The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[ThatNFLChick]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you take the wrong guy at #2 you try again in ~3 years or so. But you have to get that QB into your building ASAP. 

 

We will draft Maye and he'll start day one because he's by far the best QB we'll have and it'll be evident he'll be a future star by like Week 9 if not a bit inconsistent at times.

 

Lol the hyperbole. 

[Warhead36]

Just now, The Consigliere said:

He didn't.

Fields QBR:

2021 26.4

2022: 56.3

2021: 46.1 after getting DJ Moore, a true #1.  

 

He was basically an abomination in '21, league average in '22, and bottom quartile again in '23 after getting DJ Moore and a better defense. He got worse, exactly when people expected him to be better. Btw, I'm not even a hater, I was absolutely outraged when we went full idiot in '21, and didn't even try to trade up for the guy (or Mac Jones) and instead took an experimental linebacker prospect a full 30 picks before the next LB went off the board and he was and is a better prospect and player than Jamin Davis but that's another ****fest for another day. Drafted Fields all over the place in dynasty (he's actually been valuable there because of the running), and rated him 1B to Lawrence in '21, way above the rest of the class, including the ridiculous choices made in front of him, but let's be straight, he's sucked in the NFL in 2 of his 3 seasons. Absolutely sucked. He's not remotely worth trading for, considering the asking price AND the contract he'll get. 

 

 

Technically he's improved in completion %. He went from 32nd to 31st to 30th. So by 2054 he'll be the most accurate passer in the league!

 

Seriously though, Fields sucks. He just does. I don't get the love for him. Is it because he lit us up on TNF? Just about every QB we faced lit us up. Hell half the posters on here coulda probably thrown for 250 and a couple scores on us.

[Ghedrick]

If there's is a "Big Gap" between Caleb compared rest of the Qbs in the draft we need to do what needs to be done to get the #1 pick. The #2 pick, Next year's  #1 and Jon Allen should be close to enough. Nothing else matters but having an elite QB. The 49ers model is too hard to emulate. 

[Warhead36]

1 minute ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol the hyperbole. 

If you can't get excited about a QB prospect like Drake Maye falling into your lap when you don't even have the #1 pick then...I don't know. Maybe you should pick another hobby.

Just now, Ghedrick said:

If there's is a "Big Gap" between Caleb compared rest of the Qbs in the draft we need to do what needs to be done to get the #1 pick. The #2 pick, Next year's  #1 and Jon Allen should be close to enough. Nothing else matters but having an elite QB. The 49ers model is too hard to emulate. 

There isn't. At least not in many people's minds. But QB evaluation can be funky and people look for and see different things in different prospects.

 

Some people will have Maye #1. Some Daniels. There will be that one dude that'll have like Bo Nix #1 and who knows by 2028 he might be the one who looks like a genius(probably not though).

[The Consigliere]

18 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Mel is finally wising up. He’s been saying they’d get a 1 for Fields for the last few weeks, now it’s suddenly a 2 and 4.
 

Maybe he’s finally gotten some real intel, or he just realized how ridiculous he sounded. 

 

 

The former. In fairness to the guy, the bulk of his work is basically nailing down hundreds of prospects, and contacts around the league giving him info on where guys are projected to go. He doesn't have time to live in the real world with why Fields is worth infinitely less than he thinks (rookie contract is over after '24, the player actually sucks at the throwing part of a being a QB). But it was still absolutely ridiculous. But on the other hand, if you talk to football fans, 9 out of 10, probably 19 out of 20 don't get any of that, it's really the obsessives that understand why the highlights of his runs and long passes are immaterial to his trade value. 

[ThatNFLChick]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

He didn't.

Fields QBR:

2021 26.4

2022: 56.3

2021: 46.1 after getting DJ Moore, a true #1.  

