The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

 

If I were the Steelers, I'd go Carson Strong over Davis Mills.  Strong IMO has the better arm and accuracy.   Playing in that division, a big arm helps when the weatger gets cold. 

 

My pause about Carsons are injuries and mobiliy.  Yet Davis Mills while isn't as much of a concern on those fronts but its close.  Mills with 2 ACL tears already and other issues with left knee.  And Mills isn't slow like Strong but he isn't that mobile either.

 

Also the way the Steelers seem to think, i'd think they'd roll the dice on the higher ceiling QB, that's clearly Strong IMO over Mills.  Granted there is always a crap shoot aspect to this considering Strong hasn't played yet.  But no guts no glory. 😀

Edited January 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I were the Steelers, I'd go Carson Strong over Davis Mills.  Strong IMO has the better arm and accuracy.   Playing in that division, a big arm helps when the weatger gets cold. 

 

My pause about Carsons are injuries and mobiliy.  Yet Davis Mills while isn't as much of a concern on those fronts but its close.  Mills with 2 ACL tears already and other issues with left knee.  And Mills isn't slow like Strong but he isn't that mobile either.

 

Also the way the Steelers seem to think, i'd think they'd roll the dice on the higher ceiling QB, that's clearly Strong IMO over Mills.  Granted there is always a crap shoot aspect to this considering Strong hasn't played yet.  But no guts no glory. 😀

Steelers are another team want veteran to go with a rookie.

[method man]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If I were the Steelers, I'd go Carson Strong over Davis Mills.  Strong IMO has the better arm and accuracy.   Playing in that division, a big arm helps when the weatger gets cold. 

 

My pause about Carsons are injuries and mobiliy.  Yet Davis Mills while isn't as much of a concern on those fronts but its close.  Mills with 2 ACL tears already and other issues with left knee.  And Mills isn't slow like Strong but he isn't that mobile either.

 

Also the way the Steelers seem to think, i'd think they'd roll the dice on the higher ceiling QB, that's clearly Strong IMO over Mills.  Granted there is always a crap shoot aspect to this considering Strong hasn't played yet.  But no guts no glory. 😀

 

Carson also played outside the Power 5. While Strong has more upside, Mills has a much higher floor.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I like Sheehan’s comp of Kirk Cousins but with better intangibles. Mills’s performance with just 11 college starts is what is impressive to me. I also look at how much better he looks now vs early in the season. I expect that he will continue to progress in the mental aspect of the game given his trajectory thus far and because of the Stanford background. There is value in Mills giving you average starter play on a 3rd round rookie deal for 3 more years. 

 

Sheehan pumped up Mills?  I missed that.  But as i've made the point in other posts while I like Sheehan, he's far from earned my trust in evaluating QBs.

 

I hear you about Mills, you seem jazzed about him.  I spent too many hours watching him to be convinced in a debate here to change my mind about him.  And his numbers, which actually aren't that hot, don't really move me even factoring him playing better at the end of the season. 

 

His ceiling to me is too low.   My gut is he's not as good as Kirk.  I compared Mac Jones (someone that Sheehan wasn't high on at least compared to Trask) to Kirk with a better clutch gene.   As for Mills being that guy.  I doubt it.  But will see.   I could totally see him being pedestrian.  He IMO has average talent.   It would fit, him ending up one of those Andy Dalton 18-22 type of guys.  The fact that he like Mac Jones did better than the other rookies doesn't surprise me.  Stanford runs a pro system. 

 

If they traded for him, I wouldn't have a fit about it like if they traded for Darnold.  I'd think "meh".  He's OK.  And at least we won't suck at QB.  It would be a very vanilla move IMO.  I get the narrative that he's young so maybe he's ascending.  But the reason why I can't jump on that bandwagon is IMHO he doesn't have a high ceiling talent.  If I thought he was a Joe Burrow type as for pocket presence and accuracy then maybe I'd get jazzed.  But I don't see him like that.  But will see maybe i end up wrong. 

 

I am going back and forth on Pickett, I like him more than I don't but i am having a hard time falling hard for him so far.  I like him but don't love him.   My concern about him is his ceiling.  Yet, IMO this Mills talk helps talk me more into Pickett because IMO Pickett's ceiling is distinctly higher than Mills.

