The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[HTTRDynasty]

21 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

LMAO

 

Speaking of people getting timelines wrong. Bill wasn't head coach until 2000. Drew Bledsoe was a multiple time PB and comeback player of the year in his career and QB of a SB team before Brady or Bill. He played in an era where throwing for 4400 yards meant something. He was over 80 qbr multiple times and has 24 comebacks and 31 game winning drives. 

 

He was definitely not a great QB but maybe you shouldn't have dropped a bad sequence of your own before moving on to clowning someone else.

 

Edit: No point in escalating this. 

 

Edited February 17 by HTTRDynasty

[FrFan]

2 hours ago, ThatNFLChick said:

Colin Cowherd thinks we take Maye and win the division 

 

He picked the Panthers as his surprise team in 2023 ! I don't know his credibility about draft picks evaluation though.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

Edited February 17 by HTTRDynasty

[FootballZombie]

26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

The same case for questioning super bad reviews applies for super good as well.

If your gonna shatter general understanding, you better have a name behind it.

 

If you like a guy better than another, cool.

If you think a dude is the best you ever evaluated when the majority of the establishment does not have him QB1 in his own draft... I'm pulling credentials.

 

This dude gave Caleb Williams a C- in pocket awareness. *hits with newspaper* Bad review guy! Very bad! Go sit in the corner!

 

 

And this is coming from a dude who has Caleb, Drake and Jayden all roughly graded out the same so I don't think its crazy for peeps to rate Maye over Williams.

Edited February 17 by FootballZombie

[HTTRDynasty]

6 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

The same case for questioning super bad reviews applies for super good as well.

If your gonna shatter general understanding, you better have a name behind it.

 

If you like a guy better than another, cool.

If you think a dude is the best you ever evaluated when the majority of the establishment does not have him QB1 in his own draft... I'm pulling credentials.

 

This dude gave Caleb Williams a C- in pocket awareness. *hits with newspaper* Bad review guy! Very bad! Go sit in the corner!

 

 

And this is coming from a dude who has Caleb, Drake and Jayden all roughly graded out the same so I don't think its crazy for peeps to rate Maye over Williams.

 

Not saying I agree, but he answers that here:

 

 

[gooseneck]

A question.  Before I became an attorney, I worked on a firefighting, hotshot crew for 7 years.  I found individuals with Daniel's body type, thin and muscular, were less inclined to get injured.  Is there any data on this?  clearly thin and weak get injured easily, however, so does heavy and weak.  Some pluses on Maye below.

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

15 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

Let's look at their last college seasons when both exploded:

• He doesn't have an injury history
• He's taller than RG3
• He has more passing TDs than RG3
• He has a higher QBR than RG3
• He threw less INTs
• He ran for 400 more yards than RG3
• He had more rushing touchdown than RG3
• He didn't play in a gimmicky offense

 

 

Edited February 17 by ThatNFLChick

[Anselmheifer]

10 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Let's look at their last college seasons when both exploded:

• He doesn't have an injury history
• He's taller than RG3
• He has more passing TDs than RG3
• He has a higher QBR than RG3
• He threw less INTs
• He ran for 400 more yards than RG3
• He had more rushing touchdown than RG3
• He didn't play in a gimmicky offense

 

 

I like Daniel’s. RG3 had a much, much better arm. That has to be a serious difference in their evaluations. 
 

And, a lot of people hate of RG3 and the trade that brought him here. It looked like a no brainer, slam dunk success, until the injuries. 

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Let's look at their last college seasons when both exploded:

• He doesn't have an injury history
• He's taller than RG3
• He has more passing TDs than RG3
• He has a higher QBR than RG3
• He threw less INTs
• He ran for 400 more yards than RG3
• He had more rushing touchdown than RG3

 

Your intense focus on the final season to the exclusion of all else when it comes to Daniels is hilarious but expected at this point.  Let's take a look at the other side:

• Better overall frame / build
• 1.1 years younger than Daniels as a prospect
• Stronger arm
• Faster
• Higher career passer rating
• Higher career completion percentage
• More career TDs per Attempts (to normalize for the abnormally long time Daniels spent in college)
• Higher career TD / INT ratio
• Much higher career Rushing TDs per Rushing Attempts ratio

I agree with your point about injury history (which is largely driven by luck), but that's about it.  I don't care that Daniels is taller given he's skinny as a toothpick and has massive concerns regarding his frame.

 

As prospects, it was RGIII vs. Luck (a much better prospect than Williams) and RGIII had many placing him as QB1 with most having him as QB2.  Daniels is fighting to be QB2 at best, with most having him as QB3.

