The Official Roster Thread or similar ;)

[Going Commando]

We've got to get those snap counts down for the DTs.  800+ is not ideal.  Ideal would be like ~650 for the top guys.  Keep them much fresher and it means we're getting off the field and the offense is possessing the ball.  If you keep Io, Payne, and Allen around 650 snaps for the year they are going to absolutely dominate the inside of the line.

 

Getting Io back will be a big help, but Settle also needs to step up, get better, and play more so we can use a 4 man rotation.  Last year Daron played 880 which is limiting, especially for a 1 tech.  You don't want him playing 50+ snaps a game or else you're going to get too many unaggressive reps where he's just fighting for a stalemate. 40 or just under is the magic number, and if you can get him there, you will see more of a Fletcher Cox like impact.

[Going Commando]

I feel like we've had this amazing potential and depth on the inside of the DL since we drafted Daron and Settle but have not truly been able to take advantage of it yet by running a great four man rotation.  This is the year.  Fingers crossed that they stay healthy and this is the year where we just swamp offensive lines with a consistent attack on the inside.  Four guys with fresh legs looking to get into the backfield every opportunity.

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I feel like we've had this amazing potential and depth on the inside of the DL since we drafted Daron and Settle but have not truly been able to take advantage of it yet by running a great four man rotation.  This is the year.  Fingers crossed that they stay healthy and this is the year where we just swamp offensive lines with a consistent attack on the inside.  Four guys with fresh legs looking to get into the backfield every opportunity.

There was a video of Ron talking to Settle, telling him to focus on being disruptive and occupying blockers, instead of just moving through them. He said that's when everyone eats or something like that. I really think Settle is the key. If he can relieve Payne and still occupy several blockers, he can get on the field more, which opens it up for Allen and Ioannidis to do their thing and keeps Payne fresh. 

 

Payne is so young and has some elite gifts. He's asked to sacrifice for the rest of the guys and he does it with no questions. If we can keep him fresh and unleash him, I think he'll surprise a lot of people.

[Anselmheifer]

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I feel like we've had this amazing potential and depth on the inside of the DL since we drafted Daron and Settle but have not truly been able to take advantage of it yet by running a great four man rotation.  This is the year.  Fingers crossed that they stay healthy and this is the year where we just swamp offensive lines with a consistent attack on the inside.  Four guys with fresh legs looking to get into the backfield every opportunity.

There is obviously some truth in this. The last time we had Allen and Payne and Ioannidis healthy, we were lacking in edge play. 
 

Getting Ioannidis back this year is going to be huge. Adding Ioannidis and Jamin Davis is essentially adding two 1st round caliber players to what was already a top 5 caliber defense. Then add in the upgraded secondary and the j improved offense, factor in that Chase and Montez will be in their 2nd and 3rd years now and we should be really, really good. I think we are a pro bow MIKE and CB away from having an old school Ravens/Tampa Bay caliber defense. 
 

The one thing I’ll say about our depth is that I can’t name another team with better interior DL depth. I think our problem has more been that we have a lot of good guys and no great guy. Ioannidis has been our closest thing to a pro bowl DT the past few years. I’m hoping the soup is just right this year and multiple players take a big step forward. 

[Koolblue13]

If our offense can score, JDR can pin his ears back and just attack with reckless abandon. 

 

This has to be his best defensive roster. Last year the defense had to maintain and not get beat and get the ball back. This year they should be able to just take over games.

[LD0506]

In so many ways the success of any particular group is dependent on others. The D line played their asses off but were let down by the secondary, our O line exceeded expectations last year but the QBs just couldn't take advantage of it, etc. 

 

We've upgraded MLB, CB, safety, if they can get coached up to better play we'll see the D line gettin home more. The front gets better and the secondary gets more chances on hot throws, it all works together. A coherent improvement across the field will allows us to actually judge how good some of these guys are. I'm of the opinion that they're better than the results suggest, the same way the McLaurin will get his chance to shine with Samuels out there, the same way that Samuels eats when Terry draws attention, the running game benefits from both.

 

We haven't had a complete team in a long time. We've had some really good pieces here n there and some good groups on one side but seriously, when was it that we were solid across the roster? Drubbin Buffalo in the SB maybe. 

 

I am looking forward to this year in a way I haven't been able to in decades. Ron & Co. have been building a team, not just one unit but a whole team, which is why they targeted team guys in the draft. Hell, we've been talkin about Toney fer crissakes, a 7th rounder, might actually happen, that alone is a helluva good sign IMO. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

@JSSkinz to your point about 2017.   72.2 pass rush grade from PFF.  Identical ironically to Allen when he played before he got hurt. 

 

He didn't fade as the season went on at least according to PFF scores.  Here's his pass rushing scores by week in order that season.  I posted it below.

