Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[JCB]

You know some of them there flying machines can carry bombs and missiles, right?

[tshile]

1 hour ago, Pwyl said:

I took issue with the sentence I put in quotes.  You seem to be taking issue with things no one has said.

I’ll try again. 
 

you took issue with the idea of replenishing stockpiles for a war you don’t think is possible, don’t think matters, etc

 

i took issue with people thinking replenishing stockpiles is somehow dependent on what they personally think may or may not ever happen 

[TheGreatBuzz]

42 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Do you think Taiwan can maintain air superiority for a long period of time or no?

 

I think there are way too many unknown variables to answer that question.  How do they invade?  Are forces moved from elsewhere?  What is the US response?  Amd the global response?  All would play into that.

[Pwyl]

30 minutes ago, tshile said:

I’ll try again. 
 

you took issue with the idea of replenishing stockpiles for a war you don’t think is possible, don’t think matters, etc

 

i took issue with people thinking replenishing stockpiles is somehow dependent on what they personally think may or may not ever happen 

 

You're still doing it lol.  It  shouldn't be that hard to read the sentence I put in quotes and understand my objection.  It's very narrow and specific which is why I put it in quotes.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

52 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I think there are way too many unknown variables to answer that question.  How do they invade?  Are forces moved from elsewhere?  What is the US response?  Amd the global response?  All would play into that.

The us and globally respond would be us and global deterrent. Not the Taiwan Air Force. I understand why you don’t want to answer the question though. I didn’t ask you to tell us the future, I asked you to say what think would happen.

Edited March 13, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[Pwyl]

There's no such thing as a ground invasion of Taiwan. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Just now, Pwyl said:

There's no such thing as a ground invasion of Taiwan. 

Of course there is. You can’t control a country unless you control the country. Chinese can try to form a blockade but until there are troops on the ground they don’t control Taiwan.

[Pwyl]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Of course there is. You can’t control a country unless you control the country. Chinese can try to form a blockade but until there are troops on the ground they don’t control Taiwan.

At this point I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or you just don't understand the words you're typing.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

11 minutes ago, Pwyl said:

At this point I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or you just don't understand the words you're typing.  

You’re not saying anything of substance. At this point I think you are just trolling for the sake of trolling. How many times did you back at forth with tshile debating the meaning of it?

[Pwyl]

2 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

You’re not saying anything of substance. At this point I think you are just trolling for the sake of trolling. How many times did you back at forth with tshile debating the meaning of it?

Still can't tell.   Here's a hint:. What type of land mass is Taiwan.  

[tshile]

Wait

is your big sticking point here that it’s an island?

 

😂 

I honestly didn’t know it was possible to be more pedantic than Larry 😆 

[TradeTheBeal!]

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

36 minutes ago, Pwyl said:

Still can't tell.   Here's a hint:. What type of land mass is Taiwan.  

 

🧐

 

tell me what kind of ship that is in the back ground? 

[Pwyl]

4 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

🧐

 

tell me what kind of ship that is in the back ground? 

You use ships in a ground invasion?  Are you even trying? 

 

38 minutes ago, tshile said:

Wait

is your big sticking point here that it’s an island?

 

😂

I honestly didn’t know it was possible to be more pedantic than Larry 😆 

I mean... If the subject is what is involved in deterring china from invading Taiwan, I think being accurate about describing how that would be accomplished would be important to useful conversation.  

[CousinsCowgirl84]

Just now, Pwyl said:

You use ships in a ground invasion?  Are you even trying? 

 

Once you land on the beach you’ve invaded the ground of Taiwan. The difference being at that point we won’t be able to get any supplies into Taiwan. They have to have everything they need to resist multiple waves of ground forces landing on their beaches. With Ukraine we can continuously resupply them. With Taiwan they have to outlast chinas onslaught till we can destroy chinas ability to deliver troops amphibiously, which won’t be easy.

 

so, that is why deterrence is important. The more likely it looks to China that its land invasion of Taiwan will not get through fast enough the less likely they are to attempt it. The weapons Ukraine is using overlap to a great deal with the weapons Taiwan needs to increase its stock piles of. And let’s not be naive to the fact that there only so many factories that are making military grade weapons of any type.

[TheGreatBuzz]

2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The us and globally respond would be us and global deterrent. Not the Taiwan Air Force. I understand why you don’t want to answer the question though. I didn’t ask you to tell us the future, I asked you to say what think would happen.

