The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

30 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Oh no.  Please tell me we’re not going to have to argue about idiot Jay Gruden’s take on QBs. 
 

Please God. No.

[zCommander]

My son just told me that RG3 was getting crushed, on X/twitter, after he said the Steelers were going to trade for Fields. People thought he was stupid. RG3 being right for once? The Commanders loading up? Have we entered an alternate universe? lol 

 

Edited March 17 by zCommander

[Destino]

5 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Oh no.  Please tell me we’re not going to have to argue about idiot Jay Gruden’s take on QBs. 
 

Please God. No.

We haven’t had an offense as good since Jay left, man. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 minute ago, Destino said:

We haven’t had an offense as good since Jay left, man. 

We haven’t had a good offense since McVay and Kirk left.

 

Jay was a TERRIBLE offensive coach.  His best offenses here were coordinated by McVay and QBed by Kirk.  When they were gone, the offense sucked.  
 

I still don’t get it.  He was a bad coach who left in disgrace and he’s getting an image restoration project.

 

Ron goes on ESPN and everybody laughs and points at him as though he’s a clown.  
 

They’re both clowns and should be treated as such.  
 

Oh, he was pretty crappy as an OC in Jax after he left here and hasn’t been hired since either in the media or coaching.  
 

The NFL has spoken.  He’s a fool.  

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Yep, this could still be a suboptimal outcome for the Bears if Caleb doesn’t live up to the hype and Stroud keeps ascending. 

 

Caleb is a better prospect than Stroud was.  Prospects are just prospects though.  It's also not just Caleb vs Stroud, they're probably getting Odunze too, and they got Moore.

 

Feels like that offense is about to tap dance on the NFC.  They are loaded now.  Brutal division, but they should be able to hang with Green Bay and Detroit long term.

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

We haven’t had a good offense since McVay and Kirk left.

 

Jay was a TERRIBLE offensive coach.  His best offenses here were coordinated by McVay and QBed by Kirk.  When they were gone, the offense sucked.  
 

I still don’t get it.  He was a bad coach who left in disgrace and he’s getting an image restoration project.

 

Ron goes on ESPN and everybody laughs and points at him as though he’s a clown.  
 

They’re both clowns and should be treated as such.  
 

Oh, he was pretty crappy as an OC in Jax after he left here and hasn’t been hired since either in the media or coaching.  
 

The NFL has spoken.  He’s a fool.  

 

Not defending Jay. But remember Bruce did trade for Alex Smith and Jay didn't even knew about it. We had the 13th pick that year and could have traded up 6 or 7 spots for Josh Allen instead. Wonder what the offense would have looked like with Allen instead. 

[CapsSkins]

I have always said Chicago drafting Caleb is the most likely outcome but I really don’t get why it’s so preposterous to think Chicago might prefer Maye/Daniels + several picks vs. Caleb straight up. They all have risks as prospects.

 

It’s so weird to see media people and fans act like Chicago’s decision was Caleb vs Fields. Fields is terrible and was always getting jettisoned. The decision for Chicago is which QB prospect they like best and by how much.

[Skintime]

18 minutes ago, zCommander said:

My son just told me that RG3 was getting crushed, on X/twitter, after he said the Steelers were going to trade for Fields. People thought he was stupid. RG3 being right for once? The Commanders loading up? Have we entered an alternate universe? lol 

 

End times?

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Panninho said:

All the TV guys (Orlovsky and co) talked about how they would trade a first for Fields if they were a team needing a QB. Some even suggested we should rather trade for Fields than take a QB this year.

So maybe we should take their judgement on QB prospects also with a grain of salt. They seem to be completely detached from league reality.

 

TV guys like Orlovsky aren't t even draftniks, much less serious evaluators.  Their job is making TV content.  Their goal isn't good evaluation, it's making content and generating discussion and creating unnuanced, easily digestible narratives.  We definitely should not be caring about what they say on prospects, they are shockingly bad at this.

 

We should be forming our own takes period.  But failing that, we should listen to the draftnik media guys for whom this is their passion and livelihood.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Fields saw that Darnold the Destroyer was coming to Minnesota to dominate and flexed a trade outside the division.

 

Savvy move.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

If they can get Caleb to play in structure for even 75% of the time that team is going to be a major ****ing problem. Caleb can spray it anywhere on the field. From crazy arm angles and with the best pocket movement I have ever seen. He isnt a flawless prospect but god damn I hope Chicago passes on him. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

 

Not defending Jay. But remember Bruce did trade for Alex Smith and Jay didn't even knew about it. We had the 13th pick that year and could have traded up 6 or 7 spots for Josh Allen instead. Wonder what the offense would have looked like with Allen instead. 

Forget Bruce blowing everything. 
 

Alex Smith had been a 10-15 QB for at least 5 years if not longer when Jay got him.  2017 was his best season with Reid.