 

Haven't said that I am with @stevemcqueen1 in that I do want my D line especially the tackles having some decent amount of rotation to keep them fresh.  The Eagles are famous for being obsessed with rotation at that spot.  I think they will all play better with more rotation and are less likely to wear down at the end.

 

Judging purely by PFF scores which granted deserves a grain of salt but at the same time teams also subscribe to PFF for a reason.  I was just looking at Allen and Payne's grades by game.  You can see the slide more with Allen as the season went on.  Allen in the middle of the season was on a tear from a PFF perspective:  83.7, 84, 86,2, 90.8.  He wasn't as good at the end of the season.  Payne's scores aren't as indictive of that although his worst game PFF wise was the last one, 49.6.  Payne PFF wise never reached an 80 score on any game like Allen did.  And his five games where he scored a 70 or above were a bit spread out. 

 

To defend PFF a little its not like the dudes who have through the roof scores are scrubs, its guys like Donald and Bucnker, etc.  Having said that i don't always agree with them.  So their scores mostly align well to the players that are considered the best at the game with some rare exceptions. 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-most-underrated-player-on-all-32-nfl-teams

The most underrated player on all 32 NFL teams

WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM: DI MATT IOANNIDIS

With all the first-round draft picks on the Washington defensive line, it makes sense that the most underrated player on it is the guy who was drafted in the fifth round back in 2016. Ioannidis has three straight seasons with a PFF pass-rushing grade of at least 70.0, having notched 137 total pressures over those three years.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[HTTRDynasty]

How would you all rank our top 15 players for this upcoming season?  Not in terms of impact, because obviously Fitzpatrick would be first, but in terms of overall talent level relative to peers across the league. 
 

It was harder than I thought it would be to come up with a list I felt good about. 

Elite Potential

1. Chase Young

2. Terry McLaurin

3. Brandon Scherff 

4. William Jackson III

 

Very Good

5. Montez Sweat

6. Jonathan Allen

7. Antonio Gibson 

8. Matt Ioannidis 

9. Kendall Fuller

10. Daron Payne

 

Above Average 

11. Curtis Samuel

12. Logan Thomas

13. Tress Way

14. Chase Roullier

15. Kamren Curl

 

Tress Way would have been higher, but he’ll be 31 years old this season, and I’m expecting some regression.  I was going back and forth between Fitzpatrick and Curl for the last spot, but I truly think Curl would be a top 10 SS if he was given the opportunity to play there for the full season. I hope he gets that chance soon. 
 

 

[Anselmheifer]

26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

How would you all rank our top 15 players for this upcoming season?  Not in terms of impact, because obviously Fitzpatrick would be first, but in terms of overall talent level relative to peers across the league. 
 

It was harder than I thought it would be to come up with a list I felt good about. 

Elite Potential

1. Chase Young

2. Terry McLaurin

3. Brandon Scherff 

4. William Jackson III

 

Very Good

5. Montez Sweat

6. Jonathan Allen

7. Antonio Gibson 

8. Matt Ioannidis 

9. Kendall Fuller

10. Daron Payne

 

Above Average 

11. Curtis Samuel

12. Logan Thomas

13. Tress Way

14. Chase Roullier

15. Kamren Curl

 

Montez Sweat absolutely has elite potential. And I’d move Scherff to very good and maybe William Jackson III. I don’t see WJIII as an all pro type player and those are the guys I’d list as elite. Also, yes, I know Scherff was an all pro. I just don’t think he’s as good or impactful as his PFF rating or all pro designation would indicate. 

[HTTRDynasty]

28 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Montez Sweat absolutely has elite potential. And I’d move Scherff to very good and maybe William Jackson III. I don’t see WJIII as an all pro type player and those are the guys I’d list as elite. Also, yes, I know Scherff was an all pro. I just don’t think he’s as good or impactful as his PFF rating or all pro designation would indicate. 

 

I think Sweat has elite potential down the line, just not this upcoming year.  I don't view him as a top 10 EDGE for this upcoming season.

 

WJIII is a top 10 player at his position (ranked #9 by PFF), and has the opportunity to become an All-Pro behind this DL.

 

Scherff is likely a top 5 guard in this league, and it's not just PFF that would agree.

[Anselmheifer]

6 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I think Sweat has elite potential down the line, just not this upcoming year.  I don't view him as a top 10 EDGE for this upcoming season.

 

WJIII is a top 10 player at his position (ranked #9 by PFF), and has the opportunity to become an All-Pro behind this DL.

 

Scherff is likely a top 5 guard in this league, and it's not just PFF that would agree.

You can make valid arguments for Scherff and WJIII.

