The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[illone]

Id take Howell over Allen all things considered.

 

Id love to watch the metaverse movie where Allen is the QB and fans of the team throw things at the TV when he throws multiple picks in the same game.

 

Allen is basically Brett Favre at this point.  Big plays but lots of turnovers.

[srtman04]

If our defense was even remotely good like they should have been as advertised,  this team would be 8-2 or 7-3 right now.   Yes I blame all of those losses on the defense because if we held each of these games to under 20 points,  we'd have won them.  That tells me,  Howell is better than average and he has the potential to be a super star paired with the right defense and upgraded O-line.  

Edited November 17, 2023 by srtman04

[woodpecker]

7 minutes ago, illone said:

Id take Howell over Allen all things considered.

 

Id love to watch the metaverse movie where Allen is the QB and fans of the team throw things at the TV when he throws multiple picks in the same game.

 

Allen is basically Brett Favre at this point.  Big plays but lots of turnovers.

So you’re comparing Josh Allen to Hall of Famer Brett Favre, but you’d still rather have Sam? Are you telling me if they offered Allen for Sam straight up you’d say no??? This thread is hilarious.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

Id take Howell over Allen all things considered.

 

Id love to watch the metaverse movie where Allen is the QB and fans of the team throw things at the TV when he throws multiple picks in the same game.

 

Allen is basically Brett Favre at this point.  Big plays but lots of turnovers.

Josh Allen is basically a HOF QB. 
 

I’d say he probably needs a SB first but I agree 

5 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

So you’re comparing Josh Allen to Hall of Famer Brett Favre, but you’d still rather have Sam? Are you telling me if they offered Allen for Sam straight up you’d say no??? This thread is hilarious.

I think there’s a disconnect. Maybe they’re talking about this guy 

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you wanna argue that you'd rather have Howell over Allen for a rebuilding team because of the age and contract then I can understand that argument, but in a vacuum there is not one coach or GM that would take Howell over Allen, that's just absurd.

 

But decisions are not made in a vacuum if you are a good GM with foresight. 

 

Let's assume Howell and Allen were in the same draft class and if you had to pick one to be on your team who would you have picked just based on stats? Would you have still gone for Allen because he is 4 inches taller and the typical prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants? Or would there be other factors as well?

[illone]

4 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

So you’re comparing Josh Allen to Hall of Famer Brett Favre, but you’d still rather have Sam? Are you telling me if they offered Allen for Sam straight up you’d say no??? This thread is hilarious.

 

Sure would.  Contract is probably the biggest reason, but I also view Sam as having a higher ceiling than Allen.  We pretty much know who Allen is. Sam is unknown, but I like what I see and wouldnt consider paying the extra $39 million per year, that doesn't seem like a good value in my mind.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

But decisions are not made in a vacuum if you are a good GM with foresight. 

 

Let's assume Howell and Allen were in the same draft class and if you had to pick one to be on your team who would you have picked just based on stats? Would you have still gone for Allen because he is 4 inches taller and the typical prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants? Or would there be other factors as well?

Yes lol. 
 

Im taking 2018 Josh Allen 10/10 over 2023 Sam Howell. Josh Allen struggled with accuracy in college and early in his career but his size and playmaking ability was always apparent. 

6 minutes ago, illone said:

 

We pretty much know who Allen is

A top 5 Qb????? 
 

The literal holy grail in the modern NFL. The guy that was one drive away from the SB??? Literally toe to toe with Patrick Mahomes. Finished top 3 in MVP voting TWICE

 

Are you trolling? You feel confident enough that Sam would get to that level???

Edited November 17, 2023 by BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, illone said:

Id take Howell over Allen all things considered.

 

Id love to watch the metaverse movie where Allen is the QB and fans of the team throw things at the TV when he throws multiple picks in the same game.

 

Allen is basically Brett Favre at this point.  Big plays but lots of turnovers.

I really like Howell, but you’d be in a small minority on this. Allen might be having a so so season, but he’s one of the elite. We hope Sam gets into that conversation at some point!

