The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Jumbo]

38 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

Im sorry, what rule am I breaking?

 

Well, for one, you're doing it now by asking this on the thread instead of using the feedback/question forum. Read rule 18 thoroughly and carefully. I'll give you an undeserved pass on this one.

 

But in the post of yours I had quoted you should be able to see how it can read as being the same kind of violation.

 

More to the point, you shouldn't have to ask what rule you might be missing. You should be pouring over them given your history.

 

You had two different temp bans by two mods in recent times for violating two basic rules that have been here forever.

 

So you now, after this, have zero slack. Best make sure you know what you're doing moving forward if you want to remain.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

The funny thing is that you didn't even require hindsight to know that what they were going to end up doing with KC was a moronic decision. You could see it from years ahead, it was hilariously a Doofus Dan move. If they didn't want him, and they obviously didn't, why not get a first for him?

 

That's why I always 100% put it on Dan and not Bruce because all of the really idiotic moves come from Doofus Dan. The tell is too obvious. Then a year later everybody found out that he's the one who wanted Haskins and all of a sudden he finally was exposed and fired everybody. Nowhere to hide, gotta find a new crew to hide behind.

 

 

I certainly didn't require hindsight.  Neither did @goskins10, @BatteredFanSyndrome and a host of others that took arrows on it at the time.  Most hot issue I think post RG3 was Kirk-Bruce and arguably Kirk-Bruce was the after shock of RG3.  

 

But I am giving some of the Kirk haters an out with the hindsight line but few are taking it.  

 

I put it all on Dan but with a diferent angle than you.  Following that sad saga religiously, I got zero doubt that Bruce had a heavy hand in the dysfunction.  Like I used to say then, there can be two villains in a movie it doesn't have to be just one.  But Dan is always the lead villain.  

 

Bringing this to today.  We have had the worst QBR rating for QB play in the league, dead last post Kirk.  Got no doubt Kirk got the last laugh.  Bruce was canned.  Dan villified in a big way and maybe a goner himself soon.   Kirk actually won a playoff game.  Kirk got a raise and is staying where he's at.  He's already helped win more games for the Vikings this season than this franchise has in over 30 years.  And he's 2-0 against this team.  If the Kirk saga was a movie, I know some here hate me saying this, but Kirk would be the protaganist.  this team would be the villain. 

 

i admit I much rather play Minny than SF in the playoffs but part of me fears it because Kirk has won the karmic war so to speak against this team, I suspect the next chapter might favor him, too.

 

Kirk though sadly is just one narrative of a series of sad narratives in this team's quest to land and hold a franchise QB.  Dan started the bad karma when he dumped Brad Johnson for Jeff George.  Brad then wins a SB and comes here and beats this team and mocks Dan by wearing the Redskins jersey as he heads to the bus.  On and on and on. Dan has earned all this bad karma.

 

I don't think the QB tailspin will end until the douche sells the team.  

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Wyvern]

Honestly, I was glad for Cousins when he finally was able to escape Snyder/Allen.  He's a decent, but probably not elite, QB and apparently a really decent person off the field.

 

Maybe that's why I'm amazed about all the negative posts about Cousins-- such as crowing over all the sacks he takes behind a poor O-Line while trying to pass on 3rd &17's  in order to keep pace (or catch up) with what the Vike's rebuilding defense is giving up -- or why he can't pluck victory from the jaws of defeat each time the Vikings are trailing in the 4th quarter.   So, I'm glad for those times when he can prove his doubters wrong, about not being able to mount a comeback win, or pull out a win in the final moments of a game.  Yesterday, will be a historical rebuttal of that complaint -- and yet, I know some folks are still going to try to.nibble away at that accomplishment, because of things ranging from Cousins salary to.his record with the Redskins.  SMH

 

Meanwhile, I'm shocked how these folks going after Cousins' salary, etc.,  are so quiet when it comes to Deshaun ("DePerv") Watson considering the salary he's getting from the Browns. Performance aside, "DePerv" Watson is a creep and shouldn't even be in the NFL, much less being awarded with mega-million contract, and I remember folks wanting Washington to do whatever it took to sign him!

 

IMHO, If folks want to go against Snyder for these kinds of things, then they stay consistent about this measuring stick when it comes to "DePerv" Watson.Nope, nothing is being said bout "DePerv", because some folks would prefer to continue to grind on Cousins' inability to win every game behind a sub-par O-line, a bend-and-often-break defense, and shaky special teams group.  (Heck, while in Washington,Cousins had the same problems as Aaron Rodgers is struggling with now --a Joe Barry defense. So should we grind on A-Rod too?)

