The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[MrJL]

8 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I've seen people repeat this line over and over about Watson. But why? Why can't Watson be here? What do people think will really happen if he came? The team will lose fans? Become a laughingstock? Get saddled with the worst owner in the league? Be irrelevant for 30+ years? Lose a lot? Oh wait, all of that already has happened. So really, why can't it happen with Watson? What really is going to change? Actually win games? Oh, the horror!

 

No, I think if he comes to Washington, a team that has had disproportionate penalties against it when doing questionable things, he will get suspended and we will lose the picks and players we give up for him and possibly still have to take his cap space.  A guy accused of serial sexual harassment(abuse? not sure), being sent to a team that's also being investigated for those things to be the hero for that team is a bad look for the NFL and they wouldn't like it.

 

If he comes to Washington he doesn't play football again for a long time, that's why he can't be here

[BraveWarrior]

13 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Every scene in hard knocks he’s always the first guy in the building. In the first episode they play a TNF game and he mentions he can’t go to bed until he watches the game tape even though he got home super late.  Dude is all about film study. 

Hmm. So what went wrong? Why was Indy so quick to move on without him, especially given that they have no alternative on their roster?  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, Jericho said:

 

Nowhere? The team has 5 picks total in the draft, none in the 3rd or 5th round. No real cap space anymore. Am I to believe the team is going to burn one of these picks on a QB who won't play in 2022? Just going to ignore every other position?

Feel like we have to trade down from 11. Have to recoup 1-2 Top 100 picks. Deep class, so if someone wants to come up we gotta go back and unfortunately probably not go BPA because we’ve set ourselves up to draft for needs given the sudden cap pinch we are in. 

[HigSkin]

This is really funny, back when Wentz was traded to the Colts.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/football-team/carson-wentz-no-longer-nfc-east-washington-wont-miss-him-either

 

Wentz No Longer in the NFC East and Washington Won't Miss Him

 

The Philadelphia Eagles finally parted with quarterback Carson Wentz on Thursday, agreeing to trade the 28-year-old to the Indianapolis Colts when the NFL's new league year begins in March. 

 

In Indianapolis, Wentz will reunite with Frank Reich, his first NFL offensive coordinator, and be given the chance to start fresh after an awful 2020 season. The trade comes just 18 months after Wentz had agreed to a four-year extension to remain in Philly through the 2024 season.

 

As NBC Sports Washington's Pete Hailey wrote, the Wentz trade only helps Washington in its current quarterback search and moving forward. But, by leaving Philadelphia, Wentz also departs from the NFC East, meaning Washington will go from facing the quarterback twice every year to just once every four years.

 

That fact alone might be the best news to come out of this trade for the Football Team.

 

During Wentz's five-year tenure with the Eagles, he started eight games against Washington. And, while the Burgundy and Gold's 2020 Week 1 victory over the Eagles was a pleasure to watch for Washington fans, the truth is that Wentz got the better of the WFT most of his time as Philly's starting quarterback.

 

As a rookie in 2016, Wentz lost to Washington twice -- both one-score games. But, neither one of those contests should have been nearly as close as they were. Washington had the far superior roster in 2016, yet Wentz -- once again, a rookie at the time -- kept the Eagles in the game both times.

 

Then, from 2017-2019, the Eagles defeated Washington six consecutive times, with Wentz starting five of those games (the QB missed Philly's Week 17 blowout over Washington in 2018 with a back injury).

 

 

In those five victories over Washington, Wentz averaged 292.0 passing yards per game, accounting for 14 touchdowns to just three interceptions. The Eagles won four of those five contests by double-digits, too.

 

In five seasons, Wentz finished his Eagles career against Washington with a 5-3 record, averaging 277.8 passing yards per outing with 17 touchdowns and just six interceptions. Based on those numbers above, if Wentz were to have played against Washington for a full season, his stat line would look like this: 4,446 passing yards, 34 touchdowns and 14 interceptions.

 

For comparison, Bills QB Josh Allen, a borderline MVP candidate in 2020, finished last season with 4,544 passing yards, 37 touchdowns and 10 interceptions. Rookie phenom Justin Herbert finished with similar numbers (4,336 yards, 31 TD, 10 INT) in Los Angeles for the Chargers this past season, too.

 

So, there you have it. Wentz was really, really, good when playing Washington. Although Wentz's reputation across the league is down right now compared to what it once was, Washington will certainly not miss having to face No. 11 in green and black twice a year.