 

And looking ahead (which has nothing to do with them as prospects, I know), I really doubt Daniels wins Offensive Rookie of the Year as RGIII did.

[ThatNFLChick]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Your intense focus on the final season to the exclusion of all else when it comes to Daniels is hilarious but expected at this point.  Let's take a look at the other side:

• Better overall frame / build
• 1.1 years younger than Daniels as a prospect
• Stronger arm
• Faster
• Higher career passer rating
• Higher career completion percentage
• More career TDs per Attempts (to normalize for the abnormally long time Daniels spent in college)
• Higher career TD / INT ratio
• Much higher career Rushing TDs per Rushing Attempts ratio

I agree with your point about injury history (which is largely driven by luck), but that's about it.  I don't care that Daniels is taller given he's skinny as a toothpick and has massive concerns regarding his frame.

 

As prospects, it was RGIII vs. Luck (a much better prospect than Williams) and RGIII had many placing him as QB1 with most having him as QB2.  Daniels is fighting to be QB2 at best, with most having him as QB3.

 

And looking ahead (which has nothing to do with them as prospects, I know), I really doubt Daniels wins Offensive Rookie of the Year as RGIII did.

 

Obviously its different if careers are compared. 

 

But thats like saying RG3 was a better prospect than Burrow. I mean, if you believe that to each their own. 

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Obviously its different if careers are compared. 

 

But thats like saying RG3 was a better prospect than Burrow. I mean, if you believe that to each their own. 

You’re using hindsight. I’m not sure that the scouting community wouldn’t have considered RG3 to be comparable to Burrow. He was considered by some to be better than Luck, who was as good or a better prospect than Burrow. 
 

Again, none of this is my evaluation. It’s the draft community perceived things. 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Obviously its different if careers are compared. 

 

But thats like saying RG3 was a better prospect than Burrow. I mean, if you believe that to each their own. 

 

It would be great if you stopped using Burrow as a way to prop up Daniels.  Burrow only played 2 years of college ball as a starter.  Daniels played 4.  Therefore, we have a much larger sample size with which to base our evaluation on when it comes to Daniels than we do Burrow.  If you can't see the difference, there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

And regardless, Burrow has a much higher career passer rating (172.4) than Daniels does (158.4) and led his team to a national championship.

[ThatNFLChick]

9 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

You’re using hindsight. I’m not sure that the scouting community wouldn’t have considered RG3 to be comparable to Burrow. He was considered by some to be better than Luck, who was as good or a better prospect than Burrow. 
 

Again, none of this is my evaluation. It’s the draft community perceived things. 

 

Luck was a signifcantly better prospect than RG3 and Burrow. Significantly (and I love Burrow). I was not an RG3 fan in college and I wanted Luck badly. 

 

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

It would be great if you stopped using Burrow as a way to prop up Daniels.  Burrow only played 2 years of college ball as a starter.  Daniels played 4.  Therefore, we have a much larger sample size with which to base our evaluation on when it comes to Daniels than we do Burrow.  If you can't see the difference, there's nothing I can do to help you.

 

And regardless, Burrow has a much higher career passer rating (172.4) than Daniels does (158.4) and led his team to a national championship.

 

No. I will keep using Burrow. Whatever excuse is made Burrow was drafted where he was because of his growth and evolution and his final season of ball. He wasn't seen as draftable before his final season. 

 

But as someone reminded me, Peters knows Daniels very well since Peters drafted Aiyuk and the person that was throwing to him in his best college season was Daniels so I trust that Peters will evaluate him the best way he sees fit and look at his growth ans evolution since then. 

Edited February 17 by ThatNFLChick

[RWJ]

5 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Luck was a signifcantly better prospect than RG3 and Burrow. Significantly (and I love Burrow)

 

 

No. I will keep using Burrow. Whatever excuse is made Burrow was drafted where he was because of his growth and evolution. He wasn't seen as draftable before his final season. 

 

But as someone reminded me, Peters knows Daniels very well since Peters drafted Aiyuk and the person that was throwing to him in his best college season was Daniels. 

Peters knows the current entire FO staff and scouts he just left and didn't bring one of them over from SF.  I could be wrong and if I am, my apologies.  

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

No. I will keep using Burrow. Whatever excuse is made Burrow was drafted where he was because of his growth and evolution. He wasn't seen as draftable before his final season. 

 

False.

 

One evaluator said Burrow entered the season as a likely third- or fourth-round pick, the kind of choice a franchise hopes would yield a stalwart backup. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/14/joe-burrow-nfl-draft/)

 

 

And Burrow's "growth and evolution" was from Year 1 as a starter to Year 2. 