 

He was basically an abomination in '21, league average in '22, and bottom quartile again in '23 after getting DJ Moore and a better defense. He got worse, exactly when people expected him to be better. Btw, I'm not even a hater, I was absolutely outraged when we went full idiot in '21, and didn't even try to trade up for the guy (or Mac Jones) and instead took an experimental linebacker prospect a full 30 picks before the next LB went off the board and he was and is a better prospect and player than Jamin Davis but that's another ****fest for another day. Drafted Fields all over the place in dynasty (he's actually been valuable there because of the running), and rated him 1B to Lawrence in '21, way above the rest of the class, including the ridiculous choices made in front of him, but let's be straight, he's sucked in the NFL in 2 of his 3 seasons. Absolutely sucked. He's not remotely worth trading for, considering the asking price AND the contract he'll get. 

 

 

 

Fields had a lot of issues that people were too willing to overlook. I understood being excited about the playmaking ability but that elongated throwing motion that telegraphed where he was going with the ball almost every single time combined with terrible footwork and slow processing? Chris Simms got killed for his comments on him but...

 

I would not give up assets for Fields. If it was a situation where he was just let go? Fine, take a chance but he has had the same issues for years now and hasn't really improved any of them 

[Ghedrick]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you can't get excited about a QB prospect like Drake Maye falling into your lap when you don't even have the #1 pick then...I don't know. Maybe you should pick another hobby.

There isn't. At least not in many people's minds. But QB evaluation can be funky and people look for and see different things in different prospects.

 

Some people will have Maye #1. Some Daniels. There will be that one dude that'll have like Bo Nix #1 and who knows by 2028 he might be the one who looks like a genius(probably not though).

If Caleb is Joe Burrow and Drake is Justin Hebert  it makes sense for us to make a huge deal to get it done. When Burrow is healthy the Bengals have chance to beat anyone at anytime because of him.Hebert is a great talent top 10 guy but having a top 5 guy makes a difference. So if the feeling around the league is there is a big gap I am all for it.

[bonhommelemec]

I was perusing the videos comparing Caleb to Drake.  I came away thinking that Maye is a better prospect for the NFL overall by a hair.

 

I like Caleb's potential but Maye seems to check all the boxes for me. 

 

In any event, to give up a King's ransom for the 1st pick shouldn't happen. 

 

 

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If you can't get excited about a QB prospect like Drake Maye falling into your lap when you don't even have the #1 pick then...I don't know. Maybe you should pick another hobby.

There isn't. At least not in many people's minds. But QB evaluation can be funky and people look for and see different things in different prospects.

 

Some people will have Maye #1. Some Daniels. There will be that one dude that'll have like Bo Nix #1 and who knows by 2028 he might be the one who looks like a genius(probably not though).

 

Or maybe I just think its silly to make grand declarations about rookies before they take a single NFL snap? I know that the vast majority of rookies do not have a first year like Stroud did, there will probably be very ugly ups and downs and we also have a bad offensive line, no TE and not a true #1 WR. This isn't some plug and play situation. We're not the Falcons or the Bears who probably could have gone pretty far with improved QB play. We had the 2nd overall pick for a reason. This is a bad team. Two coaches didn't really want to come here, I am going to guess in large part because this roster stinks (the only team worse is Carolina).

 

Part of why I prefer Daniels is because I have no delusions about this offensive line magically becoming awesome in an offseason. I think the best thing to take pressure off the line while rebuilding it is a QB that can be a homerun hitter with their legs, it forces the defense to play off a bit. 

 

But no I don't think it makes sense to declare we'll immediately see what home run a QB is, probably not even halfway through the season because of how much works needs to be done - and thats not even accounting for the QB having to adjust to thr NFL, new system, new teammates, new everything 

[zCommander]

17 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Kirk.  

 

Kirk is going to fleece another team lol

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I follow a bunch of NY sports reporters on twitter so by extension I see a lot of comments from Giants fans.  They've been oddly territorial about Maye been there guy from mid season last year.  I gather its because of all the noise that the Giants brass liked him a lot. 

 

 

 

Giants fans are clearly delusional. 

