The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[CommanderCarson]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Until he learns to cover I dont have any faith in Cole or Jamin for that matter 

Cole has made some damn good plays in coverage to my eye!

[smooth]

cole has been fine! damn good thing we have had him!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim's latest podcast with Bram

 

Bram thinks they add a LB and S soon.  He also thinks Landon Collins still is in play.  Keim has said the same in the past about Collins but nothing recently on that front.  I know that's at odds with Standig who thinks its very unlikely Collins is back

 

As for why they don't spend like the Rams -- speculated they don't have the Rams cash flow to do it and Rams roster is more SB ready so it lends to more of a Yolo approach, if you go through their cap situations this team has much more salary covered down the road under the cap than the Rams, the Rams ultimately likely will have to do some kind of bloodletting to offset the win now moves.

 

Keim believes they would like to keep Payne still

 

They are both positive about them working out a deal with Terry, he's too important both on the field and off the field as to fans for them to lose him

 

Both are someone bullish on the season, Keim keeps doubling down that they win 10

 

Keim thinks its unlikely they do Richmond or do a co-camp with another team

 

Interested in Bradberry but only at the right price 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

From Fowler:

 

"

I'm told Washington spent mildly in free agency in part because it has budgeted for re-signing McLaurin. The Commanders see him as a true cornerstone and team leader. The money must validate that, and the ballooning receiver market -- with $20 million per year serving as a mere entrance fee into the club -- looms large here.

Through three seasons, McLaurin has averaged 1,030 yards annually despite playing with nine different quarterbacks, none of whom were long-term solutions at the position. That feat alone is worth serious coin.

"

[Robbob]

Bradberry going to the Eagles.

 

1 year $10 million

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Robbob said:

Bradberry going to the Eagles.

 

1 year $10 million

 

 

Eagles are almost Rams level aggressive this off season

[Since 83]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Welp, there goes the one shiny new toy I wanted this offseason lol

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Eagles are almost Rams level aggressive this off season

And still have 2 first round picks and plenty of cap next year. Howie has to be considered one of the leagues best at this point.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

And still have 2 first round picks and plenty of cap next year. Howie has to be considered one of the leagues best at this point.

 

I used to argue on behalf of the Eagles FO on the Bruce/GM thread years back and i got pushback from some on it.

 

Roseman wheels and deals in ways that Cerrato and Bruce could only dream to match.   He knows how to accumulate assets.  They also tend to get ahead of the game on contracts to keep their own.  

 

On another note, more talk by multiple reporters on the radio today about Dan's cash flow including paying back the big loan for buying out the minority partners.   Bram-Keim also mentioned cash flow as an issue this team might have to contend with as for signing FAs versus the Rams on the podcast they just did.

 

I know I get some pushback on the point.  And I don't claim that i know one way or another of course.  But at a minimum i don't think the whole notion is some wild and crazy theory. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

If I recall @Thinking Skins and i mean this in good spirits thought the Eagles FO is overrated?  If so, still do?

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FLSkinz83]

I'd really love to know if this is a cash flow issue or just Ron and crew being too conservative.    I think it might be a combination of both.

[NewCliche21]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall @Thinking Skins and i mean this in good spirits thought the Eagles FO is overrated?  If so, still do?

 

 

 

 

Like, ****.  That is so goddamn frustrating.

[FLSkinz83]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall @Thinking Skins and i mean this in good spirits thought the Eagles FO is overrated?  If so, still do?

 

 

 

 

Definitely overrated.    Go have a look at his first round picks since Andy Reid left

[Thinking Skins]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I recall @Thinking Skins and i mean this in good spirits thought the Eagles FO is overrated?  If so, still do?

 

 

 

I don't think I ever chaacterized them that way. I know I laugh at Roseman, but I have always liked their idea of getting rid of a guy too soon rather than too late. Not necessarily the trades, but just letting them go in FA and get big deals elsewhere. This was during the Vinny times where I was hating stuff like Lloyd and dude from Pitt. Not because I thought they'd be bad players but because FA means you're buying at the top of the market all the time (especially day 1 FAs). 

 

I was a bigger fan of Scot / Bruce / others because they invested in drafts ala Philly and Baltimore. I laugh at Roseman because while he is great at some areas, he has his obvious weaknesses, like creating a ship that's moving in one direction. Was that Wentz/Foles/Hurts thing all his creation? I don't have the time to look it up, but they clearly saw that Foles was limited which is why they drafted Wentz. Then Wentz takes them to the 11-2 record and obvious favorites to go to the SB. And he drafts a QB in the second. So its great to have the 10+ picks but you're not going to build your weapons? I even laugh at the picks from last year because they drafted a 5'8 WR who's not a number 1. AJ Brown is a good deal, but again I question the direction because I don't think Philly can utilize him how say a Rodgers could. 