 

I like Howell more than most.  Some here see him as QB #1, I wouldn't go that far myself but I'd be cool with him at 11.  Howell can make some wicked throws that shows off his arm -- some beauty speed outs/deep outs, go/corner routes.  He can even do it off his back foot.   Mills IMO doesn't have Howell's arm talent. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan pumped up Mills?  I missed that.  But as i've made the point in other posts while I like Sheehan, he's far from earned my trust in evaluating QBs.

 

I hear you about Mills, you seem jazzed about him.  I spent too many hours watching him to be convinced in a debate here to change my mind about him.  And his numbers, which actually aren't that hot, don't really move me even factoring him playing better at the end of the season. 

 

His ceiling too me is too low.   My gut is he's not as good as Kirk.  I compared Mac Jones (someone that Sheehan wasn't high on at least compared to Trask) to Kirk with a better clutch gene.   As for Mills being that guy.  I doubt it.  But will see.   I could totally see him being pedestrian.  He IMO has average talent.   It would fit.  The fact that he like Mac Jones did better than the other rookies doesn't surprise me.  Stanford runs a pro system. 

 

If they traded for him, I wouldn't have a fit about it like if they traded for Darnold.  I'd think "meh".  He's OK.  And at least we won't suck at QB.  It would be a very vanilla move IMO.  I get the narrative that he's young so maybe he's ascending.  But the reason why I can't jump on that bandwagon is IMHO he doesn't have high ceiling talent.  If I thought he was a Joe Burrow type as for pocket presence and accuracy then maybe I'd get jazzed.  But I don't see him like that.  But will see maybe i end up wrong. 

 

I am going back and forth on Pickett, I like him more than I don't but i am having a hard time falling hard for him so far.  Like him but don't love him.   My concern about him is his ceiling.  Yet, IMO this Mills talk helps talk me more into Pickett because IMO Pickett's ceiling is distinctly higher than Mills.

 

I like Howell more than most.  Some here see him as QB #1, I wouldn't go that far myself but I'd be cool with him at 11.  Howell can make some wicked throws that shows off his arm -- some beauty speed outs/deep outs, go/corner routes.  He can even do it off his back foot.   Mills IMO doesn't have Howell's arm talent. 

 

I agree with you that Mills has average physical talent but he is not lacking in any area. I think his above average tool could be his cerebral nature but we obviously don't spend time with him. Assuming he plays like a league average QB, that is great value on a rookie deal. However, would I want to pay him big money once his rookie deal is up? That would make me nervous.

 

Again, the reason I'd think about a move for Mills if he were to become available is because we have seen something of a floor at the NFL level, which is very important as we don't really know what the floors of any of the guys in this draft are

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Carson also played outside the Power 5. While Strong has more upside, Mills has a much higher floor.

 

Not sure about the much higher floor.  I'll give that Mills has played in the NFL and Carson hasn't.  Some rookies just crap the bed and just end up stinking.  And that's possible with any of these guys in this college crop.    Carson is a pretty competitive guy so I'd be surprised if he crapped the bed.  But its possible.  Will see.   

 

I agree about the high floor with Mills.  Giving him the high floor category might be generous.  It would be ignoring his 2 ACL and left knee issues.  He's not the fastest guy as is.  What happens if he has to deal with ACL #3?  But lets say he doesn't have those injury concerns ala Carson Strong.  A healthy Mills with a healhy knee would be high floor/low ceiling IMO, mostly pedestrain QB play. 

 

Trying to think of a good comp based on my opinion.  A slightly stronger arm but slower Andy Dalton.   If our goal is to be in that 8-9-9-8 range for the next 4 years, I think he'd be the perfect guy.

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, method man said:

 

I agree with you that Mills has average physical talent but he is not lacking in any area. I think his above average tool could be his cerebral nature but we obviously don't spend time with him. Assuming he plays like a league average QB, that is great value on a rookie deal. However, would I want to pay him big money once his rookie deal is up? That would make me nervous.