 

Jay immediately made him suck because his offense is actively bad and he calls a crap game.  
 

Jay had 2 years of being better than a crap coach when he was the OC of the bengals with Any Dalton.  
 

Thats it.  Then he got nepotism hired by Bruce because of the Jon/Bruce connection.  He had 2 ok seasons here where they went 9-7 and 8-8-1. With McVay and Kirk.  

He was terrible.  His opinion should count for dirt.  Just like Ron’s.  

Edited March 17 by Voice_of_Reason

[CommanderInTheRye]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

 

 

 

Man I could go for a one of those big old sloppy Primanti Bros. sammiches right now!!

 

 

 

Mmmm...

.

[mudhog]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Because Howell is a better QB. And the entire league knows it. 

I would also add that it shows a lot of class by GMAP that he traded Sam to the Seahawks and gave him an optimal situation for success. Versus, using him as an asset in trade talks with Denver for possibly poaching their LT. It(hypothetically) might have given us much more trade value in seeking their LT, but at the cost of Sam's proper development/success due to the fact that they most likely will be fielding a team of scrubs in order to tank for next year. Just the way I see it anyways.

[clskinsfan]

4 minutes ago, mudhog said:

I would also add that it shows a lot of class by GMAP that he traded Sam to the Seahawks and gave him an optimal situation for success. Versus, using him as an asset in trade talks with Denver for possibly poaching their LT. It(hypothetically) might have given us much more trade value in seeking their LT, but at the cost of Sam's proper development/success due to the fact that they most likely will be fielding a team of scrubs in order to tank for next year. Just the way I see it anyways.

I dont know man. Payton might have been the one to actually teach Sam. But Sam isnt his kind of QB. He wants a fast processing pocket guy. Thats what makes his system work. Penix is a perfect fit for him. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Caleb is a better prospect than Stroud was.  Prospects are just prospects though.  It's also not just Caleb vs Stroud, they're probably getting Odunze too, and they got Moore.

 

Feels like that offense is about to tap dance on the NFC.  They are loaded now.  Brutal division, but they should be able to hang with Green Bay and Detroit long term.

Yes, I’m using hindsight here in calling it a potentially suboptimal outcome. Odunze and Moore are largely irrelevant if Caleb busts or is just an “average” starter, while Stroud becomes a legit top 5 QB. 
 

It really just speaks to the impact the QB position has on everyone’s fortunes within an organization. If the Bears somehow screw up Caleb Williams landing in their lap (which may happen given they went the lame duck HC route yet AGAIN), their decision to pass on Stroud will be questioned for years to come with the benefit of hindsight, fairly or not. 

[Jags]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

Wonder what the offense would have looked like with Allen instead. 

 

No need to wonder.  We'd have broken his leg and almost killed him just like Alex, and he'd never have become "Josh Allen, NFL Star."  He just would have been Josh, that dude at the car wash who keeps saying he used to be in the NFL...

 

Oh, that guy that left all those spots on my rims?

 

Yeah, that guy.

 

Pffft.  He wasn't in the NFL.  Prolly just from north Florida or some ****...

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Orlovsky is an idiot.  Simms is a moron.  And this isn’t a new thing.  They’ve been idiots and morons forever.  
 

And Warner went on TV during the draft and said he has no idea how to judge the future of college players, that’s why he just watches NFL film.

 

I like Kurt.  But he probably watched the film the way I did, despising every minute of watching college offenses. 
 

While his analysis is better than the others he has openly admitted he has no idea how to project college QB play to NFL play.  

I have noticed that you sometimes call NFL legends idiots and morons. Guys who played in the NFL for many years. Hard to believe that they haven't soaked in tons of knowledge ( that us mere game watchers will never have ) I know Orlovsky wasn't a legend but he played for years in the NFL. I have watched him break down film several times. He seems very articulate and extremely knowledgeable. Just sayin.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I have noticed that you sometimes call NFL legends idiots and morons. Guys who played in the NFL for many years. Hard to believe that they haven't soaked in tons of knowledge ( that us mere game watchers will never have ) I know Orlovsky wasn't a legend but he played for years in the NFL. I have watched him break down film several times. He seems very articulate and extremely knowledgeable. Just sayin.

PFF nd ESPN keep throwing his applications out so he's just a little mad about it.

[Acworth skins fan]

39 minutes ago, mudhog said:

I would also add that it shows a lot of class by GMAP that he traded Sam to the Seahawks and gave him an optimal situation for success. Versus, using him as an asset in trade talks with Denver for possibly poaching their LT. It(hypothetically) might have given us much more trade value in seeking their LT, but at the cost of Sam's proper development/success due to the fact that they most likely will be fielding a team of scrubs in order to tank for next year. Just the way I see it anyways.

do you really think that class has anything to do with trades?if you trade a pro athelete do you have class or get the best deal you can find?