 

Bottom Line:  I'm not a Vikings fan, and don't care how far they go into the playoffs.  But, like him or not, Cousins is a competitive, NFL-level starting QB, with no significant character concerns, and he deserves some recognition for what he's been able to do. And if folks want to continue to harp on him  not performing to the expectations of his contract -- maybe instead they need to focus their criticism more on Wilson, Murray, DePerv, etc. ( Heck. maybe folks should reflect on why Watson is even in the NFL, when it's supposedly trying to clean up its act.)

Edited December 18, 2022 by Wyvern

[Skinsinparadise]

I would, too but only if his contract can be redone.  If he's at 40 million, no way. 

 

My gut is the early off season is going to be talk from beat guys about Carr and Jimmy G coming here, and my gut is it might end up Jimmy G. 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think the QB tailspin will end until the douche sells the team.

 

No doubt. Dan Snyders Fantasy Football team spent so many draft picks (and wasted cap on guys like Smith/McNabb/Brunell/Wentz) on QB's over the years it's kind of funny that in the end they end up with an UDFA QB with no arm winning almost every game this team has won over the past 2 years. 

 

Not only that but Heineke is the only QB to start 16 games or more to have a winning record under Doofus Dan. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by SkinsFTW

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

No doubt. Dan Snyders Fantasy Football team spent so many draft picks (and wasted cap on guys like Smith/McNabb/Brunell/Wentz) on QB's over the years it's kind of funny that in the end they end up with an UDFA QB with no arm winning almost every game this team has won over the past 2 years. 

 

3rd for Brunell

1st for Ramsey

1st and if I recall a 2nd for Campbell?

2nd and 3rd for McNabb

1st for Haskins

4th for Kirk

1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, RG3

3rd and Fuller for Alex

 

So if my math is right

6 first round picks

3 2nd round picks

3 third round picks

4th rounder

And K. Fuller

 

Meanwhile the Eagles pile on draft picks from their QB trades.  Why have the Eagles >>>>> Washington under Dan?  There are a zillion reasons but QB alone is a comical joke.  The fact that the Eagles got more back for A. Feeley than we did for Kirk says it all.

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

And remember Doofus Dan also wanted to throw away a couple firsts for Cutler lol. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I put it all on Dan but with a diferent angle than you.  Following that sad saga religiously, I got zero doubt that Bruce had a heavy hand in the dysfunction.  Like I used to say then, there can be two villains in a movie it doesn't have to be just one.  But Dan is always the lead villain.  

After Bruce’s testimony, I can’t help but wonder just how much of it was him and how much of it was Dan.  The more I think about it, if Dan really wanted to keep Kirk - he would have made Bruce handle everything differently.  I’m sure Kirk felt like a stark reminder to Dan that Shanahan knew better than him.

 

That being said, I’m glad things shook out the way they did.  Since Kirk left, it’s been all downhill and I’m not sure we get to the boiling point we are with Dan’s ownership if he’s still here.

Edited December 18, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Thats fine, I literally said kirk is more talented and if you're picking someone to win a game then you take cousins for that reason, but if you're asking who I would rather have as QB for a season, id take TH because I find Kirk really hard to root for and neither of them are talented enough to win ****, so you may as well take the cheaper guy who at least is entertaining to watch.

 

My posts on this subject aren't directed to you.  You got some good posts on various threads and to each their own, I agree.   Some on that old QB thread could get nasty and you weren't one of those people.  

 

I liked the 2015-2017 offenses, we could move the ball, we looked like real NFL offense for a change.  But lets leave Kirk out and just focus on Heinicke.   I am entertained by Taylor as an interview.  I get that angle.  But I am not entertained at all by the 20 point or less plodding offense.  lol, I think for his faults, Alex Smith's offense was even more exciting to watch.

 

I am hoping we can land a QB this coming off season who can move the ball.  I am watching the red zone right now and seeing offenses that can score more than 20 points, And i am very jealous. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[SkinsFTW]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

After Bruce’s testimony, I can’t help but wonder just how much of it was him and how much of it was Dan.  The more I think about it, if Dan really wanted to keep Kirk - he would have made Bruce handle everything differently.  I’m sure Kirk felt like a stark reminder to Dan that Shanahan knew better than him.

 

 

To me, it said it all when Kirk won that game and Dan Snyder walked past Kirk to go comfort RG3 after the win, can't remember which game it was but I remember this being discussed a lot.