[philibusters]

Josh Allen has had two bad games this year.  Other than those two games, he has been really good.  He is just having an unlucky season in terms of turnovers.  Yes his interceptions are up, but his turnover worthy plays are down.  He has 11 interceptions and only 10 turnover worthy plays according to PFF.  Last year he had 14 interceptions on 29 turnover worthy plays and the year before 15 interceptions on 26 turnover worthy.    Interceptions vs. turnover worthy plays are a bit like sacks and pressures.  Overall pressures are a more predictive stat than sacks.  For example, Daron Payne had 11.5 sacks last year, but if you just looked at his pressures you would have predicted 7 sacks or so.  The previous couple years he had got 4.5 and 3 sacks though both years if you looked at the total pressures amount you would have predicted he would have got an additional two sacks.  After last years 11.5 sack season, this year he is at one.

 

Likewise, Allen is probably actually doing slightly better at protecting the football this year, he is just having bad turnover luck.  If he throws in coverage its getting picked almost every time.  Over time if he continues to take care of the ball better those numbers will go down.

[MartinC]

4 hours ago, Conn said:

Randomly being right sometimes on some things does not make you any more credible on other things at other times. 

Are you sure? I’ve based a whole career on this!

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

The narrative is that Josh Allen was awful his rookie year. He definitely struggled as a passer but he still had a higher QBR than Sam does in 2023 lol. 
 

He also had 600+ yards rushing and 8 TDs on the ground lol. 

[illone]

11 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

The literal holy grail in the modern NFL. The guy that was one drive away from the SB??? Literally toe to toe with Patrick Mahomes. Finished top 3 in MVP voting TWICE

 

Are you trolling? You feel confident enough that Sam would get to that level???

 

 

I think Sam can get to that level, sure. 

 

Buffalo was one drive from the SB for more reasons than just Allen.  That defense is pretty darn good, or at least it was when Milano, Jones and White were healthy.

 

Let's see what happens over the next five years and then we can bump this thread and hand out trophies to everyone that was right 🤣

 

 

 

[MartinC]

Just now, illone said:

 

 

I think Sam can get to that level, sure. 

 

Buffalo was one drive from the SB for more reasons than just Allen.  That defense is pretty darn good, or at least it was when Milano, Jones and White were healthy.

 

Let's see what happens over the next five years and then we can bump this thread and hand out trophies to everyone that was right 🤣

 

 

 

Hey I’d LOVE you to be right. 

[zCommander]

22 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Yes lol. 
 

Im taking 2018 Josh Allen 10/10 over 2023 Sam Howell. Josh Allen struggled with accuracy in college and early in his career but his size and playmaking ability was always apparent. 

 

That's fair. 

 

I also like Howell's playmaking abilities too. The cool as a cucumber attitude he posses and has a short memory and when he led us to tie in that Eagles game and knowing how many seconds were left on the clock and the surgical throws. Even some of the vets fail at that. As a semi-rookie that is damn good in my book. Other QB who have done really well in the NFL, not being so tall, Brees, Wilson and Hurts, to name a few, but Murray and Young are only 5'10", that I think is a tad bit smallish though. Still I don't get too hung up on size but like to see what a QB can do is more important than their height. 

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by zCommander

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Just now, illone said:

 

 

I think Sam can get to that level, sure. 

 

Buffalo was one drive from the SB for more reasons than just Allen.  That defense is pretty darn good, or at least it was when Milano, Jones and White were healthy.

 

Let's see what happens over the next five years and then we can bump this thread and hand out trophies to everyone that was right 🤣

 

 

 

The final score of that game was 42-36 lol.

 

For all of our sakes, I hope you are so right and I look like the biggest idiot. Truly do. 

[Conn]

22 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

But decisions are not made in a vacuum if you are a good GM with foresight. 

 

Let's assume Howell and Allen were in the same draft class and if you had to pick one to be on your team who would you have picked just based on stats? Would you have still gone for Allen because he is 4 inches taller and the typical prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants? Or would there be other factors as well?

? We don’t have to play this game, one of them was drafted 7th overall and the other fell to the 5th round. That’s not the end of their stories, but anyone saying anyone with a clue would draft Howell over Allen is obviously wrong.
 

I don’t really understand why you’re going back to their college stats to compare them to each other when they’re both professionals. That already played out in their respective drafts. 

[zCommander]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

? We don’t have to play this game, one of them was drafted 7th overall and the other fell to the 5th round. That’s not the end of their stories, but anyone saying anyone with a clue would draft Howell over Allen is obviously wrong.
 

I don’t really understand why you’re going back to their college stats to compare them to each other when they’re both professionals. That already played out in their respective drafts. 

 

What if, we didn't trade for Wentz and selected Howell instead of Dotson? Would that have changed the narrative then? 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I’m quite pleased with Sam, but over Josh Allen? Please. That’s not even a conversation at this point.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

That's fair. 

