2022 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[philibusters]

8 hours ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

He's proved to be the most pro ready but I still think he has by far the lowest ceiling of any of the 5 rookie QBs.  

 

I'd *much* rather have Lawrence or Lance.  Would prefer rolling the dice on Fields too.  Wilson...um...not so sure.  He's had some truly terrible moments.

 

Jones just looks like a competant game manager to me.  I'd rather aim higher.

 

i may regret this but I would take Mac Jones over Lance and Fields at this point.  

[philibusters]

What are people thoughts on Dontay Demus?

 

He is the WR from the University of Maryland who went down with a season ending knee injury this past weekend.

 

Before the injury he was viewed as a third round pick.  Mel Kiper had him 9th on WR board, which probably equates to a 3rd round pick) and PFF had him 84th overall on the Draft Board.  I don't know the details of his knee injury, but how much of a discount would you expect.   Do we think he'll fall from the 3rd round to the 5th?  6th?  7th?  Undrafted?    As a player he was a good route runner, good size (listed at 6'4, will probably measure in at 6'3 and some change at the combine) and good speed (sub 4.5).  He looks like NFL receiver.   He sure looked like he was on pace for a 1200-1300 yard receiving year.

 

From a WFT perspective, where do you think he would be a good value.  Lets say before the injury as a prospect he was around the same level prospect as Dyami Brown (though he is a different receiver than Dyami, probably 3 inches taller).  Receiver is not a huge need for WFT... is he worth a flier in the 5th round, 6th round?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

a player many of us liked 2 years ago, rough start in his rookie season but played well in the end of that season and its carrying over.  Kadrius Toney actually had a big game on Sunday after a rough start.  I am rooting for the Giants rookies to fail but it is what it is. 

 

 

 

[Ball Security]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

a player many of us liked 2 years ago, rough start in his rookie season but played well in the end of that season and its carrying over.  Kadrius Toney actually had a big game on Sunday after a rough start.  I am rooting for the Giants rookies to fail but it is what it is. 

 

 

 

Going to have his hands full this weekend with Parsons.

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Going to have his hands full this weekend with Parsons.

 

lol that makes me sad too.  The combination of Parsons and emergence of Diggs seems to have helped make a bad defense look at least average.

[Anselmheifer]

Can anybody comment on how Christian Harris is looking this year?

[Skinsinparadise]

I've also heard Hoffman say who knew some of the WFT scouts, where he learned they weren't into Tua at the time. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

I don't trust a single thing said about how our scouts supposedly felt about QB prospects.  The team's actions speak volumes and I don't think for a minute they were seriously interested in any QB prospects the past two years.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't trust a single thing said about how our scouts supposedly felt about QB prospects.  The team's actions speak volumes and I don't think for a minute they were seriously interested in any QB prospects the past two years.

I dont either and if they were, it was Chase vs Tua and he's supposedly being shopped for a 2nd a few games into his second season. 

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Can anybody comment on how Christian Harris is looking this year?

 

He's been fine, but the third best LBer on their team.  To'oTo'o has taken hold of the starting MIKE role for their D and is the leader, and Will Anderson has been the breakout edge rusher.  Harris has been disruptive and has looked pretty good in more of an outside role.  Anderson looks like a first rounder, maybe an early one.  To'oTo'o and Harris look like late first or early second rounders so far.

[ThePackisback]

You guys like Taylor over Fitz right now?

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't trust a single thing said about how our scouts supposedly felt about QB prospects.  The team's actions speak volumes and I don't think for a minute they were seriously interested in any QB prospects the past two years.

Agree and disagree.  Keim's point was they weren't interested in Tua.   He among others have suggested they liked 1-2 QBs in the last draft but they won't trade the store to go up and get them.  Rivera flat out said the same thing post draft.  Rivera isn't Shanny, he's not one to just lie about stuff, he is if anything at times brutally honest.  Also the Stafford chase was real, according to national reporters, local reporters and Rivera himself. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[86 Snyder]

15 hours ago, philibusters said:

What are people thoughts on Dontay Demus?

 

He is the WR from the University of Maryland who went down with a season ending knee injury this past weekend.

 

Before the injury he was viewed as a third round pick.  Mel Kiper had him 9th on WR board, which probably equates to a 3rd round pick) and PFF had him 84th overall on the Draft Board.  I don't know the details of his knee injury, but how much of a discount would you expect.   Do we think he'll fall from the 3rd round to the 5th?  6th?  7th?  Undrafted?    As a player he was a good route runner, good size (listed at 6'4, will probably measure in at 6'3 and some change at the combine) and good speed (sub 4.5).  He looks like NFL receiver.   He sure looked like he was on pace for a 1200-1300 yard receiving year.