 

That was similar to him saying "We finally have a QB" this year and now Heineke is the actual starter once again. Dan just always gets what he actually deserves lol.

[Zim489]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I would, too but only if his contract can be redone.  If he's at 40 million, no way. 

 

My gut is the early off season is going to be talk from beat guys about Carr and Jimmy G coming here, and my gut is it might end up Jimmy G. 

 

 

 

If hes 20 mil im still not. Enough with other teams looking to cast off their mid QBs. We need to find our own Elite QB

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

After Bruce’s testimony, I can’t help but wonder just how much of it was him and how much of it was Dan.  The more I think about it, if Dan really wanted to keep Kirk - he would have made Bruce handle everything differently.  I’m sure Kirk felt like a stark reminder to Dan that Shanahan knew better than him.

 

That being said, I’m glad things shook out the way they did.  Since Kirk left, it’s been all downhill and I’m not sure we get to the boiling point we are with Dan’s ownership if he’s still here.

 

Tough for me to answer this in full without derailing the thread.  I'll just answer it this way.  From people close to the action, Vinny was billed as a nice guy and almost completely Dan's stooge.  Vinny was just doing Dan's bidding by most accounts.  With Bruce, I get the vibe it was more 50-50.  But more on point, unlike Vinny, Bruce was not considered likeable. 

 

And I've heard to death how much Bruce's behavior-demeanor turned off Kirk's agent and Kirk himself.  Cooley shared himself how delusional Bruce was about the contract from his own conversations with him -- some of which fit Bruce's record in Tampa (pre-Dan).  I met Bruce twice.  Once with my wife who goes to me how phony Bruce came off and that's just from a couple of exchanges in the hotel.  I don't think it was a coincidence that Jay and Dan called Kirk to wish him luck after the Alex trade and Bruce did not.

 

But I agree with your overall point if Dan wanted him he could have kept him.  And Dan has prioritizied his bromances whether its RG3, Bruce or you name it over the success of this team.  I get the strong impression that both of those bromances impinged on the situation with Kirk.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

If hes 20 mil im still not. Enough with other teams looking to cast off their mid QBs. We need to find our own Elite QB

 

I don't have the take that this is a "meh" roster like you do.  So yeah for me, I'd take an upgrade this off season.

 

As for go get an elite QB, yep, I don't think you'd get a single argument from anyone.  We all want our Mahomes.  the challange obviously is getting said player.  As dumb as Dan is, even he gets that an elite QB is a game changer.  finding that dude obviously is a mega challenge. 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Wyvern]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

3rd and Fuller for Kirk

Sorry to correct an eminent ES'er who I very much respect -- but I think you meant Smith, not Cousins.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Wyvern

[BigDibbs31]

I cant believe we have gone full circle and Kirk is dominating the discussion again

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Sorry to correct an eminent ES'er who I very much respect -- but I think you meant Smith, not Cousins.

 

Yep, thanks!

[dc1]

30 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Honestly, I was glad for Cousins when he finally was able to escape Snyder/Allen.  He's a decent, but probably not elite, QB and apparently a really decent person off the field.

 

Maybe that's why I'm amazed about all the negative posts about Cousins-- such as crowing over all the sacks he takes behind a poor O-Line while trying to pass on 3rd &17's  in order to keep pace (or catch up) with what the Vike's rebuilding defense is giving up -- or why he can't pluck victory from the jaws of defeat each time the Vikings are trailing in the 4th quarter.   So, I'm glad for those times when he can prove his doubters wrong, about not being able to mount a comeback win, or pull out a win in the final moments of a game.  Yesterday, will be a historical rebuttal of that complaint -- and yet, I know some folks are still going to try to.nibble away at that accomplishment, because of things ranging from Cousins salary to.his record with the Redskins.  SMH

 

Meanwhile, I'm shocked how these folks going after Cousins' salary, etc.,  are so quiet when it comes to Deshaun ("DePerv") Watson considering the salary he's getting from the Browns. Performance aside, "DePerv" Watson is a creep and shouldn't even be in the NFL, much less being awarded with mega-million contract, and I remember folks wanting Washington to do whatever it took to sign him!

 

IMHO, If folks want to go against Snyder for these kinds of things, then they stay consistent about this measuring stick when it comes to "DePerv" Watson.Nope, nothing is being said bout "DePerv", because some folks would prefer to continue to grind on Cousins' inability to win every game behind a sub-par O-line, a bend-and-often-break defense, and shaky special teams group.  (Heck, while in Washington,Cousins had the same problems as Aaron Rodgers is struggling with now --a Joe Barry defense. So should we grind on A-Rod too?)