[srtman04]

5 minutes ago, bonhommelemec said:

I was perusing the videos comparing Caleb to Drake.  I came away thinking that Maye is a better prospect for the NFL overall by a hair.

 

I like Caleb's potential but Maye seems to check all the boxes for me. 

 

In any event, to give up a King's ransom for the 1st pick shouldn't happen. 

 

 

 

Honestly if it were up to me, I'd tell the Bears I'd be cool with any of the 3 top picks, so shove that trade deal up your ass

[ThatNFLChick]

7 minutes ago, Ghedrick said:

If Caleb is Joe Burrow and Drake is Justin Hebert  it makes sense for us to make a huge deal to get it done. When Burrow is healthy the Bengals have chance to beat anyone at anytime because of him.Hebert is a great talent top 10 guy but having a top 5 guy makes a difference. So if the feeling around the league is there is a big gap I am all for it.

 

Caleb is no Burrow. Maye is not Herbert (Herbert was one of the most mechanically sound QBs to come out of the draft. One of the knocks on him was he was "too technical")

[The Consigliere]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Downs was one of my favs in last years draft.  He went in the mid third round of the draft.

 

Nabers is going top 10.  Thomas is going late first or early 2nd probaby.  I bet Lacy goes first. 

 

Downs gave Drake a real weapon.  He arguably isn't as good as any of the LSU trio though.  But even if he were, he's just one dude, not three.   But yeah i don't think it was coincidence that Maye had a better season by a good margin the season before.  That and also he was in Longo's offense which he was used to back then.  Changed coordinators last year.

 

Agree, we can't kill Jayden for having three stud WRs, he still needed to get them the ball.  But for me the point is more about Maye than it is Daniels.  if you watch Maye closely you can see it was all in him.  He had crap around him.

 

 

Pre-combine rumors are that Thomas is a 1st rounder on a lot of boards. I think people are a bit skittish about the WR's in his tier, various issues here and there in the profile, and Thomas, if he tests well athletically, just looks like a traditional, very productive guy with all the boxes checked. He was actually a bigger recruit get than Nabers in his class. 

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

If Maye is that good maybe we get offered 3 first rounders ?

First rounders are great. But it depends where they are. You can still be out of range of Blue chip players with all 3 of them if Maye goes wherever you trade the pick to and balls out. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

You said if Drake Maye needed time you don’t have an issue with Howell starting. Doesn’t make mush sense that given the push to take him at #2.

 

 

I said that to someone with concerns.  If that was my concern (which it isn't) than am ok with waiting half a season or whatever.

 

But personally, I got no concerns.  i am not equivocating.  I am not back and forth on any of it.   It's not that i have some guaranteed thought in my head that Maye will be a franchise QB.  Guarantees don't exist.    But I've seen enough that I got zero reservations of taking the shot at him. 

 

For me personally,  I am all in on Drake Maye at #2.  I think his mechanics need some cleaning but i am not overly concerned and as I posted in that same post you quoted -- I personally think Maye would be better than Howell from the jump.  So clearly, even though I tried to placate someone if they had concerns and if so begin the season with Howell.  I also made it clear that's not how I feel since I said I personally think Maye will be better from day 1. 

 

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

 

Bears traded it away in the last draft didn’t they ?

 

lol, when making that same point in the past, I almost always say you take a QB if you don't have one.  So I guess I got to keep that disclaimer going -- feels like it goes without saying but I guess I'll keep saying it.  Yes like in the Bears case if you drafted a young QB in the top 10 or close enough in a trade up --  2 seasons before, you keep riding that until you are sure that he's not the dude.

 

So yes for example if the Bengals end up picking first for example they aren't taking a QB.  But teams that do not currently have a young QB in the fold they believe in, take that QB, 99% of the time.

Edited February 11 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghedrick]

9 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Caleb is no Burrow. Maye is not Herbert (Herbert was one of the most mechanically sound QBs to come out of the draft. One of the knocks on him was he was "too technical")

Some say that Drake and Caleb are higher rated coming out than Joe and Justin were. I've read this from many experts. In fact I've seen experts state this since last year. 

