The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

 

And for the love of god keep us away from Mac. 

 

I got no problem calling you out, I do it all the time.  But I didn't put names on the point because that wasn't the point of my post.  But yeah you'd be the king of point A I made in that mix. 😉

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

You don't gain much with Heinicke running, but you run the risk of losing a lot because he's more likely to get hurt due to his small stature. And then we'd be completely boned.

 

The risk-reward just isn't in our favor.

He’s also been opting to pass rather than take the green grass in front of him on broken plays.

 

It’s optimal for Heinicke to take the yards on the ground vs. put the ball in the air a lot more times than it’s not.

 

There’s a short list of players and reasons to protect at all costs, and TH isn’t on that list.

[oraphus]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniel Jones has earned one-year Giants return and real chance for more

 

 

https://nypost.com/2022/12/12/daniel-jones-deserves-giants-return-real-chance-to-earn-more/

 

I hope they keep him.  Not because I think he's awful.   I think he's a slightly below average QB and better than what we got.  But if they are paying him 20 million plus I think he will saddle them.

 

I disagree... I think Jones is an above average QB on a below average offense. Reality is that he might be even better that that... he just hasnt had much to work with. I was advocating on trading for him on the cheap last year but the cat is out of the bag now. With the poor state of qb playin the nfl he will get paid this off season (even if by the Giants so i am ok with it) 

[redskinss]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There’s a short list of players and reasons to protect at all costs, and TH isn’t on that list

[zCommander]

55 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

You said it yourself, avoiding running even just to avoid non-contact injury is a good, healthy decision. Wentz is just taking TB12 levels of care with his health. I could see why Carson doesn't like to run more to protect himself. I don't blame him for doing what is best for him. His stock does take a hit but staying healthy does look good for whatever the future holds for him though.

 

Funny guy. Even you are smart enough to know the difference between moving out of the way and standing like a statue and taking a sack instead.

 

[NickyJ]

15 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Funny guy. Even you are smart enough to know the difference between moving out of the way and standing like a statue and taking a sack instead.

 

And you are smart enough to know that being afraid to run in open field because a player might injure himself while running is the point where a player should just retire. Fortunately, I think Heinicke is so passionate that he wouldn't be such a selfish player. I think he's simply making poor decisions.

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

And you are smart enough to know that being afraid to run in open field because a player might injure himself while running is the point where a player should just retire. Fortunately, I think Heinicke is so passionate that he wouldn't be such a selfish player. I think he's simply making poor decisions.

 

He did say he should have run on some plays (said this recently) seeing that he was leaving some yards on the field. Was that a poor decisions or more of a hesitation to protect himself?

[NickyJ]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

He did say he should have run on some plays (said this recently) seeing that he was leaving some yards on the field. Was that a poor decisions or more of a hesitation to protect himself?

If he's selfish, he was choosing to protect himself over helping the team win. If it was a poor decision, it was looking for a better option to throw to and not taking the open field in front of him. Do you think he was making the selfish choice?

Edited December 13, 2022 by NickyJ

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I think it’s natural for guys without guaranteed money in the bag to have fear of injury somewhere in their head.  
 

But with Heinicke, focusing on being a pocket passer seems like a fools errand.  Short with an inaccurate weak arm, beyond that dudes get injured in the pocket as well.  He has a good slide and doesn’t take on unnecessary hits, it’s a given he should be doing this more.

[zCommander]

12 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

If he's selfish, he was choosing to protect himself over helping the team win. If it was a poor decision, it was looking for a better option to throw to and not taking the open field in front of him. Do you think he was making the selfish choice?

 

I think he is. I know he can run. Remember that spin move in the Vikings game. That was pretty cool and wondered where is this Taylor all this season. He is more hesitant now and was some part of last year as well. 

[Ball Security]

Whoa.  Mariota evidently just quit.  Got demoted and left the team.

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Whoa.  Mariota evidently just quit.  Got demoted and left the team.

 

Damn!