 

Bottom Line:  I'm not a Vikings fan, and don't care how far they go into the playoffs.  But, like him or not, Cousins is a competitive, NFL-level starting QB, with no significant character concerns, and he deserves some recognition for what he's been able to do. And if folks want to continue to harp on him  not performing to the expectations of his contract -- maybe instead they need to focus their criticism more on Wilson, Murray, DePerv, etc. ( Heck. maybe folks should reflect on why Watson is even in the NFL, when it's supposedly trying to clean up its act.)

Watson never played for us. 

 

There is no need to bring him in this discussion for a number of reasons. Keep in mind that the civil and criminal legal verticals are different because they actually demand two incredibly different standards of validation.  

 

Let's keep it on the Commanders, prior and future.

 

Kirk may not kick kittens..but he can come up short in Minnesota wearing "you like that?" t-shirts for the rest of his career for all I care.

 

I'll take this moxie and what ever QB we lace-up going in the 2023 all day long.

[Wyvern]

Sorry, I got tired of the Anti-Cousins dialog, especially when the Vikings put up more points in last half of the game, than the TH-led Washington team mustered up in 2 games.

 

But I agree, its really not relevant to this thread; so I'll not stoke the fires any further.

[dc1]

Dallas,  at the moment of the typing, is about to take an "L" from the Jacksonville Jags!

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, dc1 said:

Dallas,  at the moment of the typing, is about to take an "L" from the Jacksonville Jags!

 

I watched some of that.   Speaking of a franchise QB, Lawrence looking like the real deal after a mediocre start to his career. 

[dc1]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I watched some of that.   Speaking of a franchise QB, Lawrence looking like the real deal after a mediocre start to his career. 

He is.

 

What's wild is coaching and scheme had him pegged as a certified bust (coming into this season).

 

Making it work at the QB takes a special combination of talent and personal....and a whole bunch of luck.

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by dc1

[Zim489]

Jags are 1 slight overthrow from beating us and being 500. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, dc1 said:

He is.

 

What's wild is coaching and scheme had him pegged as a certified bust (coming into this season).

 

Making it work at the QB takes a special combination of talent and personal....and a whole bunch of luck.

 

 

 

Agree about the turnaround.  Their coaching situation last year was beyond bad, sounds like it was epic level toxic.  Having Etienne who he lost last year seems to help.  The Christian Kirk signing while mocked at the time looks good now.  They spent money to upgrade the O line.  

46 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

And remember Doofus Dan also wanted to throw away a couple firsts for Cutler lol. 

 

Also tried to trade up for Mark Sanchez but got outbid.  WP reported he fall in love with Brady Quinn and his FO had to talk him out of it.

 

I think name that farm animal could do a better job picking QBs than Dan.

 

I forgot to mention this but Cooley said to Sheehan in a podcast this year that he once told Dan he is bad at scouting-choosing QBs.   Cooley didn't say what Dan said in response. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[dc1]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree about the turnaround.  Their coaching situation last year was beyond bad, sounds like it was epic level toxic.  Having Etienne who he lost last year seems to help.  The Christian Kirk signing while mocked at the time looks good now.  They spent money to upgrade the O line.  

 

Also tried to trade up for Mark Sanchez but got outbid.  WP reported he fall in love with Brady Quinn and his FO had to talk him out of it.

 

I think name that farm animal could do a better job picking QBs than Dan.

 

I forgot to mention this but Cooley said to Sheehan in a podcast this year that he once told Dan he is bad at scouting-choosing QBs.   Cooley didn't say what Dan said in response. 

Word 

 

And then you have scenarios like San Francisco.   Brock (this guy can't be real) Purdy!

 

I just need that to play out for us at some point.

 

All said, we're going to saddle up this moxie horse and ride it out .... heart palpitations and all.

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, dc1 said:

Word 

 

And then you have scenarios like San Francisco.   Brock (this guy can't be real) Purdy!

 

I just need that to play out for us at some point.

 

All said, we're going to saddle up this moxie horse and ride it out .... heart palpitations and all.

 

IMO as for QB talent is #1 but the next two components are critical --

 

A.  the personality-drive of that QB, not every player has that Rocky like drive. 

 

B.  Good coaching and supporting cast.

 

I've has some friendly debates with some who think its almost all about B after talent.    IMO its about both A and B after talent.    Bruce Arians wrote a great book about QBs and he delves into it in detail. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Skinsinparadise