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, BraveWarrior said:

Hmm. So what went wrong? Why was Indy so quick to move on without him, especially given that they have no alternative on their roster?  

Irsay wanted him to get the vaccine. Wentz didn’t. Irsay is more hands on than Snyder and Jerry Jones combined.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Someone posted earlier that there were some sources in Indy that mentioned it as being a problem. 

 

OK.  Keim did some reseach on Wentz asking around and said work ethic is one of his assets -- first to come, last to leave type.

 

I guess we will find out.  Obviously, Wentz has some critics around the league.

 

If it was perfect for Wentz in Indy, we'd have no shot at him.  IMO its a high reward, low risk move.  

 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/philadelphia-eagles/sam-bradford-carson-wentzs-work-ethic-above-and-beyond-normal-standards

Bradford was clear about how disappointed he was that the Eagles traded up to No. 2 to draft Wentz, but he never let that get in the way of his relationship with the 23-year-old North Dakota State product.

“Man, he was great,” Bradford said. “He was a real pro just the way he handled himself in the film room and on the practice field. I could tell early on that he wanted to be great, that he was committed to coming in every day and working really hard. I think the progress he made from OTAs to training camp, it was phenomenal.

 

“You could see it on the practice field. It seemed like he was always getting better each day that he went out there.”

Bradford said he was specifically impressed with Wentz’s work ethic.

“I think he probably went above and beyond what the normal standards would be,” he said. “You could tell early on that he wants to be great, he works at it, he cares about it, he put in a lot of extra time and I think it showed up on the field for him.”

Wentz said he picked up a lot of X-and-O type of stuff from Bradford in the film room and meeting room and practice field but also learned some intangibles from the 28-year-old Bradford, who’s in his seventh NFL season.

 

“We talked obviously a lot about the playbook and those sorts of things but you pick up on all sorts of things,” Wentz said.

 

 

PHILADELPHIA - Chase Daniel said he would have been concerned if Carson Wentz had stopped showing up at the NovaCare Complex at 5:30 a.m. for their daily video review and discussions about everything – quarterbacking, the NFL, life in general.

Yet Daniel said not showing up was never a thought for Wentz, despite the Eagles’ tailspin lately in which they have lost three straight games to practically fall out of playoff contention heading into their game Sunday against Washington.

But if the losing is getting to Wentz, the Eagles’ rookie phenom, Daniel, the Eagles’ backup quarterback, hasn’t noticed it. If anything, the losing and the struggles have only made Wentz more determined.

“We’ve kept the same schedule all year long,” Daniel said. “We try to be consistent in what we do. Like all of us, he hates losing … We’re constantly talking. That’s why we’re meeting so early every day, going over things and trying to learn the other team’s defense and how to attack them with our offense.

 

https://www.delawareonline.com/sports/

 

 

https://thespun.com/nfl/nfc-east/philadelphia-eagles/details-emerge-from-carson-wentz-mindset-this-offseason

Roseman said. “We are talking about a guy that’s immensely talented, has a great work ethic and doing whatever we can to put him in the best possible situation to be successful.”

 

 

https://clutchpoints.com/eagles-pederson-compares-carson-wentzs-work-ethic-preparation-peyton-mannings/

Eagles’ Pederson compares Carson Wentz’s work ethic, preparation to Peyton Manning’s

 

 

 

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2016/09/14/brandon-graham-carson-wentz-5am/

 

 

Brandon Graham: Carson Wentz Gets To Facility Around 5am Everyday

[FLSkinz83]

1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

Irsay wanted him to get the vaccine. Wentz didn’t. Irsay is more hands on than Snyder and Jerry Jones combined.

 

 

 

I think this is exactly true.   Irsay wanted Wentz out more than anyone.

 

Darius Leonard and Ryan Kelly had positive things to say about him and that's good enough for me

[zCommander]

12 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

How can you say not by much? What has Heinicke shown to you that hes hardly worse than Carson Wentz? Wentz threw for 27 tds 7 ints last season Heinicke had 20 tds and 15 picks ....thats a significant upgrade in point to into production alone... 

 

We had a 9 spots tougher schedule than the Colts. Wentz won 2 more games than Taylor. Taylor only played 16 games. This year we will have a much easier schedule. Wentz led team better be like 11+ wins at least so then we can say it was a significant upgrade, until then he is a slight or 2 more wins upgrade from Taylor. 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by zCommander

[HigSkin]

3 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Irsay wanted him to get the vaccine. Wentz didn’t. Irsay is more hands on than Snyder and Jerry Jones combined.