 

Not from Year 4 to Year 5.

[ThatNFLChick]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Peters knows the current entire FO staff and scouts he just left and didn't bring one of them over from SF.  I could be wrong and if I am, my apologies.  

 

I don't know what this means. Are you implying that the 49ers have a bad roster or scouting department? Because not a soul would agree with that. 

 

And also he drafted Aiyuk after he exploded in 2019. He wasn't seen as a high draft pick prior to that. 

Edited February 17 by ThatNFLChick

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

I don't know what this means. Are you implying that the 49ers have a bad roster or scouting department? Because not a soul would agree with that. 

 

And also he drafted Aiyuk after he exploded in 2019. He wasn't seen as a high draft pick prior to that. 

I was referring to this in your post about 18 minutes ago:  "But as someone reminded me, Peters knows Daniels very well since Peters drafted Aiyuk and the person that was throwing to him in his best college season was Daniels so I trust that Peters will evaluate him the best way he sees fit and look at his growth ans evolution since then.?

 

It doesn't matter who Peters know.   It's who Peters wants to draft.  

Edited February 17 by RWJ

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

I was referring to this in your post about 18 minutes ago:  "But as someone reminded me, Peters knows Daniels very well since Peters drafted Aiyuk and the person that was throwing to him in his best college season was Daniels so I trust that Peters will evaluate him the best way he sees fit and look at his growth ans evolution since then.?

 

It doesn't matter who Peters know.   It's who Peters wants to draft.  

 

So again thats why I said "I trust that Peters will evaluate him the best way he sees fit"

 

[88Comrade2000]

This draft isn’t a one qb draft. If it was, Washington and New England would be looking to trade down.

 

Trading so many picks for one player more often than not, doesn’t work.

 

Frankly, there are red flags about Caleb Williams.  Spending multiple picks to get him isn’t worth it. If the Bears decide to trade out, let someone else make that mistake.  
 

If Caleb isn’t taken at one and is available at two, then fine. 
 

We got to many holes to be trading it up for a qb, especially in a draft with multiple options at qb.

[ThatNFLChick]

9 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

This draft isn’t a one qb draft. If it was, Washington and New England would be looking to trade down.

 

Trading so many picks for one player more often than not, doesn’t work.

 

Frankly, there are red flags about Caleb Williams.  Spending multiple picks to get him isn’t worth it. If the Bears decide to trade out, let someone else make that mistake.  
 

If Caleb isn’t taken at one and is available at two, then fine. 
 

We got to many holes to be trading it up for a qb, especially in a draft with multiple options at qb.

 

I am 100% against trading up too. I think Caleb is good and he's #1 for me but he's not generational IMO. His last season concerns me, his fumbles, the system he played in, plus his mental makeup. I just think with all those questions trading up isn't worth it. 

 

I like him more than Lawrence as a prospect but significantly less than Burrow, Luck and even Stroud tbh. 

[88Comrade2000]

Speaking of qbs, who’s the Brock Purdy of the draft? I can see Adam spending the  7th round pick on another qb, if Adam thinks there’s another qb worth drafting.

 

I would love to do what the Packers did under Farve, where many of his backups were traded for picks.  We actually traded for a one time Farve backup when he was with Jacksonville- Mark Brunnell.

[Anselmheifer]

i agree with the posters saying that both Maye and Daniels could wind up being great and that its not necessarily that  if you pick one and not the other that you’re going to, “miss”. 
 

I feel like people aren’t bringing up something that I think could be possible. If New England prefers Maye and we prefer Daniels, we might be able to move down just one spot while adding significant assets. 
 

I think I’d rather just stay at 2 and take Maye, but for those that want Daniels, I think that is the dream scenario. 

[NOLA2DC]

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I laugh because I don't think this changes how it plays out, and I'm not saying this because I think I'm a draft expert. The guy that touted like Caleb almost always goes first. To my knowledge, the consensus guy(Peyton, Andrew, Trevor) always goes first. This is not a Daniels vs. Maye thing, just a commentary on how people come up with these curious takes about the true #1 every year. Yes, some evaluators do make these statements, like a couple did last year with CJ, but it doesn't change the draft order.    

[ddyork]

4 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I like Daniel’s. RG3 had a much, much better arm. That has to be a serious difference in their evaluations. 
 

And, a lot of people hate of RG3 and the trade that brought him here. It looked like a no brainer, slam dunk success, until the injuries. 

RGme wasn't all that accurate.  Kirk Cousins was a better passer...  2 things hurt RGMe...  In college, didn't play in a pro style offense.  Had a tendacy to take linebackers head on...