The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CapsSkins]

I could see the Raiders or Falcons trading with the Chargers to move up to 5 overall and draft QB4 assuming Caleb/Maye/Daniels are all off the board by then.  

[ThatNFLChick]

1 hour ago, Dah-Dee said:

FWIW (hint: NOTHING), I feel like the All-22 vid on Daniels (set aside an hour gah) was good stuff. Makes me reconsider my Maye leaning lol. Quick, somebody gimme the link to his All-22.

 

 

I have been complaining about this for weeks. The only All 22 right now that is widely available for Jayden Daniels games are Alabama, FSU and Florida. So thats why you keep seeing the same games broken down over and over and over again.

 

There are full games on YT (it's tv view though)

 

Vs Mississippi State

 

Vs Mizzou

 

Vs Ole Miss

 

Vs Auburn

 

Vs Texas A&M

 

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I love that our offensive staff has either coached or were around the following QBs at some point in their careers:

• Patrick Mahomes (Kingsbury)

• Aaron Rodgers (David Raih)

• Ben Roethlisberger (Bobby Engram)

• Josh Allen (Bobby Johnson)

• Andrew Luck (Pritchard - though he was a defensive assistant at the time)

• Lamar Jackson (Bobby Engram)

• Justin Herbert (Anthony Lynn)

• Dak Prescott (Brian Johnson)

• Jared Goff (Anthony Lynn)

• Jalen Hurts (Brian Johnson)

• Kyler Murray (Kingsbury)

• Baker Mayfield (Kingsbury & David Raih)

 

They were close enough to see how these QBs operated on a daily basis.  The level of first-hand experience these guys can share on what it takes to be an good-to-great QB in this league (level of work ethic, film study, training, preparation, etc.) is invaluable for a young QB.

Asst. QB coach just retired at 27 (Vet). You see the list above, why do we need to bring in a Vet? We have teachers that are going to help all the Qb's. It almost feels like the people that want Howell gone are worried about Howell beating their pick out or looking over their picks shoulder? He is on a rookie contract for 2 more years and maybe longer who knows, why trade him?  Draft another QB later too if they like one? 

[ThatNFLChick]

3 hours ago, DogofWar1 said:

 

 

Now that I have watched this through, this is UGLY. There are wow throws but man there is so much bad. It makes Caleb seem real real raw, like he needs to sit for a season, maybe two. He doesn't read the field at all, missing receivers, running into sacks, bad footwork on routine plays.

 

I can watch film and tape all day but breakdowns like this are super helpful. Its just one game but it also just kind reaffirms my belief that Williams has massive bust potential. Chicago is really going to have to coach him up. 

Edited February 22 by ThatNFLChick

[CapsSkins]

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Now that I have watched this through, this is UGLY. There are wow throws but man there is so much bad. It makes Caleb seem real real raw, like he needs to sit for a season, maybe two. He doesn't read the field at all, missing receivers, running into sacks, bad footwork on routine plays.

 

I can watch film and tape all day but breakdowns like this are super helpful. Its just one game but it also just kind reaffirms my belief that Williams has massive bust potential. Chicago is really going to have to coach him up. 

 

Between the staff being on the hot seat and all the hoopla around Fields, Chicago really does not seem like a great landing spot for Caleb. At least they have DJ Moore and Cole Kmet. But he really needs to play well starting day 1 and he's got the ascendant Lions and Jordan Love's Packers to deal with in the division.

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Pretty good chance he played baseball as a kid. His bro played at Florida and he comes from a family of athletes. 

This is a huge point....Mahomes is a product of a professional baseball player. If he played baseball as a kid then he can slide. 

[skinsfan66]

3 hours ago, BayouBrave86 said:

Myself and a couple of others have responded with stats and videos in this thread. Do some research before making baseless claims. 

Is that a mod bullying a poster?

 

belonging to or associated with the people or things previously mentioned or easily identified

And Lamar was outside the top 10 in passing yards and passing tds

 

also if you want to use one year wonder on Jayden, aren’t you a little concerned that Maye and Caleb regressed this season? They’re trending down while Jayden is trending up. Jayden also played much better competition, sort of like that Joe Burrow guy. 

Lamar was most likely outside the 10 this year in passing too, less than 4,000 yds. But he won MVP for the second time.  The Ravens will walk through a fire with him, the Def. too, they played and beat everybody but K.C.  Mahomes numbers were down too this year but he got another ring. Just wasting time with the numbers game. They are going to pick who they think has what they need at QB. 

[The Consigliere]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:56 PM, DogofWar1 said:

 

I mean, in fairness, the teams picking 1-3 tend to not be very good and are drafting a QB out of desperate need.  It being the norm that QBs start year 1 doesn't make it the optimal choice.

 

Mahomes sat pretty much the first whole season, Jackson sat roughly half of one, Allen sat for like 5 games, Goff sat for half a season, Tua came in week 6.

 

Ultimately, you want them to come in ready, and not push them out the gate too early.  If Maye/Daniels are looking ready for prime time immediately, run em, but the CJ Stroud's of the world are pretty few and far between.