 

But I spent years wishing that the Skins front office could be more like Philly and less like Dallas. 

[Thinking Skins]

And I'll just add to this, about that post. Again, Wentz had them at 11-2 before getting injured. People talk about us drafting Mathis and how its just a hole we created by getting rid of Settle and Matt Ioannitis. But that's the same thing that Philly just did. They got rid of a franchise guy (for them at least) and replaced him with someone who is not as good, after giving him a big contract. Fired the coach that won the SB with him. Had to change the offense to one that will not work in the playoffs or as history generally shows (see Vince Young, RG3, Lamarr Jackson) doesn't work the second year or if said QB tries to throw more. The hopes are that Hurts can develop more like Murray than RG3 or Jackson because otherwise we're going to see teams stack the box and dare Philly to beat them like they did in the playoffs. But the Rams beat Arizona the same way. So what's Hurts going to develop into? Cam? Kaep? There's not much upside for a run first QB and so you'll see him flame out like the rest. And that's who they replaced Wentz with. 

 

 

[markmills67]

Biggest spenders to cheapskates, 4th in the nfc East staring us right in the face 😠 but don't worry there's a couple of cheap ex Panthers out there on the prowl 🙄

[Skinsinparadise]

Eagles have missed on some first rounders, so have we and pretty much every other team.  They are overall good at drafting, certainly not the best.  But Roseman IMO is the best at 2 things.  A.  Collecting draft capital.  B.  Resigning their own before their contract price escalates.

 

The fact that we've giving up a ton of draft capital and yes @Thinking Skins so has Bruce while collecting back almost no draft capital.  The highest draft pick we've gotten back for a veteran is a third rounder for Trent in Dan whole 20 plus year tenure. We've gotten like nothing for our assets.  Heck Roseman even got a first rounder and change for Bradford.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33297949/nfl-draft-which-teams-gotten-best-value-2012-rank-all-32

NFL draft: Which teams have gotten the best value since 2012? We rank all 32

6. Philadelphia Eagles

Career Approximate Value Over Expected (CAVOE) of draft picks, 2012-2021: 75.7

Record from 2012-2021: 82-78-1, 14th

Eagles Draft Classes, 2012-2021

YEAR	CLASS CAVOE	TOP PLAYER BY CAVOE (RD.)	LEAST CAVOE (RD.)
2012	60.9	DT Fletcher Cox, 32.8 (1st)	G Brandon Washington, -7.5 (6th)
2013	34.6	S Jordan Poyer, 37.1 (7th)	QB Matt Barkley, -7.4 (4th)
2014	-70.8	DT Beau Allen, 8.8 (7th)	LB Marcus Smith, -40.1 (1st)
2015	-5.7	LB Jordan Hicks, 18.7 (3rd)	CB Eric Rowe, -8.2 (2nd)
2016	49.8	S Jalen Mills, 19.5 (7th)	DE Alex McCalister, -4.3 (7th)
2017	-21.4	S Nathan Gerry, 11.7 (5th)	CB Sidney Jones, -10.3 (2nd)
2018	29.9	TE Dallas Goedert, 9.7 (2nd)	CB Avonte Maddox, 2.5 (4th)
2019	-18.8	RB Miles Sanders, 8.9 (2nd)	T Andre Dillard, -10.9 (1st)
2020	13.3	QB Jalen Hurts, 14.7 (2nd)	WR Jalen Reagor, -3.2 (1st)
2021	3.9	WR DeVonta Smith, 4.2 (1st)	DL Marlon Tuipulotu, -1.6 (6th)
TOTAL	75.7

Best class from 2012-2021 drafts: 2012. They moved up in the first round to select defensive tackle Fletcher Cox, now a six-time Pro Bowler, and added a pair of impact defensive players in the second round in defensive end Vinny Curry and linebacker Mychal Kendricks. There is still regret in the building that they waited too long to select quarterback Russell Wilson in this draft, but they still walked away with Nick Foles, who reached legend status in Philadelphia after outdueling Tom Brady in Super Bowl LII. If we're talking hit rate, the 2018 class deserves some love with four of the five picks (Dallas Goedert, Avonte Maddox, Josh Sweat and Jordan Mailata) playing sizable roles for the Eagles in 2021. -- Tim McManus

CAVOE from Day 3 draft picks (Rounds 4-7): 48.7, 11th

 

Best Day 3 steal? DE Josh Sweat, fourth round, 2018. Sweat was able to overcome a horrific knee injury in high school to allay durability concerns and return to his pre-injury form. As a result he was given a three-year, $40 million extension for his success. -- Reid

Edited May 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

@Skinsinparadise, I agree and this is one area where I respected Bruce for what he was "trying" to do (I put it in quotes because he still traded for McNabb and Smith when we didn't need to). He changed our philosophy from forget the draft, especially after the first round (remember the Vinny quote on trading 2 firsts for AJ Green) into one where we had 8-10 picks a year and a nice collection of UDFAs coming in every year. He still wasn't making the wise decisions on (1) who to keep vs who to let go and (2) good draft boards. 