[Est.1974]

40 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Is there some specific reason you think this FO won't think Maye is a great prospect? I think you're coming at this whole thing from your bias of not liking him yourself.

 

Also, can we please quantify this? We're using vague words like "great", etc. What specific grade would you need on Maye in order to take him at #2? Or, maybe not even Maye specifically. Any QB prospect. Out of 100, what grade deserves #2 overall?

I coming at this from the perspective of Harris and Co wanting a long term period of success, built through the draft, built to stand time. 
 

Everyone on here is Hell bent on a QB at #2. I’m simply saying that Williams is elite talent that you do everything to try to get him. After that, I would personally start to look at the value of pick #2 and balance the best, absolute value over the medium-long term. 
 

That could = Maye. Or it couldn’t. We have options. But it’s a closed book to pretty much everyone else on here, which is fine by me 😂

[ThatNFLChick]

6 minutes ago, Ghedrick said:

Some say that Drake and Caleb are higher rated coming out than Joe and Justin were. I've read this from many experts. In fact I've seen experts state this since last year. 

 

Yeah well some also had Zach Wilson rated very high. I don't pay much attention to hyperbole, all the "Caleb is generational" yadda yadda. Trevor Lawrence was the best prospect ever and he has been flat out mid in the NFL. 

 

Justin Herbert was slept on coming out because his ADOT was low, lots of screens and dump offs, and there were questions about whether he could throw the deep ball because he wasn't asked to do it consistently. He also shrank in big games (which he still does in the NFL IMO)

Edited February 11 by ThatNFLChick

[Est.1974]

44 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Lol the hyperbole. 

It quite staggering isn’t it

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Yeah well some also had Zach Wilson rated very high. I don't pay much attention to hyperbole, all the "Caleb is generational" yadda yadda. 

 

Justin was slept on coming out because his ADOT was low and there were questions about whether he could throw the deep ball because he wasn't asked to do it consistently. He also shrank in big games (which he still does in the NFL IMO)

 I have to agree about Fields in the big game not being there. 

Edited February 11 by Redskins 2021

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, Ghedrick said:

Some say that Drake and Caleb are higher rated coming out than Joe and Justin were. I've read this from many experts. In fact I've seen experts state this since last year. 

 

Burrow was a highly regarded prospect on draft day, but any hype on Herbert is 100% hindsight driven.  He was not some elite prospect, and was even seen as a reach at 6 at the time.  His comp was Carson Wentz.  Maye's is Joe Burrow.  Maye is a much better and more highly regarded prospect than Herbert was.

[Est.1974]

Maye is Joe Burrow now.

 

Ok I take it all back, I’m in 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

 

That could = Maye. Or it couldn’t. We have options. But it’s a closed book to pretty much everyone else on here, which is fine by me 😂

 

I recall when in England reading a book about American football and they made fun of how that sport is so dependant on one player, the QB.  You don't have a QB, you have no shot.

 

Basketball has some similarities in that you need that marquee superstar to have a chance

 

For Harris who was obsessed with getting that superstar as owner of the 76ers -- the closest analogy to basketball is get the QB.  Without the QB you got no shot.

 

We watch teams that were meh for a long time like the Bills now always in the playoffs.  Always relevant.  That's thanks to Josh Allen.  It's how it works.  it is what it is.

 

The Falcons on some metrics have a top 10 defense.  They have a good O line.  They have great weapons.  they have a running game.  Yet they are below average.  Why?  

Edited February 11 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For Harris who was obsessed with getting that superstar as owner of the 76ers -- the closest analogy to basketball is get the QB.  Without the QB you got no shot.

I know, we need a QB, totally agree.

 

This point is more lined to my thinking, Harris will want the superstar.

 

If Maye is perceived that level come draft day, yep all good. Time will tell what we do….