 

Part of me is like sign him before the 49ers do and part of me is thinking, "if he quit on them he'll quit on us when/if things get tough".

 

 

.

Edited December 13, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Zim489 said:

I wouldnt be shocked if they asked for a trade. Its one of the most strained relationships I have seen in a long time thats entirely warranted by the players side. 

 

It's wildly intense.   and Mac isn't known as a head case so i gather some of it is warranted as well.  Clearly, he liked playing better for McDaniels. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Daniel Jones isn't really good, yet accounting for his wheels is an issue for teams.  As I've said I am not married to any player or even any theory about how to approach the QB spot this off season, to me its all about context.  But everything being equal, if this team is going to major in running the ball, adding a QB who can run IMO feeds that mindset-approach. 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, Ball Security said:

Whoa.  Mariota evidently just quit.  Got demoted and left the team.

 

I'm guessing promises were made b4 the season and then broken.

 

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniel Jones isn't really good, yet accounting for his wheels is an issue for teams. 

 

As a whole package when you add in his rushing numbers he is giving his team 3K+ yards and 17 TDs to 4 INTs while completing 66% of his passes. He is on pace to eclipse 4K total yards. Certainly nothing to sneeze at. They did a pretty good job squeezing some new life outta the guy.

 

Gonna need to find a way to increase his passing production tho. Obviously gonna need better weapons around him.

[DJHJR86]

That's the kind of guy I wouldn't want anywhere near this team.  At least Wentz took his benching in stride and has been a pro.  What a coward move to quit on your team because you were benched.  

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, oraphus said:

I disagree... I think Jones is an above average QB on a below average offense. Reality is that he might be even better that that... he just hasnt had much to work with. I was advocating on trading for him on the cheap last year but the cat is out of the bag now. With the poor state of qb playin the nfl he will get paid this off season (even if by the Giants so i am ok with it) 

 

Sadly because my in laws are Giants fans, I've watched most of his games.  I don't think he's an above average QB.   And while he mainly because of injuries doesn't have weapons currently, he has had weapons at times during his tenure.  But I'll give him that its been on and off including their O line play.

 

He was a turnover waiting to happen throughout his career, record setting on some counts.  But I'll give him that he turned a corner on that front this year.  IMO he's a slightly below average QB.   If someone wants to argue average, I don't have a big issue with it.  Above average QB and maybe even better than just above average, I disagree.  But will see, if they keep him, their FO seems sharp, they will likely load it up for him. 

 

Wandale Robinson was just starting to look good until his injury, he was one of my favorite players in the recent draft.   Shepard is a solid WR but he often gets hurt.  Slayton got off to a good career start but it hasn't really worked for him since but not bad as a 4th type receiver.   Evan Engram looks on pace for a career year but alas for Daniel Jones he's now in Jacksonville.   They can use an F TE like him and big time. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[PolarExpress]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

That's the kind of guy I wouldn't want anywhere near this team.  At least Wentz took his benching in stride and has been a pro.  What a coward move to quit on your team because you were benched.  

I don’t know, I’d have to get the details on how it was handled.  But it looks bad.

[DJHJR86]

Just now, PolarExpress said:

I don’t know, I’d have to get the details on how it was handled.  But it looks bad.

 

Now he has people saying that they moved him to IR because he just had a kid and he wanted to be home with his family?  Seems really strange to do that considering there are 4 games left and the Falcons still have a shot to win their division.  There's also the chance that Mariota would have been able to play again this year.

[Conn]

9 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

That's the kind of guy I wouldn't want anywhere near this team.  At least Wentz took his benching in stride and has been a pro.  What a coward move to quit on your team because you were benched.  