 

I'm not as salty about that part of it though because you said, every team has their pros and cons and I liked Bruce / Doug mainly because of Kyle Smith who was an actual scout and who I thought had talent and we saw our drafts do well. There were a lot of mistakes or calculations that we would probably like a do-over Watt vs Kerrington and Hankerson, Lawrence vs Moses and Long (or was it the LB),  etc. 

 

You can speak about the value of the Eagles drafts and they did win a SB in that time frame, but that's the point. They've been a better franchise. They have been what we want to be like. I was happy when they traded Wentz because I could see that Wentz was better than Hurtz - still is. I mean he had more yards, more TDs, less ints, and a better record. And this is who they're getting rewarded for getting rid of. 

 

Its the whole gossip of the offseason. People are acting like Wentz fell off a cliff and was putting up boo boo numbers last year and that's just not true. Good thing is that these games are not decided by public opinion and we'll see come week 3 when he gets a chance to get revenge. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

@Skinsinparadise, I agree and this is one area where I respected Bruce for what he was "trying" to do (I put it in quotes because he still traded for McNabb and Smith when we didn't need to). He changed our philosophy from forget the draft, especially after the first round (remember the Vinny quote on trading 2 firsts for AJ Green) into one where we had 8-10 picks a year and a nice collection of UDFAs coming in every year. He still wasn't making the wise decisions on (1) who to keep vs who to let go and (2) good draft boards. 

 

I'm not as salty about that part of it though because you said, every team has their pros and cons and I liked Bruce / Doug mainly because of Kyle Smith who was an actual scout and who I thought had talent and we saw our drafts do well. There were a lot of mistakes or calculations that we would probably like a do-over Watt vs Kerrington and Hankerson, Lawrence vs Moses and Long (or was it the LB),  etc. 

 

You can speak about the value of the Eagles drafts and they did win a SB in that time frame, but that's the point. They've been a better franchise. They have been what we want to be like. I was happy when they traded Wentz because I could see that Wentz was better than Hurtz - still is. I mean he had more yards, more TDs, less ints, and a better record. And this is who they're getting rewarded for getting rid of. 

 

Its the whole gossip of the offseason. People are acting like Wentz fell off a cliff and was putting up boo boo numbers last year and that's just not true. Good thing is that these games are not decided by public opinion and we'll see come week 3 when he gets a chance to get revenge. 

 

I am ok with the Wentz trade from our stand point.  I don't dislike it though from the Eagles point of view as to their trade because of what they obtained back.  But yeah unlike some I am not a big Hurts guy so I agree he limits them.  And as much as i am jazzed about Wentz, I am not counting it as in the bag 100% success.  I do still need to see it play out. 

 

The trade down that Rivera did in this draft was good IMO.  Moving down 5 picks actually ended up adding 4 picks as for adding up to everything they did with that capital.  But that type of move is somewhat unsual for this organization.  Roseman routinely finds way to add value.  He has gotten high picks for his own players.   He's navigated around the draft to pick up future #1 picks multiple times.  the last time we added a future first round pick ((heck we never even added a 2nd) was back in the 1990s under Casserly.   Roseman adds high picks like its nothing.  Our FO, all of them under Dan have been allergic to adding high picks for future drafts.

 

I recall JP Finlay saying and I said this on the board at the time during the summer 2017 that talking to his sources at the FO he got the impression that they are perfectly OK with renting Kirk for another year regardless of the conseqence.  And as far as they are concerned 2018 is like 10 years from now or something like that.  Marrying that point and Jay explaining that he explained to the FO/Bruce that they will lose Kirk, he wants out and they should take the first round pick and change offer from SF and Jay was blown off about it -- that if anything sings the song of the Dan era.  Can you imagine Howie Roseman blowing off the 2nd pick in the draft and change just to rent a player for one more season?  I can't.  But that's how this organization has rolled forever. 

