The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

As for @wit33, I can't speak for @KDawg but I know from other exchanges with @KDawg he's all about football -- great poster, and his exchanges aren't personal.   As for this subject, I told the same to @wit33 any vitroil is directed on the subject is to Dan not @wit33.   Any sarcasm on the subject relating to Dan is directed at Dan.  

 

We all know that money talks in the NFL.  But there are plenty of situations where things are close to even and players have options.  And even people who work for the team have said they know its a hurdle to attract some players here. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Jumbo]

Dumbass posts, not Thanos, are inevitable.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Ironically KJ Wright (ex-Seahawks player) was on 106.7 and was just asked about this on Grant and Danny.  He said players do care about that stuff as for facilities and trappings.  He suggested at times things are equal enough when it comes to FA and this type of stuff would influence players decision.  And yeah if you overpay, money talks.    lol, to a tee he discussed this subject.

 

Plenty of us follow FA, and sure sometimes one team overpays for a player or a player just only has one suitor -- but plenty of players we've coveted have had multiple suitors, where the money that has been offered is similar, and they end up elsewhere.  

 

But even if I played with the theory that hey we have all the crap trappings but it doesn't matter because we will just outbid other teams.  That's so Vinny Cerrato Dan.   
Dan rarely outbids anyone so he's not offsetting the baggage with money by a long stretch.    If anything I think this team is more likely to be outbid, too.

 

The reason why I got fired up about any Dan Snyder related topic is this dude has basically destroyed this franchise.  There is zero redeeming about him.  And i get fired up about any subject relating to it including hey we can work around Dan's crap by doing this or that.  i used to think it was possible to work around Dan's crap but that ship has sailed for me long ago.  So all my anger starts pouring out when the subject is brought up. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for @wit33, I can't speak for @KDawg but I know from other exchanges with @KDawg he's all about football -- great poster, and his exchanges aren't personal.   As for this subject, I told the same to @wit33 any vitroil is directed on the subject is to Dan not @wit33.   Any sarcasm on the subject relating to Dan is directed at Dan.  

 

We all know that money talks in the NFL.  But there are plenty of situations where things are close to even and players have options.  And even people who work for the team have said they know its a hurdle to attract some players here. 

 

This is a literal list for free agents.

 

NFL Player Team Report Cards | NFLPA

 

We are dead last.

 

Yes, we may sucker... I mean... get a few quality guys to come. There are other variables that often get met by things outside of the org. (things like connections with players on the roster, relationships with coaches from prior places, etc.)

 

But the literal scope of the project from the NFLPA is:

 

Quote

DURING THE LAST TWO YEARS, THE BOARD OF REPRESENTATIVES HAS DISCUSSED WAYS TO IMPROVE THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE TO FREE AGENTS MAKING DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR PROSPECTIVE CLUBS AND DECIDED TO PURSUE THE DEVELOPMENT OF “CLUB REPORT CARDS” THAT, WHILE NOT A SCIENTIFIC SURVEY, WOULD REPORT THE QUANTITATIVE AND QUALITATIVE OPINIONS OF NFL PLAYERS ABOUT THEIR RESPECTIVE CLUBS.

 

IN CONNECTION WITH THAT GOAL, QUESTIONS WERE SENT TO EVERY PLAYER ON THE 2022 TEAM ROSTERS ASKING THEM THEIR OPINIONS ABOUT THEIR CLUB’S FACILITIES, CERTAIN CLUB PERSONNEL/COACHES, AND OTHER WORK-RELATED CATEGORIES, SUCH AS CLUB’S TREATMENT OF FAMILIES AND TEAM TRAVEL (PLAYERS WERE NOT ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT ANY CLUB OTHER THAN THEIR 2022 EMPLOYER). AS A RESULT OF THE CONFIDENTIAL QUESTIONNAIRE, 1,300 PLAYERS RESPONDED. THERE THEN WAS A QUALITATIVE FOLLOW UP BY THE UNION, WHICH RESULTED IN THE FOLLOWING “REPORT CARD.”

 

It's a survey of OUR PLAYERS. Not outside players. It's what our guys think of this franchise. Imagine what a free agent with options thinks.

 

The key to this entire conversation is the "with options" tidbit.

 

If they don't have options they will play where they can. If their options are limited they may even choose DC.

 

But anyone with any real choice is going to look at everything here.

 

Like you said, none of this is personal. I don't know any of these people. And I admire that @wit33 posts with intelligence and weight to his reasons. I often think they are flawed but obviously he thinks the same with some of my takes. It's not personal. 

