AP: DA: Man should die for teen’s rape, murder, dismemberment

[visionary]

https://www.apnews.com/a3a707870a454d808c9271eb24944452?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APEastRegion&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

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DA: Man should die for teen’s rape, murder, dismemberment

 

A Pennsylvania man should be put to death for killing and dismembering his girlfriend’s 14-year-old daughter as part of a rape-murder fantasy he and the teen’s mother shared, a prosecutor declared Friday as he described how the victim fought for her life.

 

Jacob Sullivan, 46, pleaded guilty to all charges last month in a case that raised questions about the child welfare system’s failure to protect Grace Packer, who spent years in an abusive home before she was raped, drugged, bound and gagged for hours and then, finally, strangled in the attic of a suburban Philadelphia home in 2016.

 

Prosecutors said Grace’s adoptive mother, Sara Packer, plotted the crime with Sullivan and watched him violate and kill her daughter. Sara Packer, a former foster parent and county adoptions supervisor, agreed to plead guilty in exchange for a life sentence and is scheduled to testify at the penalty phase of Sullivan’s trial, which opened Friday outside Philadelphia. It’s expected to last several days.

 

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Sara Packer and her husband at the time, David Packer, adopted Grace and her brother in 2007. The couple cared for dozens of foster children before David Packer was sent to prison for sexually assaulting Grace and a 15-year-old foster daughter at their Allentown home, about an hour outside Philadelphia.

Sara Packer lost her job as a Northampton County adoptions supervisor in 2010 and was barred from taking in any more foster children.

 

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Sullivan has admitted he punched and raped Grace, bound her hands and feet with zip ties and stuffed a ball gag in her mouth. Prosecutors said Sullivan and Packer also gave her what they intended to be a lethal dose of over-the-counter medication and left her to die in a sweltering attic.

 

Grace eventually managed to escape some of her bindings and spit the gag out, but was unable to make it out of the house before Sullivan and Packer returned the next day — some 12 hours later — and Sullivan strangled her.

 

The couple stored her body in cat litter for months, then hacked it up and dumped it in a remote area where hunters found it in October 2016, prosecutors said.

 

Abington Township Detective Cindy Pettinato, who investigated Grace Packer’s disappearance, testified Friday that Sara Packer seemed unconcerned her daughter was gone, quickly ridding the house of her daughter’s belongings.

 

[LD0506]

He should, and the "mother" should as well, something slow and painful, like scaphism

[skinsmarydu]

Horrible. 

It reminds me of the Karla Homolka case. She let her husband rape and kill her younger sister. 

Hell is too good for some people. 

[DogofWar1]

It's cases like this that keep me from being 100% on the "get rid of the death penalty" bandwagon.

 

The sheer amount of evil to do that.  Poor girl.

[Spaceman Spiff]

36 minutes ago, DogofWar1 said:

It's cases like this that keep me from being 100% on the "get rid of the death penalty" bandwagon.

 

The sheer amount of evil to do that.  Poor girl.

 

I'm on the fence about it.  When someone like this pleads guilty, I think I'm good with it.  On the other hand, knowing this guy could rot in prison and having to fend for himself amongst the inmates is a good fate for him, too.  Sometimes I think a needle with lethal chemicals is an easy way out.  He should have to experience fear, pain and suffering.

[DogofWar1]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'm on the fence about it.  When someone like this pleads guilty, I think I'm good with it.  On the other hand, knowing this guy could rot in prison and having to fend for himself amongst the inmates is a good fate for him, too.  Sometimes I think a needle with lethal chemicals is an easy way out.  He should have to experience fear, pain and suffering.

 

That's fair too.

 

I dunno.  I just want those kinds of people out of society.  Once they're out of society, I guess I'm not too worried about death penalty vs. not.

[visionary]

I still can't get over the fact that this poor girl was assaulted by her adopted father and spent years afterwards with this same woman as her mother before the woman finally had her raped and murdered (among other things).  Who knows what else went on in the meantime....  😡

[Renegade7]

3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I'm on the fence about it.  When someone like this pleads guilty, I think I'm good with it.  On the other hand, knowing this guy could rot in prison and having to fend for himself amongst the inmates is a good fate for him, too.  Sometimes I think a needle with lethal chemicals is an easy way out.  He should have to experience fear, pain and suffering.

 

Does anyone really want someone like this near someone who isnt doing life in prison?  I keep hearing about people in prison someone like this would have to worry about, isnt it clear he would be one of those people you'd have to worry about?