 

Again, the reason I'd think about a move for Mills if he were to become available is because we have seen something of a floor at the NFL level, which is very important as we don't really know what the floors of any of the guys in this draft are

 

I get your point but we aren't going anywhere IMO with pedestrian talent at the QB spot even if its on the cheap.  The PFF article I posted here yesterday I think brings the point home well, just keep swinging until you get that guy.

 

It's not about having cheap talent at QB but having a good but preferably great QB on the cheap. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Jds0912]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

You sign the bridge in case you screw up the rookie part. I don’t think Heinicke is as good as any of the three of the group of Mariota/Trubisky/Bridgewater, personally.

 

I also think you’re ruling out our best bet at rookie QB in Sam Howell. Though I like Corral quite a bit. 
 

But we need to get a high end vet, or a bridge + rookie. If the rookie is ready the bridge is a backup. So many backups played this year they’ll likely be forced into duty. 
 

I think the only points we are opposed on:

 

-Heinicke being better than Trubisky/Mariota/Bridgewater

 

-Strategy to go with a Rookie draft choice.

I’m not much on Howell bc he’s a little shorter than I like for a pocket passer and he wasn’t even top 3 in his own conference this year. Maybe you’re right though and he’s the best qb in this class. Time will tell

[Skinsinparadise]

This seems like SF leaking things to the press to fill an agenda.  This is the 2nd bout of this, they did this weeks ago too.  the Shanny's are good at using the media, especially Schefter, to push an agenda.

 

I think SF is in a weird place.  Trey Lance arguably hasn't shown yet that he could be the guy yet they traded the moon for him.  you would think Kyle can't just keep Lance on the bench while justifying that trade.

 

So I am guessing they might have a two pronged goal here.  Find an excuse to keep Jimmy G by saying no one offered the big compensation that would justify the trade or they do get big compensation which they can use to justify the Lance trade including who knows maybe even doubling down and taking another QB 2nd-3rd round or so - which would feel very RG3-Kirk.

 

Whatever their game is, no way I'd want to give up big compensation for Jimmy G.  I don't dislike Jimmy G.  If he were a FA, fine.  But IMO he doesn't warrant big compensation in a trade. 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Jds0912 said:

I’m not much on Howell bc he’s a little shorter than I like for a pocket passer and he wasn’t even top 3 in his own conference this year. Maybe you’re right though and he’s the best qb in this class. Time will tell

He ran for nearly 1000 yards this year. He’s not really a pocket passer. Though he’s more of that than Willis and Corral.

[Jds0912]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

He ran for nearly 1000 yards this year. He’s not really a pocket passer. Though he’s more of that than Willis and Corral.

Yeah he’s not going to be running for 1,000 in the nfl. Not even close. He’s nowhere near as athletic as Willis. 

[KDawg]

Just now, Jds0912 said:

Yeah he’s not going to be running for 1,000 in the nfl. Not even close. He’s nowhere near as athletic as Willis. 

I never claimed he would. And he’s no where near the athlete that Willis is. He’s also clunkier when he runs than Willis or Corral. His change of direction is near negative. But he can run and get out of dodge if he has to. He’s not a pocket passing statue. Dude has some giddy up. 

[Jds0912]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I never claimed he would. And he’s no where near the athlete that Willis is. He’s also clunkier when he runs than Willis or Corral. His change of direction is near negative. But he can run and get out of dodge if he has to. He’s not a pocket passing statue. Dude has some giddy up. 

If he’s gonna be the best qb in this class like you think he is, it will be from moving the ball through the air from the pocket. His legs will be a near zero threat to nfl teams. So if he’s not a pocket passer then I’d say he’s definitely not going to be the best qb in this class. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I am firmly in the trade for Mills group.

 

Bold statement: Mills operates post-snap the closest to Peyton Manning than anyone I can think of.

 

Problem with evaluating Mills: You can not evaluate him without All-22 film.  TV angles do not show you what's happening.  I thought nothing of Mills as a college prospect until I saw some All-22 of him in college.

 

Drake London at 11, Samuel in the slot, Terry all over.  Trade a 2nd on Mills.  That offense would be such a surprise.

 

Mills player comp is not Tom Brady, he's not Joe Burrow, he's not Eli Manning, he's not Matthew Stafford.  His comp is Peyton.

