The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I have a feeling the Eagles use some of their first round bounty this year to trade back and accumulate a stack of picks in the 2023 draft for that very reason. Insurance policy if their current QB situation goes down the toilet in 2022.

 

They might.  Howie Roseman as I've argued is far from the best drafter in the NFL but might be the best wheeler dealer as for adding picks.

 

But as Cincy supposedly turned down three first round picks from Miami for Burrow.  Teams don't trade away the sure fire type QBs if that's the perception about the QB.  Only time you see it happen is if by chance the team that can draft these guys happen to have a perceived young stud in house.  And even when they do that, they typically want to trade with another team with a high draft pick. 

 

So if we are banking on the 2023 class.  The more realistic targets IMO would be guys like:  Haener, Levin, McCall, Hooker, Rattler, etc. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But as Cincy supposedly turned down three first round picks from Miami for Burrow.  Teams don't trade away the sure fire type QBs if that's the perception about the QB.  Only time you see it happen is if by chance the team that can draft these guys happen to have a perceived young stud in house.  And even when they do that, they typically want to trade with another team with a high draft pick. 

Agreed. Bit like this year with the Jags. 

 

Oh God, imagine trading always next years first rounder, things go sour, then be sat with a top 2 pick in 2023 that you’d given away....

 

That would be so Washington.

[Hitman#21]

10 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Agreed. Bit like this year with the Jags. 

 

Oh God, imagine trading always next years first rounder, things go sour, then be sat with a top 2 pick in 2023 that you’d given away....

 

That would be so Washington.

 

Imagine the league docks our 1's if we decide to hold onto it.. goes both ways bud

[DJHJR86]

19 minutes ago, samy316 said:

This is complicated, and potentially dangerous to Rivera’s job prospects here in DC.  If he actually went down this road, and someone they didn’t draft like Willis or Pickett ended up having a great rookie year and look like franchise QB’s in the making, then Ron is going to have egg on his face AGAIN, and will risk losing the trust of whatever’s left of the fanbase at that point.

 

Ron's first year, IMO, gets a pass because of Snyder essentially handcuffing him to Haskins.  But signing 38 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick to be your starter in year two without a potential starter waiting in the wings?!  He has this year to fix that, but to me, that is unforgivable.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I didn't pick up on it the first time, the dude crapping on this team on the GMF panel is Lesean McCoy.  Of course when asked what team would be a good fit for Amari Cooper he goes the Eagles. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So you think they'd have a good shot at Young and Stroud even though some think they go #1 or #2.  I see this here and there pass on this draft for Young and Stroud but why do we think we'd be picking that high or the teams picking that high would actually trade their picks to us?   

 

Typically when you got these sure type of thing QBs you don't trade away the pick.  You'd have to hope some team with a good young QB like Jacksonville is one of those losing teams.  The other hurdle is with our easy schedule, we might be picking somewhere around 18-24 next year.  Steelers typically don't have a high pick.  When we traded up with the Rams we had the 6th pick in the draft and still gave up the moon from there.  I don't know how easy it would be to get to #2 with lets say the 19th and 23rd pick in the draft 

Definitely a gamble. But in my scenario we go into 2023 with our #1 and Pittsburgh’s #1. Let’s assume we both finish around picks 15-24. We could probably offer those 2 picks, a second, and a future #1in 2024 to get to #1. But yeah, you’d need to luck out and have someone like Jacksonville get that pick again which is unlikely. Texans, Lions, Giants … they’re taking a QB. 
 

But that’s not to say next years class couldn’t have 3-4 top end guys like 2021 and you can get one by moving up to 3-5.

 

It’s all a massive gamble. But as I was saying initially as my point, IF this front office doesn’t see a sure fire guy in this draft I’m okay with them loading up on talent and trying again next year and hoping to strike gold with a Winston/Mariota for a year. Or even a Jimmy G. 
 

My gut says that’s not the likely path though. My guess is we trade 3 #1’s for Watson or draft Willis or Corral at 11. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

But if you were offered 20 and 2023 1st from Pittsburgh you take it if Willis is there and you don’t believe in him. Grab a stud WR at 20, get a TE in the 2nd, OL in the 3rd. DB in 4th. 
 

Sign a FS and MLB and Winston/Mariota in FA. 
 

Roll some $$ into 2023. 
 

Enter 2023 even more stacked at talent for the long haul and then offer your multiple 1’s for a QB. 

[samy316]

26 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Ron's first year, IMO, gets a pass because of Snyder essentially handcuffing him to Haskins.  But signing 38 year old Ryan Fitzpatrick to be your starter in year two without a potential starter waiting in the wings?!  He has this year to fix that, but to me, that is unforgivable.  

True, that’s exactly my thinking as well.  If you take out Ron’s first year due to Haskins, everything else has been questionable at best to nonsensical regarding the QB position.  That’s why he’s desperate this year to get a QB, because last year was such a botch.  If he had drafted a QB last year, he might have given Snyder an excuse to extend him beyond his 5 year deal, because a rookie QB requires 2-3 years of grooming to get them to that franchise level.  It also lengthens your job security to an extent.

[Zim489]

12 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

We could probably offer those 2 picks, a second, and a future #1in 2024 to get to #1.

I don’t see any scenario where we get to number one. Most teams in this position of day Jax got 1.1 again they generally don’t like dropping that far. 

[kingdaddy]

3 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

But if you were offered 20 and 2023 1st from Pittsburgh you take it if Willis is there and you don’t believe in him. Grab a stud WR at 20, get a TE in the 2nd, OL in the 3rd. DB in 4th. 

This is the scenario I posted a week or so ago. If the Steelers offer us two 1sts to move up to get Willis I would do that deal to get into prime position for next years QB crop coming out. 

At #20 I'd take best available playmaker on either side of the ball. Either that or I might even try to trade back again from #20 and pick up additional picks if there's no one there we have to have. 

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, samy316 said:

If he had drafted a QB last year, he might have given Snyder an excuse to extend him beyond his 5 year deal, because a rookie QB requires 2-3 years of grooming to get them to that franchise level.  It also lengthens your job security to an extent.

 

When we picked, there really weren't any quarterbacks worth taking.  Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor, Mitch Trubisky, and Jameis Winston were all available last year...and they picked Fitzpatrick.  

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

nter 2023 even more stacked at talent for the long haul and then offer your multiple 1’s for a QB

The issue is still going to be availability. It would take so many things to fall into place to get one of the top guys. First we need at least 1 guys coming up. Probably multiple. There’s going to be so many more teams needing QBs next year via draft. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

This is the scenario I posted a week or so ago. If the Steelers offer us two 1sts to move up to get Willis I would do that deal to get into prime position for next years QB crop coming out. 

At #20 I'd take best available playmaker on either side of the ball. Either that or I might even try to trade back again from #20 and pick up additional picks if there's no one there we have to have. 

It’s a great strategy if the FO doesn’t like Willis a lot. Hell they might even prefer Corral or Ridder and say let’s trade back to 20 and see what happens. Maybe they take Corral there. Or Ridder. Or they just say screw it we have a good team. Let’s load up the offense and see what happens with a Tier II QB. 
 

There’s also a chance the Watson situation is still unresolved. Doubtful. But in case it is, you now have the ability to load up on offensive talent and have an extra 2023 1st to offer for Watson if the situation resolves after the draft. 
 

Imagine adding Chris Olave, Jaylen Wydermeyer in Round 1-2 … a FA MLB and FS. And then after the draft trading next years 1’s for Watson. There would need to be some cap finagling to fit him in but that would be wild. 

[Est.1974]

Feels to me like we’re all in on Wilson first and foremost, and we may think that still has some ground to run. Until that is officially dead, all else is on hold. After that, it is about deciding on Watson. Mayhew is clear we want elite level QB play. Will that situation clear up any in the next 7 days?  Big drop off after that.

 

Something has to give in the next few days though. The gates are about to open on FA very soon....

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

prime position

Except we won’t be. Unlikely to be enough options given the number of teams picking. Teams not liking to drop from top 5-7 to late teens. They generally like to move back a couple spots. 
 

I think this scenario about 2023 producing a good QB prospect for this team is less likely than taking one of the QBs at 11. 

[Est.1974]

Rivera wants a QB this year. End of story. He can’t afford to go through year 3 with that question still unanswered. 

[MrJL]

20 minutes ago, samy316 said:

True, that’s exactly my thinking as well.  If you take out Ron’s first year due to Haskins, everything else has been questionable at best to nonsensical regarding the QB position.  That’s why he’s desperate this year to get a QB, because last year was such a botch.  If he had drafted a QB last year, he might have given Snyder an excuse to extend him beyond his 5 year deal, because a rookie QB requires 2-3 years of grooming to get them to that franchise level.  It also lengthens your job security to an extent.

 

Haskins makes nothing he's done nonsensical to me.  You don't pass on Chase Young when you've gt a first round QB your team owner wants you to try in 2020.  And they tried everything they could to get a QB in 2021

[markmills67]

13 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Feels to me like we’re all in on Wilson first and foremost, and we may think that still has some ground to run. Until that is officially dead, all else is on hold. After that, it is about deciding on Watson. Mayhew is clear we want elite level QB play. Will that situation clear up any in the next 7 days?  Big drop off after that.

 

Something has to give in the next few days though. The gates are about to open on FA very soon....

Good Post, I would make 1 final offer to the seahawks for Wilson, if there answer is no we move on. We have 1 week until the start of free agency and we need to know where we stand. 

[DJHJR86]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Rivera wants a QB this year. End of story. He can’t afford to go through year 3 with that question still unanswered. 

 

IMO, drafting a QB at 11 gives him the remainder of his contract.  Pickett is the most NFL ready QB.  His first 4 years scare me, but I think he's the best of the bunch.  

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Are you really trying to revive this argument?

 

Pages and pages of this thread have recently been dedicated to this very argument.  I, myself, have taken the bait and been part of it.  There's a few other people in the entire world, and they happen to post here - @kingdaddy & @zCommander that agree with you.  The rest of the world is like:

 

 

 

Wait what? lol

I am anti Turbs and luke warm to Mariota though. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

IMO, drafting a QB at 11 gives him the remainder of his contract.  Pickett is the most NFL ready QB.  His first 4 years scare me, but I think he's the best of the bunch.  

Yeah I think outside of bagging a premier vet, going QB at 11 becomes almost essential. I don’t see how he can sit and wait until #42. Maybe require a move back up from there into the first. Maybe.
 

Keep changing my view of who I’d take. Feels like they really like Willis and Ridder. I think I’m almost passed caring which particular rookie we would take. As long as we are proactive/aggressive in getting a fix in place. Then you put the leg work in to make it successful.

 

All of the questions on the vet market still remain unanswered though. Plenty could happen this week. Or maybe nothing happens 

[MrJL]

6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

IMO, drafting a QB at 11 gives him the remainder of his contract.  Pickett is the most NFL ready QB.  His first 4 years scare me, but I think he's the best of the bunch.  

 

and you think that's the QB to draft?  He's a fifth year senior and only been good for one year.  That's the guy to hang everything on

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Definitely a gamble. But in my scenario we go into 2023 with our #1 and Pittsburgh’s #1. Let’s assume we both finish around picks 15-24. We could probably offer those 2 picks, a second, and a future #1in 2024 to get to #1. But yeah, you’d need to luck out and have someone like Jacksonville get that pick again which is unlikely. Texans, Lions, Giants … they’re taking a QB. 
 

But that’s not to say next years class couldn’t have 3-4 top end guys like 2021 and you can get one by moving up to 3-5.

 

It’s all a massive gamble. But as I was saying initially as my point, IF this front office doesn’t see a sure fire guy in this draft I’m okay with them loading up on talent and trying again next year and hoping to strike gold with a Winston/Mariota for a year. Or even a Jimmy G. 
 

My gut says that’s not the likely path though. My guess is we trade 3 #1’s for Watson or draft Willis or Corral at 11. 

 

 

The "sure fire" guys rarely are in play for trades.  That's my key point.  So the odds are much greater that we are looking at the 2nd class of the 2023 draft like we normally are in a draft class.  We rarely shop in the Tiffany's aisle of the QBs in the draft, we are typically shopping in that next tier.

 

This draft on paper at QB isn't a hot one but we are uniquely equipped to possibly fish from the first class of the 2022 draft.  The first class is a change for us even in a perceived down year for QBs.

 

If so the likely weighting of how it plays out is does the 2nd class of the 2023 draft beat the first class of the 2022 draft?  Having watched some of the 2nd class of the 2023 draft, my bet right now is on the 2022 first class is actually better than the 2023 2nd class.  And at a very minimum its not a slam dunk that you want to bet on the 2nd class 2023 guys over the first class of the 2022 guys.   It's far from a no brainer play the odds type of move IMO. 

 

And as much as you say and I've said the same plenty of times that its possible for a dude to emerge out of nowhere out of a class ala Zach Wilson 2 years ago, it also happens just as much that a dude that isn't ballyhooed from a specific class ends up very good in the pros.

 

I am not opposed to trading down at all.   I actually like the idea in a vaccum. My opposition would be to punt on the 2022 QB class -- I hate the idea.  The good news for me is I don't get the impression even a little that they intend to punt on this class.

 

Listening to Keim this morning, I just caught up with that interview, and I just listened to the beginning of the Standig podcast from today.    I get the impression that they do this:

 

A.  Trubisky or Bridgewater

B.  Trubisky with a 2nd-3rd round QB.  Bridgewater with the first round QB

C.  They are willing to swing again in 2023 -- that's from Keim

D.  Top targets:  Malik and Pickett

 

IMO while I don't hate the idea of a 2nd-3rd QB.  I only like it under this premise.

 

A.  They see the top 6 QBs as very close so they are willing to risk it

B.  If they pass on a first round QB while I won't criticize them in real time for doing it, I'll let it play out, if they prove to be wrong and they again pass on a hey what happened here, Justin Herbert type of rise from a QB in the first round -- Rivera has to wear that one as a big time failure.  That to me is a roll of the dice on his end. 

 

If he passes on a Qb in the first round and they end up good, I'll join the stragglers on this thread who are currently IMO trashing Rivera prematurely.  I'll let the script run but if he ends up wrong, I'll be ripping him too especially because I do like the perceived first round QB better than the 2nd rounders, I spent a lot of time watching these guys so my opinions on them are pretty hard and will see if I am right or wrong but for example if Rivera decided to pass on Corral for Ridder -- and I already think Corral >>> Ridder, I am not going to give him a pass if Corral emerges and Ridder fails.  But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until it plays out. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

29 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Feels to me like we’re all in on Wilson first and foremost, and we may think that still has some ground to run. Until that is officially dead, all else is on hold. After that, it is about deciding on Watson. Mayhew is clear we want elite level QB play. Will that situation clear up any in the next 7 days?  Big drop off after that.

 

Something has to give in the next few days though. The gates are about to open on FA very soon....

 

I don't think FA is much of a door closer when it comes to acquiring a higher tier QB.

 

Even if we devote 10ish Mil to somebody at the start of FA just so we have something on the roster, that wont stop us from further reacquiring one of the better QBs should they come available down the line. That person we acquire might even be a bargaining chip in the process.

 

Gotta pick somebody up in FA, but I don't see that as locking us off from major trades down the line.

 

The bigger issue is you can't bring someone in w/ the promise of handing them the starting job if your planning to continue to scan the trade market. That could scare off some QBs who would rather go somewhere they are promised to start.

 

[Redskins 2021]

 I could see Bridgewater/Pickett as most likely. With possibly of Watson if everything criminally works out which sounds like 50/50. I think we will have are choice if Qb.

 

I do think Wilson will move next year this will probably be Carroll last year then rebuild.  If Watson is suspended for the year would we still be willing to trade for him?

 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Redskins 2021