 

If Sweat has elite potential down the road, why not this year? He’s 24 years old and in his 3rd season, playing across from another great edge, with a set of very good pass rushing interior DL, a good secondary, a great coaching staff, and an offense that should put up points. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, Anselmheifer said:

If Sweat has elite potential down the road, why not this year? He’s 24 years old and in his 3rd season, playing across from another great edge, with a set of very good pass rushing interior DL, a good secondary, a great coaching staff, and an offense that should put up points. 

 

True.  But IMO, he was just so raw coming in (in terms of his technique), that he will likely need another season of refinement before he enters that top 10 EDGE group.

 

Do you think he's better than any of the following?  You could perhaps make a case that he's better than a few, but I think it would be pretty homerish to think he'll be a top 10 EDGE for this season.  I hope I'm wrong though, obviously.

 

Khalil Mack

T.J. Watt

Myles Garrett

Joey Bosa

Nick Bosa

Von Miller

JJ Watt

Chase Young

Cameron Jordan

Demarcus Lawrence

Danielle Hunter

Zadarius Smith

Shaq Barrett

Chandler Jones

Jerry Hughes

 

[Koolblue13]

Why is The other Chase so low. Hes a top 5 center.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

True.  But IMO, he was just so raw coming in (in terms of his technique), that he will likely need another season of refinement before he enters that top 10 EDGE group.

 

Do you think he's better than any of the following?  You could perhaps make a case that he's better than a few, but I think it would be pretty homerish to think he'll be a top 10 EDGE for this season.  I hope I'm wrong though, obviously.

 

Khalil Mack

T.J. Watt

Myles Garrett

Joey Bosa

Nick Bosa

Von Miller

JJ Watt

Chase Young

Cameron Jordan

Demarcus Lawrence

Danielle Hunter

Zadarius Smith

Shaq Barrett

Chandler Jones

Jerry Hughes

 

if there are 64 starting Edge rushers in the NFL, Sweat doesn’t have to be top 10 to be considered elite...not to mention there are at least 2-3 guys on that list that you could make an argument that Sweat is better than (or will be this season).

[HTTRDynasty]

12 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

if there are 64 starting Edge rushers in the NFL, Sweat doesn’t have to be top 10 to be considered elite...not to mention there are at least 2-3 guys on that list that you could make an argument that Sweat is better than (or will be this season).

 

Yeah, those were 15 names though, which still puts him top 13-14 at best IMO.

 

And "Elite" is an exclusive group, or it should be.  Even top 10 is stretching the definition of "Elite" to be honest.  It should really be more like top 3-5 (All-Pros).

 

23 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why is The other Chase so low. Hes a top 5 center.

 

He has to do it for more than 1 year for me to believe that.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

True.  But IMO, he was just so raw coming in (in terms of his technique), that he will likely need another season of refinement before he enters that top 10 EDGE group.

 

Do you think he's better than any of the following?  You could perhaps make a case that he's better than a few, but I think it would be pretty homerish to think he'll be a top 10 EDGE for this season.  I hope I'm wrong though, obviously.

 

Khalil Mack

T.J. Watt

Myles Garrett

Joey Bosa

Nick Bosa

Von Miller

JJ Watt

Chase Young

Cameron Jordan

Demarcus Lawrence

Danielle Hunter

Zadarius Smith

Shaq Barrett

Chandler Jones

Jerry Hughes

 

That list makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills. JJ Watt is done. Jerry Hughes hasn’t produced more than Montez did last year in 5 years. Danielle Hunter is coming off injury and was out last year. Chandler Jones is coming off injury and had one sack in 5 games last year. DeMarcus Lawrence has played 7 years and only two of them were better than Montez last year, and those were 3 and 4 years ago. 
 

Heck, here is a hot take, I’d take Montez over both Bosa’s. Both Bosa’s are injury prone. Both are a little like Jonathan Allen, talented enough to rack up pressures, but athletically limited enough not to put up huge sack numbers. Montez posted significantly better numbers than Joey last year. More sacks, tackles, PD’s, FF, INT’s. Joey posted 2 more QB hits, 27 to 25. Joey is also older and way more expensive. Take a look at Montez’s stats last year compared to Nick Bosa’s rookie year. Very comparable. 
 

The other thing about Montez is that he’s a very good run defender. And the only guy you listed above that was ever better at interfering with passing lanes was TJ Watt. 

[HTTRDynasty]

23 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

That list makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

 

And I feel like I am definitely in a WFT forum here 😂

 

Watt is done?  Jerry Hughes doesn't produce?  It's 2021 - you need to look beyond sacks and other traditional stats.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by HTTRDynasty

[Anselmheifer]

11 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

And I feel like I am definitely in a WFT forum here 😂

Watt is 32 and posted 4 and 5 sacks in the last 2 years. 
 

Hughes’ last 6 years looked like this, 5 sacks, 6 sacks, 4 sacks, 7 sacks, 4.5 sacks, 4.5 sacks.