 

From a WFT perspective, where do you think he would be a good value.  Lets say before the injury as a prospect he was around the same level prospect as Dyami Brown (though he is a different receiver than Dyami, probably 3 inches taller).  Receiver is not a huge need for WFT... is he worth a flier in the 5th round, 6th round?

 

 

 

It was a devastating injury...the kind that can ruin a career.  I dont have a hard time watching bad injuries but I know some do, so I wont post it, but google it if you want to see.  It was u-g-l-y.

[Skinsinparadise]

Looks like the Giants might not be in the QB chase in the next draft if Jones keeps holding up.  I am not a Jones guy but I also don't think he's as terrible as some others on the board do.  Ironic for me to say that because I wasn't a fan of his before the draft but I still thought he'd be a marginal type starter.  He's not been great but he looks better than marginal.    

 

I hope it was a one off thing but Golladay has looked good now in multiple games, Toney had a good game finally, Thomas is coming along.  It's still early but if everything holds it wouldn't shock me if the Giants either stay put or package picks to get the top pass rusher.  Their defense has some good talent but sorely missing a stud pass rusher. 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, ThePackisback said:

You guys like Taylor over Fitz right now?

 

If he keeps playing like this, yes for me. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree and disagree.  Keim's point was they weren't interested in Tua.   He among others have suggested they liked 1-2 QBs in the last draft but they won't trade the store to go up and get them.  Rivera flat out said the same thing post draft.  Rivera isn't Shanny, he's not one to just lie about stuff, he is if anything at times brutally honest.  Also the Stafford chase was real, according to national reporters, local reporters and Rivera himself. 

 

I think the Stafford pursuit was very real.  I was referring just to the draft prospects.  It wouldn't have taken a crazy haul to get Fields or Jones or Mills/Mond/Trask but they clearly weren't very interested in any of them, or else they'd have pulled that trigger.  Our need couldn't have been more powerful than it was last offseason.  And they certainly could have picked Tua or Herbert, but I don't think they were interested in them.  That was a fairly different FO group that was still heavily reliant on Kyle Smith, the draft came up very early in the process of revamping the FO, and they probably just wanted to get through it making the safest choices possible.

 

I don't think Rivera is as much of a straight shooter as you think he is though.  Especially not about QBs or war room debates.  I definitely think he tells some stories and he's got some politician in him, but he has the remarkable gift of always seeming quietly sincere when he speaks.

 

They played it safe at QB and it might have worked out because Heinicke has played so well and saved our season (so far).  If he keeps his level of play up, then their instincts to just build the periphery and see what we have with our extant QBs  (plus Fitz) will have been dead on.

[Going Commando]

50 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I dont either and if they were, it was Chase vs Tua and he's supposedly being shopped for a 2nd a few games into his second season. 

 

JFC the Dolphins suck.  They tanked for the kid and then ****-footed with him from day one.  What a disaster.  Bad franchises can't make franchise quarterbacks.  They're one of the few teams that has looked unequivocally worse than us this season, and Biran Flores already looks suspect.  They are directionless and it's extra bad because they had the draft capital to pull off a rapid turnaround if they had the leadership and vision to pull it off.

 

They also messed up picking Jaylen Waddle over DeVonta Smith, but that's a different mistake.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

JFC the Dolphins suck.  They tanked for the kid and then ****-footed with him from day one.  What a disaster.  Bad franchises can't make franchise quarterbacks.  They're one of the few teams that has looked unequivocally worse than us this season, and Biran Flores already looks suspect.  They are directionless and it's extra bad because they had the draft capital to pull off a rapid turnaround if they had the leadership and vision to pull it off.

 

They also messed up picking Jaylen Waddle over DeVonta Smith, but that's a different mistake.

They were poised for such an epic rebuild, too. They could have really owned the last couple drafts and have an excellent defense already.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, ThePackisback said:

You guys like Taylor over Fitz right now?

 

I do. From the limited action we got to see Fitz, the offense was completely flat, and he was marginal. Taylor has given the offense a lot of life, and he's played well.

 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

The one game I've seen Pickett in, he was really good. I got some Justin Herbert vibes from him.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

The one game I've seen Pickett in, he was really good. I got some Justin Herbert vibes from him.

 

I've just watched bits and pieces of him, I got to record a game and watch the whole thing.  It's rare that i want to watch a full game of Pitt so I keep missing him in real time. 

[Morneblade]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've just watched bits and pieces of him, I got to record a game and watch the whole thing.  It's rare that i want to watch a full game of Pitt so I keep missing him in real time. 

 

He played Tennessee first game out and mauled us.