 

I also like Howell's playmaking abilities too. The cool as a cucumber attitude he posses and has a short memory and when he led us to tie in that Eagles game and knowing how many seconds were left on the clock and the surgical throws. Even some of the vets fail at that. As a semi-rookie that is damn good in my book. Other QB who have done really well in the NFL, not being so tall, Brees, Wilson and Hurts, to name a few, but Murray and Young are only 5'10", that I think is a tad bit smallish though. Still I don't get too hung up on size but like to see what a QB can do is more important than their height. 

 

This isn’t a Bills board but it’s not just the size. He’s a legit plus runner. Like legitimately. I remember arguing with ppl in 2018 that his rushing upside would give him more time to figure out the passing side and it definitely did. He was elite running the ball from day one. 
I don’t know if Sam has the ability to give you 500+ on the ground in the NFL. He lacks Allen’s size or Lamar’s speed. 
 

That’s not to say Sam can’t run. He can but I figure it’ll look more like how Trevor Lawrence and Andrew Luck had enough functional athleticism to reel off a few nice runs. 

 

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

On 11/16/2023 at 1:42 PM, Warhead36 said:

Nothing is more tiresome to watch than an offense that can only throw 3 yard dinkers and has to rely on 12+ play drives.

 

Alex Smith does not approve of this post!

[zCommander]

6 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I don’t know if Sam has the ability to give you 500+ on the ground in the NFL. He lacks Allen’s size or Lamar’s speed. 
 

That’s not to say Sam can’t run. He can but I figure it’ll look more like how Trevor Lawrence and Andrew Luck had enough functional athleticism to reel off a few nice runs. 

 

 

i can only base his running ability from college. His last year there he had 828 yards. He had to run a lot since he didn't have anyone decent to throw to and his OL sucked. He might not be a fast runner but he does goes through defenders and knocking them down while doing so. At least he is a tough runner when he has to. But, it is still safer to just throw instead, as long as you are not getting sacked. I think EB has done just a couple designed runs. I think. I don't remember and probably overshadowed by all them passes lol

[Conn]

22 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

What if, we didn't trade for Wentz and selected Howell instead of Dotson? Would that have changed the narrative then? 

If this FO had the conviction to draft Howell in the 1st round, yes the perception and narrative would probably be different. They didn’t though, they took him when they couldn’t resist any longer (and late enough that it wouldn’t hurt Wentz’s feelings). They lucked out in landing him in the 5th, but didn’t successfully use their more premium resources to build a competitive roster around him—and because of that, they won’t get to stick around and benefit from  their luck. 

 

This has nothing to do with you comparing Howell and Allen’s college stats though, idk why you’re moving the goal posts. Allen is elite. If we’re lucky, Howell will turn out to be elite. Allen was higher pedigreed for a reason and so far that has played out. 

 

Either way, both of them are past or approaching the point where their college production and draft pedigree don’t matter anymore, their NFL production does. 

[Chris 44]

5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

i can only base his running ability from college. His last year there he had 828 yards. He had to run a lot since he didn't have anyone decent to throw to and his OL sucked. He might not be a fast runner but he does goes through defenders and knocking them down while doing so. At least he is a tough runner when he has to. But, it is still safer to just throw instead, as long as you are not getting sacked. I think EB has done just a couple designed runs. I think. I don't remember and probably overshadowed by all them passes lol

Kind of surprised we haven't seen him run more near the goal line, seemed that in TC that may have been an option they were tinkering with. Maybe Im misremembering things.

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Without a doubt he didn't want to get injured in a meaningless game and be out of the NFL. Two birds with one stone. I haven't seen him play in ATL at all. No interest anymore. I do remember we had said in this thread what if TH had Wentz arm. Well we got our own hell of a lot better version of that in Howell. So I am good for now.  

 

Now I just want to see Howell with a legit OL and a decent D. 

If I was 6 inches taller and weighed 60lbs more and has skills and talent I could play power forward for the Knicks.

 

Haddock’s biggest issue is he lacks any of the physical skills needed to play QB in the NFL.

 

I haven’t watched him either.  But when he “injured his hamstring” he was 8 of 15 for 54 yards. That was in the late 3rd or 4th quarter.  
 

He managed to do the impossible: make the Falcons fan want Ridder to play.  

[zCommander]

Damn Burrow done for the season