 

People are projecting a lot onto what Smith said. Clearly Arthur Smith is pissed—but a more generous reading of what he said would be: “Mariota has a chronic knee issue that’s been acting up but was worth ignoring while he was gutting it out and starting, and decided if he’s going to the bench he may as well get it checked out now and taken care of”. Which is kinda logical for someone who just went from battling for the playoffs and his future with the team to finding out he’s definitely hitting FA in a few months. Of course Smith isn’t happy because if Ridder sucks uncontrollably or gets hurt then it would’ve been back to Mariota, likely. The main story seems to be that coaches can have their cake and expect to eat it, too—while players really cannot without being smeared. Mariota just found out he isn’t in the future plans of his organization but is expected not to take care of himself leading up to his impending Free Agency? I get why it’s unpopular but it’s the same way players are always expected to sacrifice without question, right up until the franchise is done with them. Just a crappy situation all around, assuming the story that he’s been playing through knee pain all season is true. If not, then yeah he quit. But the Packers have talked openly about shelving Rodgers on IR due to injuries and needing to see Love play, if they fall out of playoff contention—this isn’t that different. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Conn

[DJHJR86]

Just now, Conn said:

People are projecting a lot onto what Smith said. Clearly Arthur Smith is pissed—but a more generous reading of what he said would be: “Mariota has a chronic knee issue that’s been acting up but was worth ignoring while he was gutting it out and starting, and decided if he’s going to the bench he may as well get it checked out now and taken care of”. Which is kinda logical for someone who just went from battling for the playoffs and his future with the team to finding out he’s definitely hitting FA in a few months. 

 

 

 

"Nothing that's been an issue this season...but that's their prerogative", is not exactly a ringing endorsement.  

 

[Conn]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

 

"Nothing that's been an issue this season...but that's their prerogative", is not exactly a ringing endorsement.  

 

 

I don’t think it’s that odd that a guy with a starting job is going to gut out injuries more than someone who was just told he’s not in the future plans of the organization. We just inherently expect players to always be on the sacrifice end of situations like that. Just seems like an odd situation since the main reason Mariota keeps getting chances is because he’s known as a good team guy. He’s been benched and been a backup before, for years at a time. 

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

I don’t think it’s that odd that a guy with a starting job is going to gut out injuries more than someone who was just told he’s not in the future plans of the organization. We just inherently expect players to always be on the sacrifice end of situations like that. Just seems like an odd situation since the main reason Mariota keeps getting chances is because he’s known as a good team guy. He’s been benched and been a backup before, for years at a time. 

 

Informed of the decision on Thursday.  Wants to see a knee specialist for an injury that no one knew existed on Friday.  

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

As a whole package when you add in his rushing numbers he is giving his team 3K+ yards and 17 TDs to 4 INTs while completing 66% of his passes. He is on pace to eclipse 4K total yards. Certainly nothing to sneeze at. They did a pretty good job squeezing some new life outta the guy.

 

Gonna need to find a way to increase his passing production tho. Obviously gonna need better weapons around him.

 

I've watched a lot of Daniel Jones.  Outside of our QBs, I feel the most comfortable rating him because of all the games of his I've watched -- going back to his college days, too.

 

Before this season i thought Daniel Jones was a bottom tier QB but a starter level bottom tier (23-28 range).  The games I watched he was bad in the clutch, didn't make many wow throws.  He throws it really well on the first level, hits WRs in stride.  And the kicker was all the fumbles-picks.

 

This season, like our team the Giants decided to major in their running game.  Took the pressure off of Daniel and he has played better.  The turnovers are way down and he's way better in the clutch.  Am I sold he's turned a corner?  No.  Mainly because he's more of a sidekick QB like our QB -- he's Robin not Batman.  And yes he's better in that role.  But I haven't really been blown away by his passing.  But I do think he's dangerous as a runner.

 

I was curious so I looked up his big time throw rating from PFF.  That's their rating for tight window, deep throws, etc, their take of wow throws and his rating on that is even lower than Taylor both this year and last year -- that meets what I've seen from him.

 

I think Daniel Jones at his best is a solid passer and an above average runner.  Is he better than Taylor?  Yes.  Is he a really good QB, IMO no.  But will see.  he has a good coach who has helped him this season reign in his turnover issues. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise