The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

6 hours ago, zCommander said:

The GM did say TH will provide fierce competition but they have to still look for a QB. And they should. Have to check off the boxes on the QB list. Even teams like the Browns, the Falcons, the Seahawks, the Eagles, the Giants, the Packers, to name a few, have to check the QB boxes. 

Mathew’s comments were great.  He praised TH effusively, said he got a “field promotion” because the starter only played 16 snaps, and he worked hard and did I his best.   And then said they had to upgrade the position and there were three ways they were looking to do that.  
 

If you’re paying attention, he just said out loud TH was not in the plans to start.  
 

He MIGHT start another game due to injury, like he did last year.  But that’s the only way he will see the field again.  
 

They view Mitch, Marcus, Winston, Dalton and Teddy as upgrades.  And last year they saw Fitz as a clear starter that TH never challenged. 
 

Which tells you all you need know about TH’s position.  They love him as a backup or third string QB.  And they would love to never see him play. Not because they don’t like him, but they think all of the other guys allow them to run more of the offense and have more success.  
 

It is what it is.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I’ve seen reports (or, maybe “reports”) that the team called the chiefs about Patrick mahomes availability. 
 

please tell me this team isn’t stupid enough to waste their time with that, why would the chiefs even humor that idea?? 

 

You can have a conversation with someone about more than 1 topic.

 

 

[IrepDC]

Rivera is making comparisons between Willis and Newton after combine interviews today.. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mathew’s comments were great.  He praised TH effusively, said he got a “field promotion” because the starter only played 16 snaps, and he worked hard and did I his best.   And then said they had to upgrade the position and there were three ways they were looking to do that.  
 

If you’re paying attention, he just said out loud TH was not in the plans to start.  
 

He MIGHT start another game due to injury, like he did last year.  But that’s the only way he will see the field again.  
 

They view Mitch, Marcus, Winston, Dalton and Teddy as upgrades.  And last year they saw Fitz as a clear starter that TH never challenged. 
 

Which tells you all you need know about TH’s position.  They love him as a backup or third string QB.  And they would love to never see him play. Not because they don’t like him, but they think all of the other guys allow them to run more of the offense and have more success.  
 

It is what it is.  

 

Beat writers also thought there was a noticeable difference between what Fitz could do and what TH could do in training camp. It's not just the staff who thought TH should've remained a backup.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Just now, IrepDC said:

Rivera is making comparisons between Willis and Newton after combine interviews today.. 

 

Uh oh.  Not quite a fan of that.  Newton had questions coming out of college but accolades alone put Newton in a different category.  Newton carried Auburn to a College Championship.  Willis kind of folded when he played ranked competition.

[Redskins 2021]

I dont think Wentz is an option anymore. I think they just found out how hard getting a qb is.

[Cooleyfan1993]

9 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

You can have a conversation with someone about more than 1 topic.

 

 

Ok…..? But the “reports” were about QB availability, not any other topics. What else would they have called about, the weather? 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Still think the combo of a 1st round reclamation and a 1st round pick is the most likely option. Winston/Mariota/Trubisky/Wentz + either Corral or Willis at #11 if they're there.

 

I could also see a scenario where Willis goes to Carolina and Corral to Denver, leaving Washington in a position to trade down from #11. In that scenario, they could target Carson Strong in the late 1st, while adding some draft capital.

[kingdaddy]

 

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

PFF's Mike Renner QB ranking arm strength alone 

 

1. Willis

2. Howell

3. Strong

4. Corral 

5. Ridder

6. Zappe

7. Pickett

Glad you posted this, when I see highlights of Pickett his arm strength doesn't jump out to me. In fact, if I had to pick from this list as to which guy has the chance to be most like Justin Herbert I would go with Corral. But I think he'd need a year or two to learn the league before being an impact QB. 

[mistertim]

6 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

I see you keep on saying that but you are not thinking all the way through like I am. You have to have a starting QB first to get hurt. Right now the "the big fish" is not going to happen. So from the the B list TH is still slightly better than them. Then you have your draft pick. If he shines and is ready to go then yes that would be ideal.

 

The name change and a new shiny QB to lead the team would allow Dan to sell more jerseys and get peoples butts in the seats. I think lot of people are overlooking this very critical part of the business and concentrate on the Xs and the Os as if that is the only thing that is happening with the coaches. This is why the coaches are hesitant to even bring up Taylor's name as they have a directive from the top. The team owners needs to be able to sell more jerseys and get more peoples butts in the seats. Everyone gets excited when they see new stuff. 

 

The GM did say TH will provide fierce competition but they have to still look for a QB. And they should. Have to check off the boxes on the QB list. Even teams like the Browns, the Falcons, the Seahawks, the Eagles, the Giants, the Packers, to name a few, have to check the QB boxes. 

 

I really like Ron and don't really want him to make a pressured decision. 

 

This is borderline conspiracy theory thinking. So the only reason the coaches don't even bring up Heinicke's name is not because they don't see him as a starting NFL QB at all...it's because there were directives from the top to not talk about him?

 

And I there's probably almost no GM or coach out there who believes that Heinicke is better than Mariota, Trubisky or whatever other name is on the B list. Clearly our coaching staff doesn't think Heinicke is as good (let alone better), otherwise they wouldn't be bothering with possibly getting one of those guys.

 

Heinicke is simply not part of their plans outside of being their QB2 (or possibly QB3 if they also draft a rookie).

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Beat writers also thought there was a noticeable difference between what Fitz could do and what TH could do in training camp. It's not just the staff who thought TH should've remained a backup.

Screw the staff.  I posted an Instagram video where TH and Fotz were throwing the same pass, a deep out, at rhe same time.  They took the snap, 5 step drop, plant and throw.  Fitz threw left, TH to the right.  
 

It was in unison, so you could easily compare. 
 

One of them had an NFL arm and drive the ball to the receiver. 
 

The other threw a floating moon ball which took about .3 seconds more to get to the receiver.

 

You didn’t even have to be an NFL coach 

to see the difference.  It was obvious to anybody who’s ever watched anybody throw any ball ever in any sport.  
 

I commend him for doing the best he could do.  But his ceiling is low because he just doesn’t allow the offense to run a full playbook. He can make SOME of the harder throws from a clean pocket when he can really step into the throw.   It he doesn’t have the arm to do it consistently, and really doesn’t if there is a messy pocket.  

[Est.1974]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

One source told ESPN that the Commanders had compiled an initial lengthy list of around 40 quarterbacks to at least discuss or investigate, including those in college.

40??? 
 

Hell we’ve gone around in circles on ES discussing the same half a dozen for 6 months 

[zCommander]

47 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Because he was a backup and the starter got hurt after 16 plays.

 

Lets nit forget he didn’t even pose a threat to Fitz on training camp.  He never got starter reps.  He didn’t get the opportunity to start a preseason game.  He was also a backup.  
 

Josh Allen and Carr stayed healthy.  That’s the only reason they didn’t play.  Fits got hurt.  And never came back.  
 

Please tell me you understand TH was a distant backup all off season and if Fitz hadn’t gotten hurt he never would have played.  I really hope your reality lines up the that actual reality.  

 

And yet Ron stayed with Taylor in the last game when it didn't matter and could have started Allen instead to see what he could do...hmmmmm

17 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is borderline conspiracy theory thinking. So the only reason the coaches don't even bring up Heinicke's name is not because they don't see him as a starting NFL QB at all...it's because there were directives from the top to not talk about him?

 

And I there's probably almost no GM or coach out there who believes that Heinicke is better than Mariota, Trubisky or whatever other name is on the B list. Clearly our coaching staff doesn't think Heinicke is as good (let alone better), otherwise they wouldn't be bothering with possibly getting one of those guys.

 

Heinicke is simply not part of their plans outside of being their QB2 (or possibly QB3 if they also draft a rookie).

 

Maybe because I own my own business and have to think about the whole business and not just part of the business so no not a conspiracy at all. I think at a different level than some fans. 

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What exactly do you guys expect them to do?

 

Not inquire about Mahomes availability from the Chiefs, for one.  If that's true...not a good look.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Not inquire about Mahomes availability from the Chiefs, for one.  If that's true...not a good look.  

Sounds too silly to be true, but harmless even if it is.  I don’t see how it hurts to convey how serious you are about making a deal for a QB, by calling every single GM in the league and making that known.

[Warhead36]

Willis can't sniff Newton's jock strap. Before going to Auburn, Newton won a D1-AA or whatever its called national title. Then he won a national title with Auburn, playing in the toughest conference in the nation. Dude was dominant at every level. Willis played at freaking Liberty and struggled mightily at times. That guy is closer to Deshone Kizer, EJ Manuel, and Jake Locker than he is Cam Newton. 

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sounds too silly to be true, but harmless even if it is.  I don’t see how it hurts to convey how serious you are about making a deal for a QB, by calling every single GM in the league and making that known.

Yeah it wasn't a serious call. My guess is Rivera and Reid, who are old pals and go way back, were just having a conversation and Rivera jokingly asked "so what would it take to acquire Mahomes hardy har har". Kyle Shanahan did the same thing last year when inquiring with Matt Lafleur about Aaron Rodgers.

[Koolblue13]

Us drafting a QB this year, with sites on the 23 draft for the big swing makes perfect sense. The one thing we're lacking in any QB trade talks is another QB to trade with. A rookie that looks good with room to grow is a great bargaining chip. If the 22 rookie exceeds expectations, it's a huge win.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

33 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Ok…..? But the “reports” were about QB availability, not any other topics. What else would they have called about, the weather? 

 

Sure.  Rivera coached under Andy Reid, I don't know if there are other FO connections to Kansas City, but having a chit chat isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

As for football related stuff, there's plenty to talk about with other FO's. It's not a stretch of the imagination, especially now during draft season, to think of other topics in a phone call.

[mistertim]

21 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Maybe because I own my own business and have to think about the whole business and not just part of the business so no not a conspiracy at all. I think at a different level than some fans. 

 

So your contention is that Dan went to Rivera and said "I hereby order you to never mention Taylor Heiniciek's name when doing interviews"?

 

Seriously? You honestly don't think it's possible that they just don't think of him at all when it comes to the starting QB situation? It has to be the more complex explanation? 

[zCommander]

58 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mathew’s comments were great.  He praised TH effusively, said he got a “field promotion” because the starter only played 16 snaps, and he worked hard and did I his best.   And then said they had to upgrade the position and there were three ways they were looking to do that.  
 

If you’re paying attention, he just said out loud TH was not in the plans to start.  
 

He MIGHT start another game due to injury, like he did last year.  But that’s the only way he will see the field again.  
 

They view Mitch, Marcus, Winston, Dalton and Teddy as upgrades.  And last year they saw Fitz as a clear starter that TH never challenged. 
 

Which tells you all you need know about TH’s position.  They love him as a backup or third string QB.  And they would love to never see him play. Not because they don’t like him, but they think all of the other guys allow them to run more of the offense and have more success.  
 

It is what it is. 

 

Fitz was not going to be up ended by a backup no matter what since he was paid 10 mil to start. So TH not beating out Fitz is pretty much irrelevant.

 

As for Mitch, Marcus, Winston, Dalton and Teddy I still see Taylor slightly better than them when you look at pass completion %. 

 

Draft a rookie and TH as the backup. Not sure what they are going to do with Allen or Fitz.

 

I have said this before as well. Maybe they resign Fitz for another year if no better option shakes out. I would imagine that is still an option right now.

[DJHJR86]

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-quarterback-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2020-quarterback-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-pff-rankings-nfl-starting-quarterback-rankings-for-2019

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-final-list-of-pffs-highest-graded-quarterbacks-in-the-nfl-in-2018

 

Heinicke was ranked only higher than rookies, Goff, Darnold, and Roethlisberger.  In his last year as a starter, Trubisky was ranked 32nd out of 35 by PFF in their final 2020 rankings.  In 2019, Winston and Mariota were 21st and 22nd, respectively.  Trubisky was 26th that year.  Trubisky was 30th in 2018.  Mariota was 17th, and Winston was 22nd.  If Ron wants a 2nd "veteran" on the roster, they have Kyle Allen potentially.  If they draft a ready to start rookie at 11 overall, or trade up to get one, there is no point, IMO, of bringing in Trubisky, Mariota, or Winston.  

[mistertim]

I'm not sure why some are trying to convince people on a message board that Heinicke is just as good if not better than Trubisky, Mariota, Winson, etc when it's pretty much crystal clear that the Commanders coaching staff doesn't agree.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

I'm not sure why some are trying to convince people on a message board that Heinicke is just as good if not better than Trubisky, Mariota, Winson, etc when it's pretty much crystal clear that the Commanders coaching staff doesn't agree.

Yeah it’s quite disturbing isn’t it.

[DJHJR86]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm not sure why some are trying to convince people on a message board that Heinicke is just as good if not better than Trubisky, Mariota, Winson, etc when it's pretty much crystal clear that the Commanders coaching staff doesn't agree.

 

And if they don't sign any of the three...then what?  

[mistertim]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

 

And if they don't sign any of the three...then what?  

 

I think the whole point is that Heinicke is basically option Z. If literally every other possibility falls through then he'd probably start by default. And it's unlikely that they won't be able to get anyone. But in the very unlikely event that it happens, then Heinicke could start.