 

I just have a hard time understanding why this is such a tough thing for people to embrace and say, "yeah, that stuff all makes sense."

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This is a literal list for free agents.

 

NFL Player Team Report Cards | NFLPA

 

We are dead last.

 

Yes, we may sucker... I mean... get a few quality guys to come. There are other variables that often get met by things outside of the org. (things like connections with players on the roster, relationships with coaches from prior places, etc.)

 

But the literal scope of the project from the NFLPA is:

 

 

It's a survey of OUR PLAYERS. Not outside players. It's what our guys think of this franchise. Imagine what a free agent with options thinks.

 

The key to this entire conversation is the "with options" tidbit.

 

If they don't have options they will play where they can. If their options are limited they may even choose DC.

 

But anyone with any real choice is going to look at everything here.

 

Like you said, none of this is personal. I don't know any of these people. And I admire that @wit33 posts with intelligence and weight to his reasons. I often think they are flawed but obviously he thinks the same with some of my takes. It's not personal. 

 

I just have a hard time understanding why this is such a tough thing for people to embrace and say, "yeah, that stuff all makes sense."

 

Yeah as I mentioned I just listened to an NFL player a few minutes ago saying he would care.  Logan Paulsen who works there said he knows people in that FO believe that they have a hard time getting players to come here.

 

Yes, you can overpay and get plenty of players that way.  But you can't run a team that way by just busting the cap by having overpriced FAs.  That was Dan's cheat code with Cerrato and it didn't work.  I don't think he has the money to overpay for the world anyway these days.

 

On the FA thread whenever we push for players, plenty of them have multiple suitors, this team ends up with the short end of the stick, and then lol people blame Rivera or whomever.

 

The reason why i get fired up about the point and flat out get angry when talking about it is as a fan base we deserve better than this crap.  We have not won 11 games in 30 years.  The last time we won a playoff game was in 2008.  We have the most sleazy and less classy team in the NFL.

 

And like you I live in another state, and from my experiences over the years engaging with fans of other teams -- this team has veered from being a team i was proud to support publicly to a team i feel squeamish about when explaining to others why I root for them.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

This is a literal list for free agents.

 

NFL Player Team Report Cards | NFLPA

 

We are dead last.

 

Yes, we may sucker... I mean... get a few quality guys to come. There are other variables that often get met by things outside of the org. (things like connections with players on the roster, relationships with coaches from prior places, etc.)

 

This fact can’t be ignored, players will sign in Washington. Yes, guys with options will choose to sign In Washington.
 

For example, Curtis Samuel probably signed due to Ron leveraging trust (previous relationship) and guaranteed money (guarantees until 3rd year is pretty substantial). Curtis Samuel 100% had a long list of suitors. Similar to Mckissic, my guess is he felt ties to the organization, but also knowing his role was locked in was significant. 
 

Someone may say, Ron and FO have influence, yes, I 100% agree. I believe the coach, scheme, play time opportunity/role and past season success have a great impact on whether a player signs (after the money is settled on lol). 
 

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

But the literal scope of the project from the NFLPA is:

 

 

It's a survey of OUR PLAYERS. Not outside players. It's what our guys think of this franchise. Imagine what a free agent with options thinks.

 

The key to this entire conversation is the "with options" tidbit.

No way saying Washington won’t lose out on free agents due to myriad of reasons, but so does every other organization. 
 

I’ll concede the elite QB in most years wouldn’t choose Washington, but that’s more to do with them being bad at football for many seasons. The Bucs are a dumpster organization and reeled in The GOAT because they somehow landed on a pool full of talent. 
 

If Washington wanted Carr, they’d be at the tippity top of his list. He will garner no more than 1.5 years guaranteed, that’s the marriage, it’s no longer a 10 year marriage. It’s becoming much more like the NBA superstar. If you don’t like it, leave. 

 

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

If they don't have options they will play where they can. If their options are limited they may even choose DC.

 

This is no doubt true for some, but believe this is the case for every franchise. 
 

It’s all situational and nuanced relating to the incumbent free agent. For example this upcoming free agent period, Washington for a G is a potential “destination spot”, yes, even if that player’s agent said he doesn’t like Washington anonymously. A veteran MLB or CB would salivate at the opportunity to play for Washington— dare I say a destination spot for these guys. A veteran TE would love the opportunity to compete with a potentially declining Thomas who may get cut and a bunch of other power forwards playing TE (outside of one of my favorite players— Bates). 
 