 

Peyton had a whole mess of other things he did well to help his style of operating.  Mills is developing along that route but there's obviously a large amount to go.  The difference between Mills now and prime Peyton is massive.  But that's the ceiling.

 

He was the best rookie QB in a highly touted if disappointing rookie class.  I'm expecting growth from the whole class, including Mills in year 2.

 

[DWinzit]

Mills has lots of potential. I would welcome a Mills/Heinicke/Howell or Corral competition. Hopefully a trade would include a player allowing us to keep draft capital

 

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Jds0912 said:

If he’s gonna be the best qb in this class like you think he is, it will be from moving the ball through the air from the pocket. His legs will be a near zero threat to nfl teams. So if he’s not a pocket passer then I’d say he’s definitely not going to be the best qb in this class. 

You’re really trying to nitpick and choose what words you latch on to and it’s a fairly annoying debate style. 
 

But I’ll bite. He can move. He’s not a pocket passer in the sense he’s a statue. He can move enough to use his legs to get out of problems and issues. He’s not going to be a running quarterback in the NFL.

 

This is essentially saying the same thing I said in the last post that you saw what you wanted to see from it. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

We’re fine if Heinicke is back as a bridge. You could keep Gilbert around as your 3rd. No reason to draft 2 QB

Howling have we been searching for a franchise QB? And you say there’s no reason to draft 2?

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Heinicke is a great value as a QB.

He’s just not a starter, he needs more things to go right for him to succeed. That’s why he’s  ok, he would be a high value backup.

He has value only as a backup and spot starter for a veteran QB.

 

If you’re trying to create a game plan for him as a starter, you’ve failed.

 

He cannot be a guy you count on to start.  Ever. He just doesn’t have the tools to do it.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I am firmly in the trade for Mills group.

 

Bold statement: Mills operates post-snap the closest to Peyton Manning than anyone I can think of.

 

Problem with evaluating Mills: You can not evaluate him without All-22 film.  TV angles do not show you what's happening.  I thought nothing of Mills as a college prospect until I saw some All-22 of him in college.

 

 

Because he actviely directs and redirects protections?  If so others do that.  For exampe, If you watch enough Carson Strong enough in real time, he does a ton of it too.

Edited January 16, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Jds0912]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

You’re really trying to nitpick and choose what words you latch on to and it’s a fairly annoying debate style. 
 

But I’ll bite. He can move. He’s not a pocket passer in the sense he’s a statue. He can move enough to use his legs to get out of problems and issues. He’s not going to be a running quarterback in the NFL.

 

This is essentially saying the same thing I said in the last post that you saw what you wanted to see from it. 

If he’s going to be good in the nfl it will be from the pocket. I just said he’s a little shorter than I like for an nfl pocket passer, not much though. My main concern is he fell off a little this year and wasn’t even one of the best qbs in his own conference. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Jds0912 said:

If he’s going to be good in the nfl it will be from the pocket. I just said he’s a little shorter than I like for an nfl pocket passer, not much though. My main concern is he fell off a little this year and wasn’t even one of the best qbs in his own conference. 

By what metric was he not one of the best QBs in his conference? I’m not denying your opinion. Just trying to understand your stance.

[Jds0912]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

By what metric was he not one of the best QBs in his conference? I’m not denying your opinion. Just trying to understand your stance.

Pickett, Hartman, and Armstrong were clearly better qbs this year than Howell. 
Im using the TD’s, Yards, Int metric. Plus just from games I’ve watched. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by Jds0912

[Burgold]

2 step plan:

1) Mail Eagles video of both Washington vs Tampa Bay games. 
2) Trade Heinike to Philly for one of their first rounders. 

[DWinzit]

Rivera was comfortable not moving up in the draft last year. 

If given a re-do would it be safe to say he would push to move up in the first to grab Fields or Jones or into the late 2nd to grab Mills?

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Jds0912 said:

Pickett, Hartman, and Armstrong were clearly better qbs this year than Howell. 
Im using the TD’s, Yards, Int metric. Plus just from games I’ve watched. 

So… Timmy Chang is lighting the NFL aflame now, right?

 

And Graham Harrell.

Edited January 16, 2022 by KDawg