2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[clskinsfan]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Howell is 4:1 on his career. What are you talking about it’s no where near Pickett’s? 
 

And if you want to talk about translating to the next level you better check on Pickett’s hands and tight window throws. 

His hands. We will see how he handles an NFL ball. As far as tight window throws go he ripped them all season long. His arm is on par with Howells in every way. 

[KDawg]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

This season. It is nowhere near Picketts. And that is part of the rub on Howell. He was hyped to be this Heismann level QB and he was nowhere close to it. 

So we’re going to judge a guy on a single season worth of statistics where literally all of his weapons left for the NFL and he still managed to put up good stats and get a 1300 yard receiver?

 

Believe it or not, PITT has some serious weapons around Pickett. 
 

Howell has had a much better career than Pickett and it’s not even remotely close. 
 

I like Pickett. Not as much as Howell. And he has more questions about going to the next level in my eyes.

 

If you wanted to say Howell seems like he’s just going to be steady Eddie and never really push the envelope as a big time QB I’d be open to that argument. It’s a floor that I feel could be his downfall. 

Letting a single season, while ignoring context, effect your opinion on a prospect is a mistake in my opinion. 
 

But to each their own.

 

Just now, clskinsfan said:

His hands. We will see how he handles an NFL ball. As far as tight window throws go he ripped them all season long. His arm is on par with Howells in every way. 

You’re making points I didn’t make.

 

He made throws into tight windows (into double coverage) that are balls that are interceptions in the NFL. His arm is solid. If he can throw the larger ball he has a bright future.

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

So we’re going to judge a guy on a single season worth of statistics where literally all of his weapons left for the NFL and he still managed to put up good stats and get a 1300 yard receiver?

 

Believe it or not, PITT has some serious weapons around Pickett. 
 

Howell has had a much better career than Pickett and it’s not even remotely close. 
 

I like Pickett. Not as much as Howell. And he has more questions about going to the next level in my eyes.

 

If you wanted to say Howell seems like he’s just going to be steady Eddie and never really push the envelope as a big time QB I’d be open to that argument. It’s a floor that I feel could be his downfall. 

Letting a single season, while ignoring context, effect your opinion on a prospect is a mistake in my opinion. 
 

But to each their own.

 

The single season thing is fair. But it has worked out with recent draft picks. Like I said a few days If Howell is the teams guy and they take him at 11 I wont lose my mind over it. But to me Pickett is a far superior thrower of the football.

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

The single season thing is fair. But it has worked out with recent draft picks. Like I said a few days If Howell is the teams guy and they take him at 11 I wont lose my mind over it. But to me Pickett is a far superior thrower of the football.

What do you see in his film that says that? Ignore statistics. In comparing Howell and Pickett game film (not highlights, actual games) what makes you say Pickett is a superior passer? I’ve watched games of both, but not every game. So I’m willing to to hear you out with an open mind while also knowing what I’ve seen from them.

Edited January 14, 2022 by KDawg

[HigSkin]

I could see the Jags taking a long look at Neal #1 and as an anchor to protect Lawrence.  

 

 

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

What do you see in his film that says that? Ignore statistics. In comparing Howell and Pickett game film (not highlights, actual games) what makes you say Pickett is a superior passer? I’ve watched games of both, but not every game. So I’m willing to to hear you out with an open mind some while also knowing what I’ve seen from them.

Watch Picketts mid level accuracy and his accuracy on the move. That is what reminds me of Burrow about him. He is deadly on the move. Left or right. Howell does not have that level of accuracy in his game. I actually think Howell throws a better deep ball than Pickett does though. Pickett will underthrow the ball on occasion deep. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

Watch Picketts mid level accuracy and his accuracy on the move. That is what reminds me of Burrow about him. He is deadly on the move. Left or right. Howell does not have that level of accuracy in his game. I actually think Howell throws a better deep ball than Pickett does though. Pickett will underthrow the ball on occasion deep. 

Agree on Pickett on the mid level. 
 

I think Howell is closer in that regard than you think, though. Pickett may be overall better in that range, but he also tends to have guys running wide open or he tries to rifle a ball between defenders. Which in fairness, worked at Pitt. 
 

I think Howell is better under pressure and a better athlete. Throws a better deep ball. Comparable mid accuracy but slightly lesser. 

[Skinsinparadise]

For what its worth PFF grades the three levels of throws.

 

As for intermediate throws, 4 dudes grade very well on that front, with just about identical scores ironically

 

Pickett 93.7, Howell 93.2, Corral 91.4, Strong 91.2

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[clskinsfan]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For what its worth PFF grades the three levels of throws.