[Going Commando]

A bunch of my favorite prospects from the last draft are apparently playing well early in their rookie seasons:  https://theathletic.com/2867813/2021/10/06/micah-parsons-mac-jones-kyle-pitts-asante-samuel-jr-the-nfl-all-rookie-team-at-the-quarter-mark/

 

Quote

Micah Parsons. Mac Jones. Kyle Pitts. Asante Samuel Jr.: The NFL All-Rookie team at the quarter mark

 

We know about Cosmi and Wu from following them closely in Washington-land, but Najee, Smitty, Trey Smith, Asante Samuel Jr, and Eric Stokes all made this list too.  And Rondale Moore and Tremble got honorable mentions behind Smitty and Freirmuth respectively.  Good starts for all of them.  Here are the blurbs about the DBs and Trey Smith:

 

Quote

Trey Smith, Kansas City Chiefs (6th round, No. 226)

 

Smith was one of the most difficult evaluations in the entire draft. A former five-star recruit, he flashed first-round ability at Tennessee, but medical concerns and a sloppy senior season were anchors on his draft grade. Some thought he could be a top 100 pick, so it was a surprise to see Smith fall so far. The Chiefs wisely took a gamble on his talent.

Smith has been dialed in on the Chiefs’ recharged offensive line and has played like the steal of the draft. He has allowed only one sack on 159 pass block snaps and he has yet to commit a penalty. Smith has also shown his versatility, playing mostly at guard, but also helping out at tackle.

 

Final line from his scouting report:
Smith has the size and talent to start in the NFL, but the sloppy tendencies and streaky aggressiveness are red flags and there are potential lung-related health concerns. He projects as a high risk/reward potential starter in a power-based scheme

 

Quote

Asante Samuel Jr., Los Angeles Chargers (2nd round, No. 47)

 

For over a decade, Asante Samuel was one of the NFL’s best ballhawks, collecting 51 interceptions over his illustrious career. It only makes sense that his son would follow in his footsteps. Six rookies have recorded an interception through the first four weeks of the NFL season, but only Samuel Jr. has multiple picks. He also has five passes defended while allowing only six catches.

 

The eighth cornerback drafted, Samuel’s lack of size will show up in coverage and he had a costly pass interference penalty on Monday night while trying to cover Henry Ruggs. But he plays with the confidence and ball skills reminiscent of his Pro Bowl father and has unsurprisingly out-played several corners drafted ahead of him.

 

Runner-up: Eric Stokes, Green Bay Packers (1st round, No. 29)

 

Opponents haven’t been shy attacking Stokes in coverage as the rookie has seen 22 targets already. However, he has done a nice job allowing only 12 catches on those targets, averaging 8.1 yards per reception. Stokes notched his first career interception on Sunday against the Steelers and he now leads all rookies with six passes defended, which is also tied for second-best in the NFL

 

Remembering when everyone in the NFL world was ****ting on the Packers for not appeasing Aaron Rodgers and picking Stokes over some sort of receiver?  As if he didn't already have the best receiver in the NFL to throw to.  Yeah maybe they should all STFU.  That team is going to win 13 games again.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think the Stafford pursuit was very real.  I was referring just to the draft prospects.  It wouldn't have taken a crazy haul to get Fields or Jones or Mills/Mond/Trask but they clearly weren't very interested in any of them, or else they'd have pulled that trigger.  Our need couldn't have been more powerful than it was last offseason. 

 

I know its sort of uncool to tout people in the media especially those who cover sports.  But I'll take a chance and be a bit unhip and say Keim is a gem.   Not because he gets everything right, no one does, not even Adam Schefter, but because he nails so much in part because he's so reluctant to share things unless multiple sources back that tidbit.  As he likes to say he hates getting anything wrong because his credibility means everything to him.  Cooley likes to goof on Keim by saying he's rarely wrong because he won't say anything unless 7 sources back it.

 

Long story short, its Keim who nailed among other things their interest in Gibson before that draft.  Also that they wanted both Payne and Guice in that draft among other things.  As to FA, he did a session once for fans who listened to his podcast.  I was one among the fans who tuned in, and I'll just say he nailed a key part of this years FA.

 

So when he says something.  And 2 other reporters including Mike Silver who is super tight with Rivera says the same.  And Rivera himself alludes to the same thing.  The odds on its accuracy I'd say is just about 100%.  

 

That was, they liked 2 QBs in this draft (the thought was Fields was one of them) but didn't love them to the extent where they'd have traded the moon for that QB.  But the interest was real.  If Fields dropped to the mid teens according to some they would have pounced.  It's not that they loved what they had in house at QB but they didn't think they were at a place with the roster where they could mortgage major draft capital.   Rivera talked about this multiple times this off season saying he wanted a more loaded roster before making an aggressive move like that in the draft. 

 

As for Mac Jones, I don't recall if it was Keim or someone else who said they'd have likely taken him at 19 but they didn't love him to the extent they were willing to trade up.  There wasn't a ton of smoke around Mac Jones one way or another so on that point I am not confident on. 