 

 

 

Schefter confirmed this on NFL Live saying there was a riff the day he walked thru the door about vaccination status.  He said it divided "people" and I took that to me players, coaches but makes sense now.

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

You talk about armchair sports psychology only to insert your own sport psychology as to how the players really felt about his medicine balls and yada yada.... 

 

It is not a projection to talk about professional football players being able to recognize a bad QB when they see one, and why that would bother them when they’re trying to win and get paid. It is a projection to pretend that we know he has some charismatic hold over the hearts and minds of the locker room despite all that. 

[BraveWarrior]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Irsay wanted him to get the vaccine. Wentz didn’t. Irsay is more hands on than Snyder and Jerry Jones combined.

 

 

Sorry, I don't buy that as the main reason he's no longer on the Colts. If the product on the field was better, I highly doubt any owner would put so much priority on their disagreement about the vaccine. Case in point - Aaron Rodgers. He lied about his status, and when called out on it, his attitude was basically "So? I'm Aaron ****ing Rodgers. What are you going to do about it?" And that was the end of it (except for a bunch of network talking heads getting on their high horse about it). Not saying anyone would ever expect Wentz to be on par with Rodgers, but a more convincing product on the field, and a playoff berth, would have probably kept him in Indy.

[FLSkinz83]

I know some think we couldn't get a Heineken for TH, but I think a team would offer us a 4th or 5th round pick

[SoCalSkins]

Just now, BraveWarrior said:

Sorry, I don't buy that as the main reason he's no longer on the Colts. If the product on the field was better, I highly doubt any owner would put so much priority on their disagreement about the vaccine. Case in point - Aaron Rodgers. He lied about his status, and when called out on it, his attitude was basically "So? I'm Aaron ****ing Rodgers. What are you going to do about it?" And that was the end of it (except for a bunch of network talking heads getting on their high horse about it). Not saying anyone would ever expect Wentz to be on par with Rodgers, but a more convincing product on the field, and a playoff berth, would have probably kept him in Indy.

Irsay is not rational dude. He thinks Peyton Mannings and Andrew Lucks fall off of trees and you can have Phillip Rivers as a stop gap in between. The dude is not mentally there. 

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

 

We just paid premium draft picks for a guy that would have been cut. A 7th round swap or some significantly lower deal would have got it done due to cap savings on Indys end.

 

This is not the cost of doing business, its a gross overpay built off desperation.

So they offered a 4rth and 6th and Indy said no. Other teams were also actively trying to trade for him, but you believe a 7th round swap would have worked.

 

Makes sense.

[BraveWarrior]

2 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

Irsay is not rational dude. He thinks Peyton Mannings and Andrew Lucks fall off of trees and you can have Phillip Rivers as a stop gap in between. The dude is not mentally there. 

Can't argue with that. He's like a chimp with a machine gun. 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I know some think we couldn't get a Heineken for TH, but I think a team would offer us a 4th or 5th round pick

Teams have specifically said that we don't have a QB to use as a bargaining chip.

[sebestian]

12 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Hmm. So what went wrong? Why was Indy so quick to move on without him, especially given that they have no alternative on their roster?  

 

Because their owner was so enraged with the loss to Jacksonville.  IIRC, right after they returned to Indy he had a long meeting with Ballard and Reich for about three hours and all they did was talk about Wentz.  Apparently Irsay has a good friend named Jack Daniels, I heard he is a swell guy but should not be consumed two bottles at a time.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Conn]

16 minutes ago, BraveWarrior said:

Hmm. So what went wrong? Why was Indy so quick to move on without him, especially given that they have no alternative on their roster?  

Well part of it is bc he refused to be vaccinated, they told him how that could screw their season, then he was lucky not to miss games because the league changed their rules right when he would have been screwed due to not being vaccinated at a vital point in their season, and then he imploded and blew the last couple games that would have allowed him to recover and earn a playoff spot anyways. It was awkward from the jump especially with the owner, got worse when he played poorly down the stretch. As for the locker room stuff and rumors about his ego and unpopularity, I don’t think there are good primary sources on that, just anonymous reports like the ones that tended to follow failed projects out of town in Washington during the Bruce Allen days. So maybe true, maybe exaggerated to explain a missing 1st round pick to an angry Colts fanbase. Definitely doesn’t seem to be an outwardly charismatic leader type of guy but didn’t seem to hurt him until other hardships popped up that he didn’t respond well to.  