 

There's a clear difference between those that are deemed to be able to come back into society at some point and those that arent.  They should be separated, and this guy needs a cheaper form of execution.

[TheGreatBuzz]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

this guy needs a cheaper form of execution.

I heard a story one time (no clue if its true) that a country, China I think, would shoot the person in the back of the head and then send their family a bill for the bullet.  Cold as ice.

[Renegade7]

6 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I heard a story one time (no clue if its true) that a country, China I think, would shoot the person in the back of the head and then send their family a bill for the bullet.  Cold as ice.

 

There's gotta be some middle ground between the current expensive methods and the ways they used to do it back in the day.  There just isn't same level public indifference to chopping at back of someones neck because the sword is too dull.  Maybe we should have a thread on forms of execution one would support, like chloroform and a custom made captive bolt pistol specifically for humans for the base of the skull.

[visionary]

Yeah, I'm generally against execution, but there are some cases I think it may be necessary.

I'm not sure what I think would be best to deal with this guy (the woman already has life in prison, unless maybe there's more charges to come?)

I hate to think though about people that might be harmed by them in the future though (in or out of prison)

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Does anyone really want someone like this near someone who isnt doing life in prison?  I keep hearing about people in prison someone like this would have to worry about, isnt it clear he would be one of those people you'd have to worry about?

 

There's a clear difference between those that are deemed to be able to come back into society at some point and those that arent.  They should be separated, and this guy needs a cheaper form of execution.

 

I don't think it's exactly clear that this is the type of person you'd have to worry about.  You might be right, but I don't totally think so.  Yeah, he's ****ed in the head and capable of crazy ****, no doubt about it.  But unless there's someone in jail that's the size of a 14 year old girl, I don't think there's many in there that would be worried about him.  Keep in mind here, the size and strength of his victim.  I'm not going to get too deep into the psychology of his crime, but power plays a part.

 

Lock him up with a convicted murderer of someone else than a defenseless teenage girl who's serving a life sentence with no chance of parole and we'll see who's going to worry about who.   Look at what happened to Dahmer, that's a perfect example.  

[Renegade7]

38 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I don't think it's exactly clear that this is the type of person you'd have to worry about.  You might be right, but I don't totally think so.  Yeah, he's ****ed in the head and capable of crazy ****, no doubt about it.  But unless there's someone in jail that's the size of a 14 year old girl, I don't think there's many in there that would be worried about him.  Keep in mind here, the size and strength of his victim.  I'm not going to get too deep into the psychology of his crime, but power plays a part.

 

Lock him up with a convicted murderer of someone else than a defenseless teenage girl who's serving a life sentence with no chance of parole and we'll see who's going to worry about who.   Look at what happened to Dahmer, that's a perfect example.  

1

 

Wasn't exactly a small dude from what I can tell:

 

 

And I want to add that even though I'm a huge proponent of the death penalty, a big reason why is because I don't believe we should be relying on the prision population to do our dirty work for us.  I don't believe in encouraging an environment where people have to fear for their lives while in jail, I'm just skipping the plesantries.

[Spaceman Spiff]

5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Wasn't exactly a small dude from what I can tell:

 

 

 

And I want to add that even though I'm a huge proponent of the death penalty, a big reason why is because I don't believe we should be relying on the prision population to do our dirty work for us.  I don't believe in encouraging an environment where people have to fear for their lives while in jail, I'm just skipping the plesantries.

 

Dude looks like the Undertaker back in the day.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about his size, I was talking about his choice of victim and the power dynamic there.  Just because he's big doesn't mean he's capable of defending himself adequately.  

 

Like I said, I flip flop on the issue, it depends on the day.  If this guy got the needle, I wouldn't be upset about it.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Dude looks like the Undertaker back in the day.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about his size, I was talking about his choice of victim and the power dynamic there.  Just because he's big doesn't mean he's capable of defending himself adequately.  

 

Like I said, I flip flop on the issue, it depends on the day.  If this guy got the needle, I wouldn't be upset about it.

 

I feel you, and I did get your point.  I guess mine comes back to when you talking about someone who's dismembering people, they aren't going to have many qualms about doing a favor likely, doesn't matter how big or small that person was that they did that to.  We're talking about a very different combination of switches flipped on and off then the rest of us.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I feel you, and I did get your point.  I guess mine comes back to when you talking about someone who's dismembering people, they aren't going to have many qualms about doing a favor likely, doesn't matter how big or small that person was that they did that to.  We're talking about a very different combination of switches flipped on and off then the rest of us.