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

But anyone with any real choice is going to look at everything here.

 

Like you said, none of this is personal. I don't know any of these people. And I admire that @wit33 posts with intelligence and weight to his reasons. I often think they are flawed but obviously he thinks the same with some of my takes. It's not personal. 

 

I just have a hard time understanding why this is such a tough thing for people to embrace and say, "yeah, that stuff all makes sense."

100% man. I love spirited debates and very rarely take anything personal. You’re a beast as a poster and it’s wild the amount of years that have piled up going back and forth with a core group here. Great times! I literally stopped reading much on Washington a few years back due to preferring to get information and opinions here, you being one of them. 
 

Not saying those things make sense, but believe some take it to the extreme to drive home their hatred for Dan— cool, no problem. I will continue to observe and form opinions, hypothesize, and speculate and do my best to let my logic lead the way. 

[DJHJR86]

This is 1000% going to happen, isn't it?

 

 

[Est.1974]

I can see Dalton being brought in for sure.

[kingdaddy]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I can see Dalton being brought in for sure.

Why Dalton over Bridgewater or Brissett? 

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Why Dalton over Bridgewater or Brissett? 

Cost. Dalton will be about 3mil per year. The others will be 3 times that.

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Cost. Dalton will be about 3mil per year. The others will be 3 times that.

 

But can Dalton come in and win you 3 or 4 games in a row if the #1 QB goes down?

[Est.1974]

7 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

But can Dalton come in and win you 3 or 4 games in a row if the #1 QB goes down?

No idea. It’s Howell or bust really. I don’t see Ron thinking a 1 year 10mil deal is a good idea. Maybe he does.
 

Personally I’d just go Howell, very cheap vet, rookie.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll give some props to Grant Paulsen, changing his mind, doing a 180, after being hardcore previously with an opposite take.  Grant was in the crowd of hey Howell is a 5th round pick, enough said, the odds are too stacked against him to have much chance of a success because of where he was taken.  Same take as Sheehan and some others on the board-twitter.

 

It was triggered by Rivera going on the NFL Network today, and he went they'd thought Howell would be gone in the 2nd-3rd.  Same point that Keim continues to make which they were high on their board last year -- and pre Wentz trade considered taking him in the 2nd.  Rivera said in the 5th they couldn't resist even though they thought they had QB addressed.  Daniel Jermeiah kicks in that he was 48th player on his board and he was shocked Howell went so low.

 

Paulsen digests this and all of a sudden hits the epiphany that Howell isn't an ordinary 5th rounder and that he should have gone higher, was ranked a top 5 player in some mocks before his last college season, etc.   And maybe that means something.  So he goes (like many of us here) if Howell were taken in the 2nd-3rd as Jeremiah and Rivera and plenty of others thought he should go -- would we be talking about him differently.  He goes yes.   He goes that people (including him) were killing Howell's prospects of success in the league purely because he was a 5th rounder, and that's unfair considering he's not the typical 5th rounder. 

 

And he then ran 2 radio segments on the subject.  It's like they read this thread?  

Edited March 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[illone]

The troubling, but also unsurprising, element of this new nflpa report is that by all accounts it looks like all the money went right into Dan’s pocket for yacht fuel and private jet trips. 
 

instead of taking care of his most valuable asset, the players and coaches, he treated the franchise like his own piggy bank and took care of himself. 
 

dude is basically bernie madoff yet wont serve time. 
 

It’s definitely a big deal to the people that work in the building. Its definitely affected the on field results. 
 

how much you want to bet the same posters claiming this isnt a big deal are the same

ones that show up to work and file HR complaints for the printer being broken in the office. 
 

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by illone

[zCommander]

19 minutes ago, illone said:

how much you want to bet the same posters claiming this isnt a big deal are the same

ones that show up to work and file HR complaints for the printer being broken in the office. 

 

That only happens when the printer has verbally or sexually abused the user. Normal people go to the IT department and yell at them instead. 

[HigSkin]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I'll give some props to Grant Paulsen, changing his mind, doing a 180, after being hardcore previously with an opposite take.  Grant was in the crowd of hey Howell is a 5th round pick, enough said, the odds are too stacked against him to have much chance of a success because of where he was taken.  Same take as Sheehan and some others on the board-twitter.