Edited May 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I will say too much love can sometimes jinx a team.  Eagles seem to be the darling of the off season and the national media.    Winning the divison already a forgone conclusion to some of them, I am waiting for the slam dunk SB winner talk coming. 

 

 

 

 

[Franklin60]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Eagles have missed on some first rounders, so have we and pretty much every other team.  They are overall good at drafting, certainly not the best.  But Roseman IMO is the best at 2 things.  A.  Collecting draft capital.  B.  Resigning their own before their contract price escalates.

 

The fact that we've giving up a ton of draft capital and yes @Thinking Skins so has Bruce while collecting back almost no draft capital.  The highest draft pick we've gotten back for a veteran is a third rounder for Trent in Dan whole 20 plus year tenure. We've gotten like nothing for our assets.  Heck Roseman even got a first rounder and change for Bradford.  

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/33297949/nfl-draft-which-teams-gotten-best-value-2012-rank-all-32

NFL draft: Which teams have gotten the best value since 2012? We rank all 32

6. Philadelphia Eagles

Career Approximate Value Over Expected (CAVOE) of draft picks, 2012-2021: 75.7

Record from 2012-2021: 82-78-1, 14th

Eagles Draft Classes, 2012-2021

YEAR	CLASS CAVOE	TOP PLAYER BY CAVOE (RD.)	LEAST CAVOE (RD.)
2012	60.9	DT Fletcher Cox, 32.8 (1st)	G Brandon Washington, -7.5 (6th)
2013	34.6	S Jordan Poyer, 37.1 (7th)	QB Matt Barkley, -7.4 (4th)
2014	-70.8	DT Beau Allen, 8.8 (7th)	LB Marcus Smith, -40.1 (1st)
2015	-5.7	LB Jordan Hicks, 18.7 (3rd)	CB Eric Rowe, -8.2 (2nd)
2016	49.8	S Jalen Mills, 19.5 (7th)	DE Alex McCalister, -4.3 (7th)
2017	-21.4	S Nathan Gerry, 11.7 (5th)	CB Sidney Jones, -10.3 (2nd)
2018	29.9	TE Dallas Goedert, 9.7 (2nd)	CB Avonte Maddox, 2.5 (4th)
2019	-18.8	RB Miles Sanders, 8.9 (2nd)	T Andre Dillard, -10.9 (1st)
2020	13.3	QB Jalen Hurts, 14.7 (2nd)	WR Jalen Reagor, -3.2 (1st)
2021	3.9	WR DeVonta Smith, 4.2 (1st)	DL Marlon Tuipulotu, -1.6 (6th)
TOTAL	75.7

Best class from 2012-2021 drafts: 2012. They moved up in the first round to select defensive tackle Fletcher Cox, now a six-time Pro Bowler, and added a pair of impact defensive players in the second round in defensive end Vinny Curry and linebacker Mychal Kendricks. There is still regret in the building that they waited too long to select quarterback Russell Wilson in this draft, but they still walked away with Nick Foles, who reached legend status in Philadelphia after outdueling Tom Brady in Super Bowl LII. If we're talking hit rate, the 2018 class deserves some love with four of the five picks (Dallas Goedert, Avonte Maddox, Josh Sweat and Jordan Mailata) playing sizable roles for the Eagles in 2021. -- Tim McManus

CAVOE from Day 3 draft picks (Rounds 4-7): 48.7, 11th

 

Best Day 3 steal? DE Josh Sweat, fourth round, 2018. Sweat was able to overcome a horrific knee injury in high school to allay durability concerns and return to his pre-injury form. As a result he was given a three-year, $40 million extension for his success. -- Reid

Jordan Mailata was a 7th round pick in the same draft as Sweat, and he’s clearly the better player. 

[Koolblue13]

54 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

And I'll just add to this, about that post. Again, Wentz had them at 11-2 before getting injured. People talk about us drafting Mathis and how its just a hole we created by getting rid of Settle and Matt Ioannitis. But that's the same thing that Philly just did. They got rid of a franchise guy (for them at least) and replaced him with someone who is not as good, after giving him a big contract. Fired the coach that won the SB with him. Had to change the offense to one that will not work in the playoffs or as history generally shows (see Vince Young, RG3, Lamarr Jackson) doesn't work the second year or if said QB tries to throw more. The hopes are that Hurts can develop more like Murray than RG3 or Jackson because otherwise we're going to see teams stack the box and dare Philly to beat them like they did in the playoffs. But the Rams beat Arizona the same way. So what's Hurts going to develop into? Cam? Kaep? There's not much upside for a run first QB and so you'll see him flame out like the rest. And that's who they replaced Wentz with. 