 

As for intermediate throws, 4 dudes grade very well on that front, with just about identical scores ironically

 

Pickett 93.7, Howell 93.2, Corral 91.4, Strong 91.2

SIP do you have their grades on deep throws by chance? 

[wilco_holland]

I feel like our O could take off if we can throw the deep ball. Terry and Samuels can burn people and Brown ain't slow either. It would force teams to keep there safeties more deep and open up more space for RBs to work with and throw short stuff. 

 

But we need to be able to keep the D honest and go vertical. 

 

I personally don't care about the athletic ability but I know in Turner his O it is kinda necessary. He likes to move the QB outside the pocket. 

[Going Commando]

IMO Pickett read the field way better than Howell did this year, and he was a lot more creative than Howell was.  He made some baller plays, no look TD throws and throws where he's rolling right for a td window to open back in the middle of the field, etc.  Stuff that shows off special creativity.  I think he's also a markedly better athlete than Howell because he is faster and much more coordinated.  And I think he knows how to use his athleticism to extend plays and keep the chains moving because he played smarter and with a better view of the field.  Most of Howell's yardage on the ground was UNC using him as a blunt object on designed runs through the middle of the defense and that is absolutely not coming with him to the NFL.  Especially not at his size.  He was frustrating with so many of those runs too, lots of flat footed lateral cuts performed at half the speed of a running back, and/or lots of plays where his head is down and he's running up the back of his blocks.  Pickett's running is complimentary to his pocket passing and he is good at scrambling to the chains on third and long when the need for it is there.  There is real creativity on those scrambles, look at how he iced the win against Clemson for examples.   And I think you see the superior quickness and coordination in his drops.  He gets excellent depth and ends up on balance and ready to throw really quick.  And his ability to extend plays outside of the pocket and stick tough movement throws is his most exciting strength to me.

 

I think he's got some point guard mindset and athlete in him, like Burrow, and I can see where that comparison is coming from.  He reminds me of Matthew Stafford too, I just wish he had the same level of arm strength as Stafford.  That's the one real disappointment with Pickett for me.  IMO his arm will be average at the next level.  But his quick, coordinated feet help him set up nicely to drive his throws and he is constantly creating space for himself and anticipating issues with his pocket.  That superior anticipation is where he was better than all of the other QBs this season, and it's a big reason why I think he could be successful at the next level.

 

I like Corral's arm better, but I think I'm leaning Pickett as QB2.  And I could easily see him getting picked QB1 because I think many teams will prefer him to my QB1 Willis.  His film is the best this year and he looks the most ready for the NFL.  And I suspect he could handle going to a bad team better than the others because he's reading the game better and faster than the other QBs in the class. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by stevemcqueen1

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Rivera on 980, he's not the the type to BS, what he says he typically does.  Rivera made it clear as a bell that Heinicke isn't the guy without flat out saying it -- telling Sheehan more or less you watched this season, you know we need something here (or something to that effect) when talking about the QB spot

 

Sheehan asked him as for what he looks for in a QB.    His response.  

 

A.  The arm talent to make every kind of throw

 

B.  Quick twitch-quick release.  He doesn't want a QB that holds on to the ball too long

 

C.  Mobility and ability to evade the rush

[Skinsinparadise]

Other things Ron mentioned.

 

A.  Outside of the QB spot.  There are 2 spots they want to add front line players.  We know MLB is one of them.  So wonder what the other is?  FS, WR?

 

B. There are two spots in additional to that they want add to their depth.

 

C.  He's heavily hinted at now, I'd say about 7 times in different interviews that some players on defense, hinting heavily its our edge rushers got full of themselves this prevous off season but they've come down from that so he expects a better season next year

 

D.  The way he gushed about Landon Collins, I am guessing he stays

 

E.  He dodged the Scherff question.  That's a change from last year when he talked about how much they wanted him back.  I am guessing there might be something to Standig's report that Scherff wants to go closer to the midwest where he's from or his salary demands are still too high.  I think Mayhew smoking Scherff out in his press conference the other day was telling.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[actorguy1]

Rivera on Keim's podcast sounded pretty comfortable with the offensive weapons that are already on the team. He sounded confident they had enough to please whoever is starting at QB next season. Not sure WR is a must add this year.