 

Yup, that dude has no qualms about doing some terrible stuff.

 

And like I said, when someone pleads guilty, I've got less of a problem with the death penalty.  It's the wrongly accused that I'm concerned about.

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yup, that dude has no qualms about doing some terrible stuff.

 

And like I said, when someone pleads guilty, I've got less of a problem with the death penalty.  It's the wrongly accused that I'm concerned about.

 

 

I'll be honest, that's one of my biggest problems with the death penalty, but not for the reason that I think a lot of people think about.  

 

From one of my last convos with @Predicto , he explained how one of the reasons death penalty cases are so expensive is the number of resources devoted to making sure they are guilty, not just the drugs for lethal injection.  It took moment for me to digest that, but if he was here now, my first question is why we don't devote those same resources to people that we give life sentences to?  Think we'd be having a different conversation if we really did do everything we could to prove someone was worthy of the punishment bestowed upon them, life without parole feels like a catch-all right now, maybe we'd think twice about it.   

 

But I agree, if someone pleads guilty, that just makes it easier to do it, not more likely to be more lenient.  Him pleading guilty shouldn't protect him from the punishment he deserves, part of me thinks he knows that, and just trying to get it out the way.

[Nerm]

Overall, I am uncomfortable about the death penalty due to the possibility of wrongful convictions and the inconsistency of applying the punishment based on the demographics of the accused and victim.  However, there are some people that I absolutely believe need to die for what they have done.

 

The one that sticks in my mind is the killer of Polly Klass.  He was convicted of raping and killing the 12 year old.  When he went on the stand during the sentencing for that, he used the opportunity to taunt the family of the little girl.  Said that her final words were something like "you aren't going to do me like my daddy does are you?"  I just feel so much rage when thinking about that.

[skinsmarydu]

14 minutes ago, Nerm said:

Overall, I am uncomfortable about the death penalty due to the possibility of wrongful convictions and the inconsistency of applying the punishment based on the demographics of the accused and victim.  However, there are some people that I absolutely believe need to die for what they have done.

 

The one that sticks in my mind is the killer of Polly Klass.  He was convicted of raping and killing the 12 year old.  When he went on the stand during the sentencing for that, he used the opportunity to taunt the family of the little girl.  Said that her final words were something like "you aren't going to do me like my daddy does are you?"  I just feel so much rage when thinking about that.

If my...wow. I just wanna throw up. 

[DCSaints_fan]

2 hours ago, Nerm said:

Overall, I am uncomfortable about the death penalty due to the possibility of wrongful convictions and the inconsistency of applying the punishment based on the demographics of the accused and victim.  However, there are some people that I absolutely believe need to die for what they have done.

 

The one that sticks in my mind is the killer of Polly Klass.  He was convicted of raping and killing the 12 year old.  When he went on the stand during the sentencing for that, he used the opportunity to taunt the family of the little girl.  Said that her final words were something like "you aren't going to do me like my daddy does are you?"  I just feel so much rage when thinking about that.

 

Yeah I totally get that.    I've tried coming up with legal framework under which the death penalty could be applied that removes the possibility of killing someone who didn't commit the crime.   I had this concept  "overwhelming evidence" vs. simple "beyond a reasonable doubt", but I'd bet any lawyer would take that apart in arguments.    

 

The one case that I remember reading about was Willingham in Texas.  Most likely his children died in a fire which was caused by a space heater, not intentionally set as the prosecution claimed.  But he was convicted, in part I believe because he was somewhat of a lowlife and **** husband. 

 

And after watching the Netflix series Making of Murder and I Am A Killer, you can see how prosecutors do some really shady, if not downright illegal stuff to make sure the defendants get convicted and face the max penalty. 

[Nerm]

37 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

If my...wow. I just wanna throw up. 

 

The judge in the case talked about how hard the decision to impose the death penalty usually is.  Then thanked the guy for making it an easy decision.  However, that was around 20 years ago... Still in the appeals process.

[Destino]

There isn’t a single horrible thing that could be done to these people that would garner any sympathy from me.  It’s a little frightening to think about, because I like to imagine myself better than that.  More righteous.  They could be flayed alive, and my only worry would be for the mental health of the executioner.  

 

 

[Renegade7]

Can we get this 100% right?  How many people aren't in jail right now that should be?  Is that an argument for or against the death penalty?  @DCSaints_fan brings up a point about how sometimes it's not the evidence that decides who lives or dies, its the lawyers.  That makes this even harder no matter where you stand on this issue.  There's a serious need for reform here no matter what you believe.