[mudhog]

1 minute ago, Acworth skins fan said:

do you really think that class has anything to do with trades?if you trade a pro athelete do you have class or get the best deal you can find?

My point about the trade value is that it's been said by a few sources that we were poking around Garret Bowels as to a trade. And that Denver was interested in Sam Howell. So, a deal could have gone either way with them. Neither happened. Just sayin

[Voice_of_Reason]

16 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I have noticed that you sometimes call NFL legends idiots and morons. Guys who played in the NFL for many years. Hard to believe that they haven't soaked in tons of knowledge ( that us mere game watchers will never have ) I know Orlovsky wasn't a legend but he played for years in the NFL. I have watched him break down film several times. He seems very articulate and extremely knowledgeable. Just sayin.

As soon as you join the draftnik community you cease to be concerned with being right and you have to be interesting.

 

And therefor they, for the most part, become idiots. 

[Jags]

2 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

I have noticed that you sometimes call NFL legends idiots and morons. Guys who played in the NFL for many years. Hard to believe that they haven't soaked in tons of knowledge ( that us mere game watchers will never have ) I know Orlovsky wasn't a legend but he played for years in the NFL. I have watched him break down film several times. He seems very articulate and extremely knowledgeable. Just sayin.

 

I think they're all individuals with varying levels of credibility.  Orlovsky is a conceited dope.  I forget the sequence, but early on after the start of the offseason he came out guns blazing about one of the top prospects.  It wasn't Caleb, one of the other two.  He'd just finished watching all this film and DUDE, THIS is the guy to watch out for.  THIS guy is the best.  Then a couple weeks later he's on some other show having just watched a bunch of film on another one and THAT was suddenly the guy.  Orlovsky undermines his own credibility pretty constantly.

 

I like Simms though.  He does his rankings around the same time every year, and in hindsight he's done pretty well.  Definitely got some right that most didn't.  He's also thorough and thoughtful with his analysis.  There's always a lot I don't agree with, but at least he's candid about what he's seeing and how he came to the conclusions he did.  I disagree that he's just shilling for clicks.  He stands by his takes, and they talk in depth about them to start the show the following year.  So he puts his name on it, so to speak, which is more than you can say for a lot of these guys who change their minds every 20 minutes.

 

And the stuff out there from Warner.  That's legit.  He's not saying who's better than who or which team should draft which guy.  He's just sharing what he sees; the things he personally finds meaningful and why.  And you're free to take it as you find it.

 

I think the majority of the ex-players shouldn't be dismissed so easily or lumped in with the clueless talking heads.  And it's pretty easy to spot the ones that you *should* ignore because they're pretty transparent and ham-fisted about the self-promotion and hot takes.

[Voice_of_Reason]

15 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

PFF nd ESPN keep throwing his applications out so he's just a little mad about it.

[mac8887]

3 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Cherry Pick? I posted every single play he made in the first half. A half where he had FOUR completions. You should do a breakdown for us bro. But right now I am gonna have to put you on ignore. Because quite honestly you are pissing me off. 

RO= read option, Ho= handoff, Ni= not involved, p=play

 

 5 minutes left in first half Mizu up 22-10

daniels at this point is 4 of 7 for around 60 yds and a Td, with a few rush yards, not many. He has missed a couple of throws, only one was a bad miss, but still the right read. 0 turnovers, and they have been focusing on the run.

 

p1. Ho for 10 yards, up the middle, edges can’t crash, fear jd5 speed

p2. Qb run, 10 yds, made first guy miss, good run, called back for holding

p3. RO, HO, defender tackles jd5 instead of ball carrier, RB goes untuched for 36 yards then tackled. Jd5 is a Rbs dream teammate.

p5. HO, play blown up by d line, first closest defender goes after Jd5 so RB gets 4 yds

 

p6. Easy swing pass Td, 7 yds, the running game helps open plays like this up.

p7. Empty set, qb draw, 30 yds, only 3 QBs in the league pull this off.

p8. HO jd5 is NI on this play for the most part

at this point he is 6/9 81 yards, 1 Td, 60 rush yards.

p9. Reading field left to right hits nabers, his second read, on a button hook. D had sent a corner blitz, Daniels saw it, used his eyes to look a defender playing zone over to cover the flat, and then hit nabers for the completion, nabers had space do to Daniels moving the defender with his eyes so nabers was able to make 13 extra yards after catch. 
p10. Some mix between a fade and corner route from left hash to back right pylon. 20-25 air yards on pass, reciever was held and then stumbled at the end of route. No call, good read, good throw, if reciever wasn’t grabbed it would’ve been a Td, fell incomplete just out of the reach of the receiver.

 

P11. HO stuffed

p12. Empty set, box fade, poorly run route with good coverage, reciever didn’t give Jayden enough room to the sideline for a back shoulder throw. It was the right read, but the ball is deflected, falls incomplete. As great as the LSU receivers are, this was not their best game, a few drops, and this poorly run route.

p13.HO,NI

p14. Play action, rolls left, squares shoulders, 50 yd beautiful Td pass in the air, perfect accuracy, great touch, led receiver just enough to make it a super easy catch

p15. HO, d line playing wide, trying to protect against JD5 getting edge, leads to easy run up the middle for RB

 

p16. Pass, starts his progressions at left hash, makes his way all the way over to the right outside boundary and hits his 3rd read in his progression on a 15 yard out route on time with perfect accuracy. An NFL throw, nfl timing, receiver was open. 
p17. HO, wide d line, they are unable to crash the line to stop the run because they are to worried about stopping Jayden possibly getting the edge for a big gain, can’t stack the box because he is really starting to pick them apart through the air as well, leads to a 15 yd easy run for RB

p18. Qb draw 3yd gain, goes down fairly easy at first contact, more weight on his frame would really help in this situation, would’ve helped him fall forward for extra yards.

p19. Play action, roll left, shuffle pass, neat little gimmick play, Jayden draws a defender and receiver gets an easy 7 yards, you can tell that the game plan was to not let Jayden get the edge. LSU really capitalized on this.

p20. Tight window throw, called pi in the endzone. Guy was draped on reciever, but ball was placed where only receiver could get it, He doesn’t make bad throws that leave you wondering what in the world he was seeing.

p21. High snap, Jayden rescues the play by tapping the ball to himself, somehow scrambles into the endzone where he is hit late after he thought he scored and had noticeably pulled up out of his protective stance. Play called back for holding, Jayden hurt ribs and out for rest of drive, the backup comes in moves the team backwards and lsu misses fg. 32-27 mizzu at this point.

p22. Jd5 comes back in, he is tuff, no one open, scrambles, holding offense.

p23. HO, line blown up, Jd5 gets hit as he hands it off, no gain. The LSU o line is ok-good, there is nothing great about the o line.

p24.3rd and 9 from own 9. Receivers run verts with one comeback short of the sticks, no throw to make, jd5 takes off, gets the edge and gets the 1st down.

p25. Empty backfield, pass, stands tall, starts his read on right sideline, works his progression all the way over to the left sideline on an in breaking 15-18 yard route. This was his 4th read in his progression and hit him on time, accurately, and in stride. Receiver was open but it was amazing how fast he was able to get to him going all the way across the field with his reads.

 

he does hit a lot of open guys, but he is going through his progressions fast to find the open guys, he will need to pull the trigger more often on guys not as open, but he is truly amazing at going through his progressions. He processes the field faster than the rest of the guys coming out of college this year. He will just have to learn what nfl open looks like and pull the trigger when the throw is there.

 

One reason his sack to pressure rate is so high, is because most pass plays they run, his legs are the designed check down, sometimes it leads to huge gains because the short middle of the field is wide open if he gets past the LOS, but if he doesn’t, there is no other person to throw to.

 

p26. Play action, rolls left, dump off, easy pass and catch that most teams run to get their qb an easy completion, good for 7 yards.

p27. Go route, under thrown, rg3 blames hurt ribs, I give him no excuse, he needs to make this throw, easy 45 air yard Td drops incomplete, under thrown by a couple feet, hit receiver in hands but receiver had to slow down and defender got in position to make a play. This play was a major disappointment, but it would’ve been worse if he airmailed it, I’d always rather plays like this be thrown a little short than long, at least then you give the receiver a chance,

p28. Next play, qb draw for a 35 yd Td, jd5 is so fast, tackled in endzone, can tell he is still in pain, he is tuff.

p29. Zips into tight window for 2 pt. Good accurate throw where only his guy has a chance, and did it with perfect timing.

p30. Rolls right, 10 yard completion throwing on the run into tight coverage, puts some zip on it and puts it in a safe place where only his guy can get it.

 

p31. 7 yard comeback on the outside, easy throw and catch

p32. RO, Jayden keeps it, hurdles a guy and gets a 30 yd gain. Rg3 calls jd5 Lamar, and said they both have the same type of acceleration.

p33. Rolls right to avoid a free rusher, throws 30 yd Td in air, while rolling at a jog pace to his right. Guy was open, blown coverage, but still a great play to avoid the rusher and to cap off game wining drive.

 

At 5 minutes left in the second quarter, JD5 completely took over. He played amazing, and his team needed it because the LSU d couldn’t stop mizzu from scoring. He put the team on his back, while suffering from banged up ribs, he showed tuffness, resilience, his great passing ability, and great running ability. And beat an upper echelon, undefeated, top 25, sec team on the road in a very hostile environment. He willed his team to victory. Literally one of the best qb performances I’ve ever seen in a game if you include all the factors.

 

 

Edited March 17 by mac8887