 

I don't think China will invade Taiwan.  They like using it as a threat too much.  But I also know I could be wrong and would not bet the farm on it.

 

But your comment that started this was *paraphrase* that Taiwan's air force wouldn't help it repel a ground invasion.  That is wrong.  It would absolutely help.  It may not be the deciding factor.  And Taiwan may not repel it in the end.  But saying an air force wouldn't help is stupid.

 

But I think if China did want to change the status quo (which I don't think they really do) I think they would do it without an invasion.  There would be targeted strikes. Maybe some special forces assassinating top figures, etc.  Followed by a blocade if needed.  What happened after that depends on too much other info to predict.  But who is potus at the time will be a big part of it.

 

1 hour ago, Pwyl said:

You use ships in a ground invasion?  Are you even trying? 

 

Is this sarcasm or did you just win Dumbest Thing Said On ES In 2023 award and it is only March?

[CousinsCowgirl84]

54 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

But your comment that started this was *paraphrase* that Taiwan's air force wouldn't help it repel a ground invasion.  That is wrong.  It would absolutely help.  It may not be the deciding factor.  And Taiwan may not repel it in the end.  But saying an air force wouldn't help is stupid.

 

you can’t cherry pick one phrase out of a paragraph.  I never said that the air force wouldn’t have any impact. I said it wouldn’t repel it and that no one believes Taiwan will hold air superiority for long. Once they loose that their airforce is neutered. That is why strategic deterrence through advanced deployment of conventional weapons in Taiwan is important.

54 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

As far as whether or not China attacks Taiwan, of course we can’t know. But I think you should agree the more DEFENSIVE weapons taiwan has the less likely it is than China makes a bad decision. In addition to the other levers we have to increase chinas costs for choosing to invade.

 

On the other hand, China made it clear that they consider Taiwan sovereign territory, continue building their navy, being aggressive in the South China Sea, more recently they have said that taking Taiwan by force is a legitimate option, that if the United States doesn’t change its course there will be conflict, and that they need to speed up the modernization of their army.

 

But, if you are correct, that China is making empty threats, what is the benefit to China?. Do they think we will negotiate on Taiwan?? Or concessions elsewhere? Or is this influenced by domestic politics?

Edited March 14, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84

[China]

I thought this thread was about Ukraine.  Talk about Taiwan somewhere else...start a new thread.

 

Russians tried to locate SAM Patriot during recent missile attack – Operational Command South

 

During the March 9 massive missile attack on Ukraine, the Russians were looking for Patriot SAM systems. This is according to Nataliia Humeniuk, the spokeswoman for the security and defense forces of Ukraine’s Operational Command South, UNIAN reports.

 

According to her, the Ukrainian Defense Forces knew the attack would be undulating, and expected the enemy to build up forces for it. First, the invaders launched kamikaze drones across Ukraine, then missiles. Such tactics were used to check whether Ukraine already has new air defense systems in service.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Moscow fumes as Ukraine considers changing Russia’s official name

 

Russian officials railed against Ukraine’s talk of changing Russia’s official name to Muscovy, after a Ukrainian petition regarding a potential name change garnered 25,000 signatures.

 

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky reportedly instructed Ukrainian Prime Minister Denis Shmygal to “carefully” consider renaming Russia to Muscovy, accounting for consequences under international law and whether it was possible in historical and cultural contexts.

 

The petition notes that the name “Muscovy” was “used in European and some Asian languages” and appeared “on many historical maps of the 16th-19th centuries, which were produced in Europe before and after the renaming of the Muscovite Empire to the All-Russian Empire.”

 

Dmitry Medvedev, a close ally of President Vladimir Putin and deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council, also reacted to the news, saying that they will not consider changing the name, according to The New Voice of Ukraine.

 

“The Supreme Nazi of Kyiv [Zelensky] instructed to work out the issue of renaming Russia to Muscovy. Well, what can I say … Our answer? No, of course not,” Medvedev said.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TheGreatBuzz]

48 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

you can’t cherry pick one phrase out of a paragraph.

 

Yes I can.  I literally JUST did it to your post that started this.  Aren't you paying attention?

 

51 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

But, if you are correct, that China is making empty threats, what is the benefit to China?. Do they think we will negotiate on Taiwan?? Or concessions elsewhere? Or is this influenced by domestic politics?

 

They get concessions on all sorts of ****.  It is just a tool in their tool box.  And Taiwan doesn't want to ruffle feathers either.  I'm more worried about the islands they are building.  

