pressure well in the pocket.

 

IMO he majors in dink and dunk, first level throws, I think well suited for a WCO because he has a quick release and makes off platform throws.  He wasn't hot in the Senior Bowl but he was injures.  I read he's killing it in interviews with teams -- smart guy. 

 

 

 

 

 


He’s a forgotten man. A few months ago, he was QB6ish on many boards

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Jammie Robinson, safety, FSU, 5 '11, 191. Good - high floor player but not the highest ceiling.  Poor man's Brian Branch.  Similar size to Branch.  Played a ton in the slot like Branch.  Good tackler like Branch.   Played in the box, deep, slot -- so brings good potential swss arm knife qualities.

 

Has one of the better missed tackle rates in this class. 88 tackes.  Good PFF scores against both the pass and the run. 

 

Sticky in coverage, sound tackler, good play recognition.  When playing in 2 safety coverage sets, he was usually the deeper playing safety in the games I watched.

 

His speed is just average.  Saw him get run over on a play.  I read an interview that he called himself a ball hawk, yet he just had one pick last season.

 

Solid pick in the 4th round range.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

I was hoping you had more for me that I wasn't aware of besides Mahomes. I have a hard time just giving EB the credit for Mahomes when standing in the QB whisperer AR's shadows the whole time. AR is the one that identified the kid as a star and jumped the draft for him. Then purposely had him sit a year to learn. Praying you are correct about him!

 

I think folks tend to underestimate how collaborative the coaching process is, especially at the highest level of the sport.  And the Chiefs have truly been at the highest level of the sport for Bienemy's tenure as their OC.  He was the second highest ranking coach on the staff that led one of the most innovative and excellent offenses of this era, and I think, realistically, there is no way he wasn't a big part of developing Mahomes.

 

We've had a lot of talented offensive coaches pass through during the last decade, but they're usually young guys just starting their NFL coaching journeys.  Bienemy is something different.  A head coaching talent in full maturity, who took a job here he is overqualified for, for reasons we don't really know yet.  A dude coming here from the league's best and most detail oriented culture, who has worked hands on for years with several of the league's best players at their positions.  This is something different than what we had under Shanny and Jay, and utterly different than what we had on the staff for Rivera's early years.  I actually trust Bienemy with a QB. It's time for us to get one, and he should be able to pick one because I have a deep seated suspicion that he's going to be our next head coach.

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