Edited January 14, 2022 by actorguy1

[HigSkin]

He kind of reiterated some stuff as you mention SIP in this JK Podcast.  Still a lot to unpack but at the 14:30 mark he starts to talk about QB philosophy.  #1 trait in QB, besides the obvious athletic ability and arm, he mentions decision making and quick twitch (see what I see and get the ball out).  Don't know if there's that type of QB in this draft but that's what Ron is looking for.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Rivera on Keim's podcast sounded pretty comfortable with the offensive weapons that are already on the team. He sounded confident they had enough to please whoever is starting at QB next season. Not sure WR is a must add this year.

 

As for WR, they'd be banking on Samuel's season being an injury plagued fluke one off season and Dyami developing.  If so they'd let it ride.  But otherwise this WR was pretty pathetic outside of Terry.  It's an interesting position, not sure what they think.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

He kind of reiterated some stuff as you mention SIP in this JK Podcast.  Still a lot to unpack but at the 14:30 mark he starts to talk about QB philosophy.  #1 trait in QB, besides the obvious athletic ability and arm, he mentions decision making and quick twitch (see what I see and get the ball out).  Don't know if there's that type of QB in this draft but that's what Ron is looking for.

 

 

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I listen to all of Keim's podcasts haven't caught up with that one yet.

 

As for his description, Corral would fit it very well IMO.  Arm strength, quick twitch, evading pressure, decision making (2021 not 2020).  All up his alley.

 

Corral only threw 4 picks.  He by a mile had the best pressure to sacks conversion among these QBs according to PFF.  Had the best turnover worthy throw rate -- meaning throws that weren't pick worthy -- granted again by the subjective criteria of PFF.  He didn't have the same time to throw compared to most of the other prospects.  He plays fast IMO and has the arm to make any throw and can run.

 

I don't think that description helps Ridder.  IMO decision making is red flag with him.   Maybe Willis, too.  It also IMO rules out Strong, he's not mobile at all. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Could be they think WR's would've produced more if the QB had the ability to hit windows.  Heinicke's lack of arm talent really hurts certain routes.

 

Maybe they've got film showing the WR's are getting open enough on certain routes but Heinicke can't make those throws?

[Zim489]

Blehhhh at Keeping Landon. He’s only good when he’s in a run set attacking downhill. For his cap hit it’s easily the worst contract on the team. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think that description helps Ridder.  IMO decision making is red flag with him.   Maybe Willis, too.  It also IMO rules out Strong, he's not mobile at all. 

 

Just my opinion, but Strong shouldn't be in any teams conversation as a primary QB option.  He should be nowhere near the 1st round.

[KDawg]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I listen to all of Keim's podcasts haven't caught up with that one yet.

 

As for his description, Corral would fit it very well IMO.  Arm strength, quick twitch, evading pressure, decision making (2021 not 2020).  All up his alley.

 

Corral only threw 4 picks.  He by a mile had the best pressure to sacks conversion among these QBs according to PFF.  Had the best turnover worthy throw rate -- meaning throws that weren't pick worthy -- granted again by the subjective criteria of PFF.  He didn't have the same time to throw compared to most of the other prospects.  He plays fast IMO and has the arm to make any throw and can run.

 

I don't think that description helps Ridder.  IMO decision making is red flag with him.   Maybe Willis, too.  It also IMO rules out Strong, he's not mobile at all. 

 

Agree. Feels like it fits Howell, Corral and Pickett. 

[Warhead36]

I think we'll end up trading up once we get closer to the draft and it becomes more clear who the hot prospects are and who teams are targeting.

 

Rivera sounds desperate.

[lovemaskins]

13 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Blehhhh at Keeping Landon. He’s only good when he’s in a run set attacking downhill. For his cap hit it’s easily the worst contract on the team. 

His numbers say otherwise… when used correctly he was a complete difference maker and reminiscent of Jamaal Adam’s game.  He’s never been a deep half safety and that was his knock in NY, but when used around the line of scrimmage, blitzing, covering backs out of the backfield and roaming, he’s a tackling machine.  

[Zim489]

3 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

His numbers say otherwise… when used correctly he was a complete difference maker and reminiscent of Jamaal Adam’s game.  He’s never been a deep half safety and that was his knock in NY, but when used around the line of scrimmage, blitzing, covering backs out of the backfield and roaming, he’s a tackling machine.  

Exactly what I am talking about. He also is terrible covering RBs and TEs

[Chump Bailey]

I hope we are looking hard at WR personally. There are a lot of options. Draft wise George Pickens, Justyn Ross, Dontario Drummond and Romeo Doubs are appealing to me. I'm not as enamored with Drake as most. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by Chump Bailey