 

Anyways, I've smoked a considerable bit since before this comment just now so I'm going to chill.  Yall have fun.

45 minutes ago, China said:

thought this thread was about Ukraine.  Talk about Taiwan somewhere else...start a new thread.

 

**** I wasn't even paying attention.  My bad.  

[Pwyl]

1 hour ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

 

 

Is this sarcasm or did you just win Dumbest Thing Said On ES In 2023 award and it is only March?

The point was- amphibious assault <> ground invasion. I was being a bit over the top pedantic, as pointed out before.  

[China]

Russian jet collides with American drone over Black Sea, U.S. military says

 

A Russian Su-27 fighter jet collided with an American military drone over the Black Sea on Tuesday, the U.S. military said. U.S. forces brought down the drone in international waters, the U.S. military's European Command said in a statement, and the White House called the Russian plane's intercept of the unmanned aircraft "reckless."

 

"Our MQ-9 aircraft was conducting routine operations in international airspace when it was intercepted and hit by a Russian aircraft, resulting in a crash and complete loss of the MQ-9," U.S. Air Force General James Hecker, commander of U.S. Air Forces Europe and Air Forces Africa, said in a statement.

 

"In fact, this unsafe and unprofessional act by the Russians nearly caused both aircraft to crash," Hecker said.

 

At the Pentagon, Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said the Russian jet was likely damaged in the incident but it did land afterward. Ryder, a Pentagon spokesman, wouldn't say where the jet landed.

 

Ryder, who wouldn't say whether the drone was armed, referred to the unmanned aircraft as a MQ-9, but not a Reaper. The U.S. uses MQ-9 Reapers for both surveillance and strikes and has operated the drones in a variety of locations, including in the Middle East and Africa. Other countries, including Britain and France, also fly Reapers.

 

The drone was conducting an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance mission, Ryder said.

 

Russian intercepts in the Black Sea area are common, but this one "is noteworthy because of how unsafe and unprofessional it was, indeed reckless that it was," National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told journalists.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[China]

Poland May Give Ukraine MiG-29 Jets in Next 4-6 Weeks, Says PM

 

Poland could give Ukraine MiG-29 fighter jets in the coming four to six weeks, Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Tuesday, suggesting that Kyiv's allies were moving closer to an agreement on the next step in their military support for the country.

 

Poland has said it would be prepared to send Soviet-designed MiG-29 jets to Ukraine as part of a coalition of countries. However, with Kyiv's allies taking a cautious approach to the transfer of fighter jets it has been unclear how long such a process might take.

 

"That could happen in the coming 4-6 weeks," Morawiecki told a news conference when asked how long it could be before Warsaw supplies the aircraft.

 

Click on the link for the full article

[TheGreatBuzz]

14 minutes ago, China said:

Russian jet collides with American drone over Black Sea, U.S. military says

 

A Russian Su-27 fighter jet collided with an American military drone over the Black Sea on Tuesday, the U.S. military said. U.S. forces brought down the drone in international waters, the U.S. military's European Command said in a statement, and the White House called the Russian plane's intercept of the unmanned aircraft "reckless."

 

"Our MQ-9 aircraft was conducting routine operations in international airspace when it was intercepted and hit by a Russian aircraft, resulting in a crash and complete loss of the MQ-9," U.S. Air Force General James Hecker, commander of U.S. Air Forces Europe and Air Forces Africa, said in a statement.

 

"In fact, this unsafe and unprofessional act by the Russians nearly caused both aircraft to crash," Hecker said.

 

At the Pentagon, Air Force Brig. Gen. Pat Ryder said the Russian jet was likely damaged in the incident but it did land afterward. Ryder, a Pentagon spokesman, wouldn't say where the jet landed.

 

Ryder, who wouldn't say whether the drone was armed, referred to the unmanned aircraft as a MQ-9, but not a Reaper. The U.S. uses MQ-9 Reapers for both surveillance and strikes and has operated the drones in a variety of locations, including in the Middle East and Africa. Other countries, including Britain and France, also fly Reapers.

 

The drone was conducting an intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance mission, Ryder said.

 

Russian intercepts in the Black Sea area are common, but this one "is noteworthy because of how unsafe and unprofessional it was, indeed reckless that it was," National Security Council spokesman John Kirby told journalists.

 

Click on the link for the full article

 

And our response will be........

 

About as useful as Susan Collins?

[tshile]

2 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

And our response will be........

 

About as useful as Susan Collins?

Talking about red lines and such