 

 

and if Hurts isn't their guy, they find out this season and roll into the best QB draft in over a decade with 4 top 60 picks again.

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am ok with the Wentz trade from our stand point.  I don't dislike it though from the Eagles point of view as to their trade because of what they obtained back.  But yeah unlike some I am not a big Hurts guy so I agree he limits them.  And as much as i am jazzed about Wentz, I am not counting it as in the bag 100% success.  I do still need to see it play out. 

 

I am not really in the Wentz camp just yet. I'm in the offseason camp so I'm not really seeing football, so its hard to judge football camp. We all remember the Ryan Grant stories or the RG3 Workout videos and they were a bunch of nothing. I can talk about why the narrative about Wentz is not a good one. I like Hurts, but just not as a long time starter. History shows that a lot of these running QBs have a challenge of passing more because they get so dependent on their legs. One of the best at running it was Vick and he did a change late in his career. Another great was Cunningham and he was able to lead the Vikings to 15-1 late in his career but that's not an easy transition and I'm thinking that Eagles struggle to be around .500 this year before they move onto Young next year. 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The trade down that Rivera did in this draft was good IMO.  Moving down 5 picks actually ended up adding 4 picks as for adding up to everything they did with that capital.  But that type of move is somewhat unsual for this organization.  Roseman routinely finds way to add value.  He has gotten high picks for his own players.   He's navigated around the draft to pick up future #1 picks multiple times.  the last time we added a future first round pick ((heck we never even added a 2nd) was back in the 1990s under Casserly.   Roseman adds high picks like its nothing.  Our FO, all of them under Dan have been allergic to adding high picks for future drafts.

 

So now we're talking draft strategy. And its about more than just BPA and need. There are things like scheme fit, coachability, leadership, locker room fit, ceiling, floor, play speed, mistakes, position versatility, etc. Last year was about these athletic super flex guys who were raw. And we saw the limits of that in many of them not adapting to the league as easily as others. This year is almost the opposite of that in that we're going after guys who can have an immediate impact. I don't agree with whoever was on some show saying that we went after need only because I don't see DT or RB as a need pick more than LB or CB or S, but I do see them as BPA in terms of immediate results. 

 

Its funny that you mention Casserly because he's the guy who got me loving drafts in how he wheeled and dealed in the draft. But he was great at lower round picks (Stephen Alexander, Jamie Asher, Tre Johnson, etc). but he couldn't make the first rounders to save his life (story was a lot of those were Norv picks but still). And he had problems drafting defense (Sterling Palmer, Kenard Lang, Greg Lloyd).. And I'm seeing the same thing with Philly. they are getting good players, but aside from Cox, I see a lot of guys who are getting them value but not really impact players. Contrast that with Dallas and you see the pro bowlers / all pro guys. Kelce and Ertz are names that come to mind but I'd put Jordan Reed and Williams/Scherff against them as draft picks of value. just happens that two of these three had injury problems that shortened their careers. I think WIlliams > Kelce > Scherff but the way we fumbled the Williams situation is another story that is too depressing to think about right now.

 

But point is that I think they are comparable to us in a lot of ways and the biggest thing they had done is getting Wentz (and Cox), who took them to 11-2 on route to a 13 win season and SB win. Then they get rid of him 2 years later and get rid of the coach that won it. Finding a franchise QB is not easy. So I don't think they're as great as the tweet indicates unless you want to do what you always call me on, and that's celebrate making the playoffs and losing in the wild card every year. That's a step up for us but a step down for the Eagles. 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I recall JP Finlay and I said this on the board at the time during the summer 2017 that talking to his sources at the FO he got the impression that they are perfectly OK with renting Kirk for another year regardless of the conseqence.  And as far as they are concerned 2018 is like 10 years from now or something like that.  Marrying that point and Jay explaining that he explained to the FO/Bruce that they will lose Kirk and they should take the first round pick and change offer from SF and he was blown off about it -- that if anything sings the song of the Dan era.  Can you imagine Howie Roseman blowing off the 2nd pick in the draft and change just to rent a player for one more season?  I can't.  But that's how this organization has rolled forever. 

This I completely agree with. I thougt it was so absurd that I refused to believe it was true. No way would we turn down a 1st (or multiple firsts) out of spite. But we did, twice. Its so frustrating. 

[FLSkinz83]

The Eagles are frauds.  Their coaching staff stinks.   They have a mediocre QB.   I'll take Wentz over Hurts any day.  

 

Some people love Jordan Davis....I don't.   He's a two down player.    

 

I like our roster and coaching staff better.  

 

P.S.  Sign a few defensive players, Ron!