Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: No, you do that will the entirety of your military power. But don’t be so naive, we aren’t just expending artillery. We are expending anti aircraft systems, basic ammo, ect. Fascinating. Tell me more of your deep thoughts on how we're "expending anti aircraft systems" and how that relates to deterring China from invading Taiwan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Pwyl said: Fascinating. Tell me more of your deep thoughts on how we're "expending anti aircraft systems" and how that relates to deterring China from invading Taiwan. You can read, “do your own research”! you can start here bro https://www.csis.org/analysis/first-battle-next-war-wargaming-chinese-invasion-taiwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 "do your own research" is the last whine of those who can't support their declarative statements. Bro. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Taiwan is approximately 5000 miles from Kyiv, so I’m very interested in learning the logistics of shuttling “anti aircraft systems” between those locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 59 minutes ago, TradeTheBeal! said: Taiwan is approximately 5000 miles from Kyiv, so I’m very interested in learning the logistics of shuttling “anti aircraft systems” between those locations. I would guess a similar way they got from the US to Germany and Ukraine. Or how a car built in Japan gets to America. But that is my point, once they are in Ukraine, you can’t sendthem to Taiwan. And once conflict is underway, it is too late to get supplies to Taiwan. That is why deterrence is the key. The authors of the war game state the same thing. We need to get those systems into Taiwan before China decides go attack. But those systems are a very limited resource. This is not a hard concept to grasp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 here is another article that states is generals are worried about depleted stockpiles: https://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-war-depleting-u-s-ammunition-stockpiles-sparking-pentagon-concern-11661792188 The U.S. has during the past six months supplied Ukraine with 16 U.S. rocket launchers, known as Himars, thousands of guns, drones, missiles and other equipment. Much of that, including ammunition, has come directly from U.S. inventory, depleting stockpiles intended for unexpected threats, defense officials say. The authors of the war game I linked to specifically mentioned HIMARS as equipment that Taiwan needs to stockpile before a Chinese invasion (eg Deterrent) but if stock piles are depleted, building that deterrent is going to be more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 3 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: I would guess a similar way they got from the US to Germany and Ukraine. Or how a car built in Japan gets to America. But that is my point, once they are in Ukraine, you can’t sendthem to Taiwan. And once conflict is underway, it is too late to get supplies to Taiwan. That is why deterrence is the key. The authors of the war game state the same thing. We need to get those systems into Taiwan before China decides go attack. But those systems are a very limited resource. This is not a hard concept to grasp. If China invades Taiwan, there will not be time to send the Taiwanese air/missile defense. China is going to hit them hard and fast, and possible US assets in Guam and Japan as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Old girl linked to a 165 page “war games” report from a neo-con think tank. No one’s gonna read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 hours ago, DCSaints_fan said: If China invades Taiwan, there will not be time to send the Taiwanese air/missile defense. China is going to hit them hard and fast, and possible US assets in Guam and Japan as well. Yes, that is what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Here's a great discussion of why the Russians are looking like hot garbage. If you squint your eyes just a little, it also explains why the argument of some for decentralizing everything won't always work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Yes, that is what I said. You said: "Yeah, that’s the problem. We need to restock our supply to deter/counter China" In response to an article about American stockpiles being depleted. And then proceeded to prove why those things don't connect, with a side of condescension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 You all are really gonna die on this hill that restocking supplies isn’t necessary? because you don’t see a real chance of land invasion with china? lol ok. Everyone else understands the concept of having a stock pile and restocking it when you use it. Not sure why this is so difficult to get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 I think some folks fail to understand that Taiwan has been stockpiling military hardware for decades in anticipation of potential conflict with China. Their Air Force and reservist capacity in particular are considered quite formidable. This is a much different situation than what has unfolded in Ukraine over the past year or so. Might wanna do some light googling before you compare the two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 That’s awesome info Has nothing to do with our stockpiles and their status though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, tshile said: You all are really gonna die on this hill that restocking supplies isn’t necessary? because you don’t see a real chance of land invasion with china? lol ok. Everyone else understands the concept of having a stock pile and restocking it when you use it. Not sure why this is so difficult to get. Quote someone who said that stockpiles aren't important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, tshile said: That’s awesome info Has nothing to do with our stockpiles and their status though. https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/2980014/the-department-of-defense-releases-the-presidents-fiscal-year-2023-defense-budg/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, Pwyl said: Quote someone who said that stockpiles aren't important. you seem to be taking issue with the idea that the stockpiles need to be replenished because someone mentioned a war with china. the stock piles need to be replenished for any number or reasons including things you personally don’t see as likely or important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, tshile said: you seem to be taking issue with the idea that the stockpiles need to be replenished because someone mentioned a war with china. the stock piles need to be replenished for any number or reasons including things you personally don’t see as likely or important. I took issue with the sentence I put in quotes. You seem to be taking issue with things no one has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Pwyl said: I took issue with the sentence I put in quotes. You seem to be taking issue with things no one has said. No I specifically mentioned what you said. your inability to foresee a land war with china had jack all to do with our militaries need and desire to be prepared for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) @Pwyl What I’m trying to say is that I think a land war with china is stupid and unlikely for any number of reasons. but that doesn’t change the fact our military needs (or feels to the need) to prepare for the possibility Edited March 13, 2023 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 27 minutes ago, tshile said: @Pwyl What I’m trying to say is that I think a land war with china is stupid and unlikely for any number of reasons. but that doesn’t change the fact our military needs (or feels to the need) to prepare for the possibility The US military isn't prepared to fight a land war with China. We're prepared to fight an air and naval war. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pwyl said: Quote someone who said that stockpiles aren't important. Stock piles are important for their deterrent effect. Taiwan needs more of the kinds of weapons we are sending to Ukraine in order to deter China from launching a ground invasion. The fact that Taiwan has a competent air force won’t help it repel a ground invasion, and is anyone seriously contending Taiwan could maintain air superiority over taiwan over an extended time period? Secondly, no one wants a land war, but once you go down the road of direct military intervention you don’t get to set boundaries of war unilaterally. Edited March 13, 2023 by CousinsCowgirl84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwyl Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 48 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: Stock piles are important for their deterrent effect. Taiwan needs more of the kinds of weapons we are sending to Ukraine in order to deter China from launching a ground invasion. The fact that Taiwan has a competent air force won’t help it repel a ground invasion, and is anyone seriously contending Taiwan could maintain air superiority over taiwan over an extended time period? Secondly, no one wants a land war, but once you go down the road of direct military intervention you don’t get to set boundaries of war unilaterally. Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it any more true. There would be next to no overlap in a venn diagram of "weapons we need to replenishb in american stockpiles from having sent them to Ukrainiane" and "weapons that serve as a deterrence to China doing anything". 2 hours ago, tshile said: you seem to be taking issue with the idea that the stockpiles need to be replenished because someone mentioned a war with china. the stock piles need to be replenished for any number or reasons including things you personally don’t see as likely or important. I took issue with the sentence I put in quotes. You seem to be taking issue with things no one has said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: The fact that Taiwan has a competent air force won’t help it repel a ground invasion Since everyone else in the Tailgate is calling in their area of expertise, I'll use mine to comment on this line above. *ahem* What the **** are you talking about? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 36 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Since everyone else in the Tailgate is calling in their area of expertise, I'll use mine to comment on this line above. *ahem* What the **** are you talking about? Do you think Taiwan can maintain air superiority for a long period of time or no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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