 

There is a place for advanced stats and a place for common sense. There isn’t a single team in the league that would rather have Jerry Hughes than Montez Sweat. Come on. 

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Watt is 32 and posted 4 and 5 sacks in the last 2 years. 
 

Hughes’ last 6 years looked like this, 5 sacks, 6 sacks, 4 sacks, 7 sacks, 4.5 sacks, 4.5 sacks.

 

There is a place for advanced stats and a place for common sense. There isn’t a single team in the league that would rather have Jerry Hughes than Montez Sweat. Come on. 

 

Sacks have been proven to be reliant on scheme, situation, and luck much more so than pressure rate, which is why they tend to fluctuate so much from year to year.  I'm clearly not the only one that has Watt and Hughes over Sweat for this upcoming season: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-edge-defender-rankings-the-32-best-players-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

 

Obviously teams would take Sweat long-term over most guys on that list, but like I said, we're talking about just this upcoming season.

 

I also said Sweat is arguable with a few guys on that list.  Hughes is one of them.

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2021 by HTTRDynasty

[XxSpearheadxX]

Dunno if this was posted but lets all get our expectations to the moon asap! 

[Anselmheifer]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Sacks have been proven to be reliant on scheme, situation, and luck much more so than pressure rate, which is why they tend to fluctuate so much from year to year.  I'm clearly not the only one that has Watt and Hughes over Sweat for this upcoming season: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-edge-defender-rankings-the-32-best-players-entering-the-2021-nfl-season

 

Obviously teams would take Sweat long-term over most guys on that list, but like I said, we're talking about just this upcoming season.

 

I also said Sweat is arguable with a few guys on that list.  Hughes is one of them.

 

 

 

If you don’t factor in age, health and expense, you can make an argument for Watt. I think that’s reasonable. 
 

Hughes isn’t an argument. And it’s not just sacks. Looking at QB hits, tackles, PD’s, TFL, Montez was as productive last year as Hughes was in the last TWO. I don’t want to hear about advanced stats in cases like that. Remember when PFF had Swearinger and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix both as top 4 safeties in the NFL in 2018? 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

If you don’t factor in age, health and expense, you can make an argument for Watt. I think that’s reasonable. 
 

Hughes isn’t an argument. And it’s not just sacks. Looking at QB hits, tackles, PD’s, TFL, Montez was as productive last year as Hughes was in the last TWO. I don’t want to hear about advanced stats in cases like that. Remember when PFF had Swearinger and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix both as top 4 safeties in the NFL in 2018? 

 

Forgot who it was but there is a dude who did analytics for a living who likes PFF but also said their grades for the secondary is the most off of all positions they grade.  I forgot his full explanation for it but it was something along the lines that its difficult to dicipher if the player met or failed to meet their assignment when rewatching players in the secondary.

[HTTRDynasty]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

If you don’t factor in age, health and expense, you can make an argument for Watt. I think that’s reasonable. 

 

I mean, yeah, the whole point is comparing expected performance for the upcoming season, not all those other factors.

 

5 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Hughes isn’t an argument. And it’s not just sacks. Looking at QB hits, tackles, PD’s, TFL, Montez was as productive last year as Hughes was in the last TWO. I don’t want to hear about advanced stats in cases like that. Remember when PFF had Swearinger and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix both as top 4 safeties in the NFL in 2018? 

 

PFF is definitely not perfect, but I still think Hughes is arguable.  But I understand how it would seem strange when just looking at traditional stats.  Still, I would love to see who you'd place Sweat over in the TOP 10, rather than arguing about the 15th name I put on the list.

[Dark Acre]

2 hours ago, Califan007 said:

if there are 64 starting Edge rushers in the NFL, Sweat doesn’t have to be top 10 to be considered elite...not to mention there are at least 2-3 guys on that list that you could make an argument that Sweat is better than (or will be this season).

Of course you do.  Top 10 includes 4 guys who are not even top 10%.  Elite needs to be top 10% or better or redefined.  It's like "ambassador".  It used to mean a country's top diplomat in another country, but now it refers to customer service specialist, which used to be called customer service representative, which used to be called clerk and was addressed as:  "Hey, do you work here?". If you're not top 6 in a field of 64, you're an ambassador, not elite.

[Anselmheifer]

31 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, yeah, the whole point is comparing expected performance for the upcoming season, not all those other factors.

To be clear, I don’t think you’re crazy here. To some degree, I was playing devils advocate, while also pointing out that the Bosa’s are overrated. 
 

I don’t think Montez Sweat is currently a top 10 pass rusher/edge player. On the other hand, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if he was considered one after this year, or if he was better than Chase this year.

 

I do however think Montez would be a top 10 edge asset in a trade, for instance, based on age, health, rookie contract, length/size, athleticism, production to date, and overall upside. Can you name 10 edge guys for whom teams would surrender more trade assets?