 

Mike Silver who is supposedly the closest to Ron Rivera and broke the Rivera hire before it became public wrote a long article about the process.  And he actually wrote it specfically for the team's web site.  But even if that didn't happen, Rivera multiple times in interviews this summer was pretty forthcoming on what they were thinking in the draft and yep QB was on their mind but they want said QB to fall closer to their pick.  

 

https://www.washingtonfootball.com/news/washington-football-ron-rivera-explains-signing-ryan-fitzpatrick

 

Then, heading into the draft, Rivera thought hard about trading up to acquire a quarterback. Ultimately, he balked at the price, instead staying put and selecting Kentucky linebacker Jamin Davis with the 19th overall pick.

Faith in Fitzpatrick's abilities was one reason Rivera, general manager Martin Mayhew and executive vice president of football/player personnel Marty Hurney ultimately felt comfortable staying away from the bright, shiny objects. There was also a foundational philosophy at play.

Intent on building the team from front to back -- a process validated by the strong line play that fueled Washington's second-half surge, surprising NFC East title (albeit with a 7-9 record) and stirring playoff performance against the eventual Super Bowl champion Buccaneers in his first season -- Rivera resisted the quick fix.

 

"We didn't have the pieces in place to say, 'All we have to do is get a quarterback we can win now,'" Rivera explained during training camp as he sat in his luxuriant office at the team's training facility. "I felt that if we could continue to put the rest of the pieces in place, why not do that? We like the guys that we have, and we like where we are, so why not add on a couple of pieces? Then, as we went through it, we felt, Wow -- we're shoring up the defense in free agency and the draft. Wow -- we got a slot receiver and a speed receiver in free agency and drafted a speed receiver. Now let's see if we can get everybody trained, get a veteran quarterback and see what happens."

 

There was a point in late January when Rivera believed Stafford might be that veteran quarterback. Washington had made an opening offer that included first- and third-round selections in the 2021 draft, and there was a palpable sense in the building that they could close a deal with the Lions. Then came the Saturday Night Surprise: Rivera, like many others around the league, was stunned when he learned that Detroit had instead agreed to trade Stafford to the Rams for two future first-round picks, a 2021 third-round choice and Jared Goff, with L.A. having sweetened the package in an effort to shed Goff's contract.

At various times, Rivera contemplated making a run at Wilson, Watson (before his legal troubles surfaced, including 22 civil lawsuits accusing the Texans quarterback of sexual assault and sexual misconduct) or Rodgers, whose dissatisfaction with the Packers became public hours before the start of the draft. In each case, they concluded that the price was prohibitive. Said Rivera: "Who wouldn't check in with those teams and do their due diligence to see what the cost would be to get a guy of that caliber?"

Similarly, while assessing the prospective cost of moving into the draft's top 10, the notion of including a core player in the deal was a non-starter to Rivera.

"That would have defeated the whole purpose," Rivera said. "We're trying to build a team, not give up building blocks. Some people wanted way too much draft capital for the next two years. We weren't through building. If we mortgaged our future on a player -- and maybe he isn't the right guy, and maybe we can't afford to keep our core -- it could have really set us back."

Edited October 6, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Najee seems like a waste of a pick for the Steelers if they don't improve that OL to help him out.  He should've gone to a team that was capable of a run game.

[Going Commando]

35 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

He played Tennessee first game out and mauled us.

 

Georgia Tech too.  And that's a good defense they were able to wear down and then knock out.  I'm salty about Jeff Sims getting hurt on a late hit when he slid and there was no call.  But the game was over in the first half.

 

I don't see Herbert in Pickett.  Herbert is a cool customer in the pocket whereas Pickett is nervy and dancey.  Herbert's also way bigger and has an elite arm.  But I really see Matt Stafford in Pickett.  Tough gamer of a QB who really sees the whole field well, and who can drive the ball with accuracy downfield, but he needs to be able to fully set up and step through his throws to generate the arm strength to hit those throws outside the numbers.  Stafford has more of an arm than Pickett does, but the pocket style and body language, the creativity, and the beautiful spinning touch and placement on downfield throws are eerily similar to me.

 

Also wanted to say that his receivers are pretty awesome.  Jordan Addison is a total stud and looks like a future first rounder in a modern NFL where 175 lb receivers can dominate.  I wish they'd had another year with all of that ridiculous talent on defense last season, because if you pair that group with this offense, they could have had a special season.

 

Haven't wanted to post this comparison before, but Jeff Sims is like a little baby Lamar Jackson.  He's certainly not the player Lamar was as a sophomore, and I have a hard time seeing him blowing up and becoming a similar household name for CFB, and I think he's going to need all four years to develop enough as a passer to have NFL potential.  But there is a striking resemblance between them in playing style.  And I don't think many people foresaw Malik Willis becoming a potential first rounder in 2019.  Sims is an interesting prospect for 2024.