I don't think there's much recent evidence that it really matters all that much at all whether you sit or not. There are guys who did like Brady, Rodgers, Mahomes, some of the true greats, and there are guys who've played primarily right off the bat like Stroud, Lawrence, Burrow, Kyler, Luck yada yada, going back to Peyton talking about how sitting was pointless compared to real game experience for learning.

 

Honestly I think it's an individual thing, depending upon QB needs and where they are in their own development, but I think the added nuance of the outsized value of a QB on a rookie contract is undeniable. Otoh, we aren't contending for squat next year, so how much does it matter? If we sat him for a month let Howell play (ramp up his trade value), then started him in October or whatever. I don't have a problem sitting him for a bit, but I also don't think there's much evidence that that consistently helps either. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesnt. 

[skinsfan66]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

This is a huge point....Mahomes is a product of a professional baseball player. If he played baseball as a kid then he can slide. 

Been making that point since Robert3. Mahomes is different because he was allowed to use his baseball talents. Side vision, arm angles, sliding...Guessed Daniels never played baseball when he was a kid. 

[ThatNFLChick]

20 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Between the staff being on the hot seat and all the hoopla around Fields, Chicago really does not seem like a great landing spot for Caleb. At least they have DJ Moore and Cole Kmet. But he really needs to play well starting day 1 and he's got the ascendant Lions and Jordan Love's Packers to deal with in the division.

 

I think they are definitely in danger of having a divided locker room. A lot of those players have been rallying hard for Fields. Williams is going to have to work a little harder than most will to win over that locker room. I mean, if I was a QB I would rather go to the NFC than the AFC though where you have to go through Allen, Mahomes and Jackson eventually. 

[The Consigliere]

 

 

 

[Destino]

Caleb is amazing at buying time and he’s a fast twitch guy that’s hard to get ahold of. The NFL is 90% on schedule though, and being late doesn’t tend to work out to well against good defenses. He can throw hard hanging upside down from the rafters, and fairly accurate too. It’s pretty crazy to watch him do it. He’s crazy talented but his much talked about patience might not be entirely a positive thing at the next level. On physical gifts alone I don’t see the bears passing him up but I’m not sure hes the perfect prospect people are pretending he is.

 

Daniels is fast as greased lightning and thin. A troubling combination. Faster than he is quick, and not terribly shifty. Not as likely to run into incoming traffic as RG3 but more towards that side of the field than the shiftier stars we’ve seen. He’s got a deep ball that floats a bit more than I’d like but he’s accurate as hell with it. He’s better at finding and hitting open receivers than he is anticipating guys that are about to come open. Main concern with him other than the small frame, is that he seems run when he doesn’t need to. Not sure if he’s seeing the play develop in his head as much as simply seeing what he’s looking at. 

 

Maye should be better than he is. He has all the tools but for some reason he just doesn’t seem to dominate. A team with a great offensive coordinator and OLine can probably win a lot of games with this guy. He gets the ball out quickly and has the height to see it all. Without those things I think he’s going to turnover the ball a lot. He tries to force the issue in a crowd and that gets him in trouble. He’s going to be in a crowd a lot behind a bad line in the NFL, that’s just the way the game goes. 

if I was the commanders head coach picking 2nd I’d take Maye. He’s the guy most likely to do what he’s asked and doesn’t need the offense designed for him like Daniels will. I think he’d benefit from sitting a season and waiting until the OLine and new offense situation have stabilized. 

 

[clskinsfan]

32 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

 

UNC also led the NCAA in drops. Maye got no help at all. 

[RandyHolt]

9 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

It just creates kind of a strange dynamic. On top of that, I don't think it makes sense for the backup to be just as much if not more of a developmental project than the starter. You want an established experienced veteran that can be a guiding hand.

 

That established vet failed at which he is providing guidance in doing. I know a vet QB & no other competition for the kid is the proven way that things have been done in the NFL for decades. Decades of QB failures, one after another. 

 

I think having a young #2 or #3 can be a gold mine. Why wait for 1 guy to fail to start the search for the next try? Give me competition not complacency and the job handed to the kid. Last time we did it (Shanahan doing it out of spite) worked out pretty darn good RG3 injuries aside.

Edited February 22 by RandyHolt

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Between the staff being on the hot seat and all the hoopla around Fields, Chicago really does not seem like a great landing spot for Caleb. At least they have DJ Moore and Cole Kmet. But he really needs to play well starting day 1 and he's got the ascendant Lions and Jordan Love's Packers to deal with in the division.

It comes down to the staff and expectations going into the season. I agree it's not the ideal landing spot, and the only ideal spots are teams not in the top 10. That's why the KC and Baltimore situations were perfect; they had an existing stable/winning culture that allowed their young QBs to develop in a purposeful way. What happened with the Texans and CJ this year was an anomaly, I think.      

[The Consigliere]

On 2/19/2024 at 2:40 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Interesting, I didn't realize people have Caleb ahead of Lawrence, I would have figured Lawrence #1, Caleb #2, Bryce Young at 5 since '12 seems a touch weird, I tend to think Tua pre injury was ahead of Young, but maybe that's part of it. Mahomes was never rated as highly as people like to imagine today, but he also wasn't as low as some suggest, I don't remember anyone thinking he would last into round 2 or 3 like he mentioned recently. 