Edited March 10, 2022 by Conn

[HigSkin]

4 minutes ago, Conn said:

Well part of it is bc he refused to be vaccinated, they told him how that could screw their season, then he was lucky not to miss games because the league changed their rules right when he would have been screwed due to not being vaccinated at a vital point in their season, and then he imploded and blew the last couple games that would have allowed him to recover and earn a playoff spot anyways. It was awkward from the jump especially with the owner, got worse when he played poorly down the stretch. As for the locker room stuff and rumors about his ego and unpopularity, I don’t think there are good primary sources on that, just anonymous reports like the ones that tended to follow failed projects out of town in Washington during the Bruce Allen days. So maybe true, maybe exaggerated to explain a missing 1st round pick to an angry Colts fanbase. Definitely doesn’t seem to be an outwardly charismatic leader type of guy but didn’t seem to hurt him until other things hardships popped up that he didn’t respond well to.  

 

RGIII on NFL Live said his buddy Chris Canty referred to Wentz as a passenger and not bus driver, meaning he isn't going to be your alpha in the locker room but we've got a coach that does that along with other player alpha's like Jon Allen and Terry McL

 

 

Edited March 10, 2022 by HigSkin

[NoCalMike]

Seems like the front office is putting themselves into a position where next offseason they can potentially go back to the drawing board looking for a franchise QB through the draft or FA.  The only hiccup is I am not sure how you get Wentz to negotiate his 2022 cap hit down without some kind of extension, but I sort of think they don't want to extend him at this time and want 2022 to operate as a prove-it year where if need be they can cut him loose no harm no foul.

 

Wentz's play when health is a significant upgrade over what we currently have on the roster.  The question is whether he holds up or not out there on the field.  Is this going to be Fitzpatrick all over again where we go into the season okay with the situation but Wentz gets taken out in September so Heinicke is back in the driver's seat all over again.

Also, please NFL schedule makers, do not have us open up in a Week 1 prime time game vs Philly. I am begging. 

[Conn]

I’ll say it again—this smear job on Wentz’ locker room reputation when the Colts’ owner needs to explain to his fans why they’re missing a 1st round pick feels a lot like something Bruce Allen would do to players on their way out of here. 
 

It still might be a bad sign that he clashed with ownership and/or the FO, idk, but the fact that amongst these reports more of his former Colts teammates are voicing their support I think means something. They’re potentially combating a narrative that isn’t totally fair. Idk, just speculating on this point. 

[zCommander]

2 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

It is not a projection to talk about professional football players being able to recognize a bad QB when they see one, and why that would bother them when they’re trying to win and get paid. It is a projection to pretend that we know he has some charismatic hold over the hearts and minds of the locker room despite all that. 

 

But lets also not pretend that the players were not excited to see Taylor's energy he brought to the field as well. The houdini acts and doing whatever he could to get the ball to his players. You have to be blind not to see that or have no emotions. They hadn't seen that with all the QB carousel the previous two years. They were also pumped after his performance in the playoff game where they almost pulled it off against Tampa. 

 

Did they see him as elite? Nope. But they saw him as the best QB on the roster that at least gave them a chance to be competitive. Everyone was on a high after the 4 game win streak and then covid-19 hits and all went to ****. It was what it is. 

 

Back to your Wentz makes the team better. He better or else you will have very unhappy players in the locker room. 

[SoCalSkins]

Wentz is a professional athlete who puts in serious time working on his craft. Dude is going to be pissed off at the narrative around him right now. This is basically a make it or break it year for him. I think he is going to put up numbers like he did in 2017 before he got hurt.  I am never this optimistic about anything with this team but it just feels like this is finally our time. 

[BraveWarrior]

Just now, HigSkin said:

 

RGIII on NFL Live said his buddy Chris Canty referred to Wentz as a passenger and not bus driver, meaning he isn't going to be your alpha in the locker room but we've got a coach that does that along with Jon Allen and Terry McL

Off the top of my head, I can't think of too many QBs who achieved a lot of success without having that leadership trait. Randall Cunningham was a guy like that. He'd come off the field after a series where they failed to score, and he'd sit on the bench with a towel over his head. Statistically, he was a good QB, but he couldn't get a very talented team (that had vocal leaders at other positions) over the hump.