 

It was triggered by Rivera going on the NFL Network today, and he went they'd thought Howell would be gone in the 2nd-3rd.  Same point that Keim continues to make which they were high on their board last year -- and pre Wentz trade considered taking him in the 2nd.  Rivera said in the 5th they couldn't resist even though they thought they had QB addressed.  Daniel Jermeiah kicks in that he was 48th player on his board and he was shocked Howell went so low.

 

Paulsen digests this and all of a sudden hits the epiphany that Howell isn't an ordinary 5th rounder and that he should have gone higher, was ranked a top 5 player in some mocks before his last college season, etc.   And maybe that means something.  So he goes (like many of us here) if Howell were taken in the 2nd-3rd as Jeremiah and Rivera and plenty of others thought he should go -- would we be talking about him differently.  He goes yes.   He goes that people (including him) were killing Howell's prospects of success in the league purely because he was a 5th rounder, and that's unfair considering he's not the typical 5th rounder. 

 

And he then ran 2 radio segments on the subject.  It's like they read this thread?  

 

Pauline was on The Junkies this morning and pretty much said what DJ mentioned.  He had Howell rated high and also said if he gets to playing like he did his junior year, Washington found their franchise QB

[KDawg]

I for one am shocked that Howell isn’t a regular 5th rounder. Shocked.

[-9-]

[Bifflog]

10 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

But can Dalton come in and win you 3 or 4 games in a row if the #1 QB goes down?

 

Question is, would you really want to at that point?  I guess if you were 10-3 and the rest of the squad looked as good as the O, then sure, otherwise probably not?

[Est.1974]

34 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

 

Question is, would you really want to at that point?  I guess if you were 10-3 and the rest of the squad looked as good as the O, then sure, otherwise probably not?

We don’t know if Howell can come in and win us 3 or 4 games in a row yet as QB1. This season is about seeing what we’re got in Howell. The backup doesn’t need to eat a ton of cap space IMO.

[Command The 414]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

 The backup doesn’t need to eat a ton of cap space IMO.

Bingo, and totally agree, there are 3 options imho that fit this bill to a T........Dalton, Bridgewater or Mariotta (which him being my last ditch effort and I'd actually rather it be Fromm then Mariotta)

[Skinsinparadise]

10 hours ago, KDawg said:

I for one am shocked that Howell isn’t a regular 5th rounder. Shocked.

 

Yep it is shocking.    

 

I was equally shocked that a dude (Paulsen) could actually digest information and have no problem changing his mind on an issue even though he was feisty previously with the opposite take.  Paulsen doesn't always do it but I actually respected him a lot for doing that this time. 

 

Some (not you) have a hard time doing that -- they'd rather double down on a bad take to be consistent versus on 2nd thought they were wrong -- which I always find wild considering hey its life we all get things wrong, its OK to own up to stuff, learn from it and move on.  It's no big deal.    

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chris 44]

15 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

No idea. It’s Howell or bust really. I don’t see Ron thinking a 1 year 10mil deal is a good idea. Maybe he does.
 

Personally I’d just go Howell, very cheap vet, rookie.

Not a popular opinion....but I would not be shocked to see TH re-signed.

Edited March 3, 2023 by Chris 44

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

Not a popular opinion....but I would not be shocked to see TH re-signed.

 

I'd be mildly surprised but not shocked.  It's clear he's in a play as an option.

[Chris 44]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd be mildly surprised but not shocked.  It's clear he's in a play as an option.

Ron mentioned him at 6:37 of his presser, something to the effect of "hes a free agent, have to look at that".

 

Cheap

Coaches are familiar (except of course EB)

I think everyone including TH knows he is not a starter

I believe the players are comfortable with him...again they too realize he is not the answer

Dont think he is a distraction to anyone but the fans. If anyone is clamoring for him over Howell then the season is lost anyway. 

Not drafting a QB high enough that could remotely be able to start this season. Ron etc, know nothing is guaranteed beyond this year and are not wasting time and effort on anyone besides Howell at this point. Top tier QBs aren't coming here, lower level not out of the realm of possibility but only coming here if they have no other options due to ownership flux. My only caveat is if EB likes someone in the lower tier, I can see him being able to sway them to come here. But again that's only lower tier.

Different ownership situation, different coaching situation (not guaranteed beyond this year) I dont think he would be an option. But under these circumstances I can see it. Would be different if ownership resolved before all options are off the table but it doesn't look like that will be resolved even before the draft.

 

Im not clamoring for him, don't care either way, just my thoughts on why its not out of the question he is brought back.