[CapsSkins]

5 minutes ago, NOLA2DC said:

It comes down to the staff and expectations going into the season. I agree it's not the ideal landing spot, and the only ideal spots are teams not in the top 10. That's why the KC and Baltimore situations were perfect; they had an existing stable/winning culture that allowed their young QBs to develop in a purposeful way. What happened with the Texans and CJ this year was an anomaly, I think.      

 

Homerism aside, I think Washington would be a better landing spot considering the new staff & energy around the organizational reset. The irony is Chicago themselves were barely in the top 10 pick wise, the only reason they're at 1 overall of course is Carolina's horrendous season.

[The Consigliere]

On 2/19/2024 at 3:37 PM, Rufus T Firefly said:

My though is I'd ask for less now but ask for a conditional pick in two years. If he does almost nothing, it'd be a 7th, but if he played a lot and really played well it would go a lot higher. 

Sounds like my Fields idea a bit, if we hadn't ended up with a top 3 pick, and were stuck looking at a rookie or Fields and went with Fields, I'd want the '25 pick to be conditional on QBR with a minimum # of starts (like 10 games). So for instance, if Howell produces a top 16 QBR in 4+ starts, give me a '25 or '26 3rd, if he produces a 24th or worse QB, you can just give me a sixth in '25 or '26. Something like that. 

 

Give yourself some safety. I'm not gonna deal him for a 4th alone because lets be straight here, he's pretty easily the best QB from the '22 class which includes multiple guys taken in the top 60ish and two that went like top 35, and he's WAY better than both of them. I'm not gonna be fine with, we'll give you what you paid, because lets be straight, he was a straight up steal for a 5th and I still think he's probably a 15th-20th starter in this league, and I think the Jets could plug him in and he'd be a top 15 QBR guy period in '24 with the offensive talent they have. He's good enough to do that, and I want more than a freaking 4th or 5th for that. If it needs to be conditional, fine, I can live with that, but I like Howell and am fine with keeping him. QB's get hurt all the time. Last year alone, off the top of my head:

Danny Nickels

2 or 3 Vikes guys

Derek Carr

Purdy

Kyler

Rodgers

Tua I think

Both Steelers guys

Burrow

Watson

Levis

Tannehill

Richardson

Stroud

Garop

Herbert

 

That's a lot of QB's going down. We might need Howell, and teams could definitely be a bit more urgent about wanting him, come next october. 

Edited February 22 by The Consigliere

[Destino]

37 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Highlights like these do not impress me for QBs. It’s damned impressive for big recoevers showing off their speed, but Daniels is staring at his receiver and doesn’t throw it until his target runs by his man. All from a perfect pocket.

[bh32]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Highlights like these do not impress me for QBs. It’s damned impressive for big recoevers showing off their speed, but Daniels is staring at his receiver and doesn’t throw it until his target runs by his man. All from a perfect pocket.

You done messed up now...how dare you criticize Daniels..lol

[NOLA2DC]

1 hour ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Homerism aside, I think Washington would be a better landing spot considering the new staff & energy around the organizational reset. The irony is Chicago themselves were barely in the top 10 pick wise, the only reason they're at 1 overall of course is Carolina's horrendous season.

I get what you're saying, but I think you have managed expectations for the new faces in all the key positions (ownership, GM, coach, and a rook QB). That's a significant transition. What would be your realistic 1st-year record? 

[Destino]

6 minutes ago, bh32 said:

You done messed up now...how dare you criticize Daniels..lol

I had a good run. 

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, NOLA2DC said:

I get what you're saying, but I think you have managed expectations for the new faces in all the key positions (ownership, GM, coach, and a rook QB). That's a significant transition. What would be your realistic 1st-year record? 

 

I'd be happy with 6-7 wins, but the win total in Year 1 is a little less important to me than 1) the QB's performance/potential, 2) play-style, and 3) general culture around the team. Dan Campbell's Lions went 3-13-1 in his first year in 2021 and started off 0-10-1, but clearly they were building the foundation of something promising. That's the most important part IMO.

[The Consigliere]

On 2/20/2024 at 8:37 AM, ThatNFLChick said:

This take is def becoming the norm. Daniel Jeremiah put out a mock draft and basically said the only reason he has the Pats staying put is because he's not doing mocks with trades right now 

 

 

Oh I know. He had a good game before he had to leave, I would just love breakdowns of other games too

 

It's a really stupid take. The '25 class is blech, and the patriots defense is too good, if they go after stop gap help they can paper away faults to 5 to 7 wins pretty easily, maybe 8, and no shot at a QB in '26 when the classes might get better or '25 if they're desperate. It's just dumb. They are here, right here, right now. Pull the trigger. The only reason they have to trade down is if they have a different QB higher than Daniels and Maye on their board. If so, fine, trade down, but otherwise, pull the trigger. It's a bird in the hand. The simplest of decision making.