stevemcqueen1

2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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Watching Daniel Jones, I just don't see first round talent.  All of that first round talk feels like hype from his bowl game, but the rest of his season was not that impressive.  I get that he's big and he can run, but that's not enough IMO.  The field vision and the arm just aren't there.  He can't drive the ball outside the numbers or attack seams along the hashes without setting his feet and winding up.  And I've read he's a guy who wins with touch, but his placement doesn't look special.  Definitely don't see it on the bucket throws, to me Lock and Murray are tremendously better deep ball passers.  I know his WRs sucked, but his low completion percentage is not fully explained by drops.

 

I don't want to draft another Alex Smith, and that's what I see in him.  I agree with the assessment that Will Grier is better than him, and I'm not the biggest fan of Grier.  Both of them are second rounders at best IMO.

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Just watched Jon Gruden talk about the QBs (in case its relevant since I've read multiple times Jay and Jon talk almost every day including share football advice -- and don't think the Raiders are drafting a QB).  He pumped up liking Ryan Finley a lot but didn't explain why.  He talked up Lock having a quick arm, poise, charisma.  Daniel Jones he goes he likes his athletic skills.

 

Though I do recall from Gruden's QB school shows for ESPN he easily falls for almost every QB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Obviously Sills isn’t nearly the prospect that Doctson was coming out.  But... I like him a touch more when comparing him with what Doctson seems to be now.  Honestly though, the only way I consider him is with our second 5th or later... or if we draft Grier.  

 

Regarding Hockenson, I don’t imagine we’ll go for him, but getting our own version of the stud, do-it-all TE would be very welcome.  

 

It’s going to be interesting to see how things play out, because for job security, I don’t think Gruden can survive if we field another plodding, relatively low scoring offense.  On the other hand, I imagine Allen will (partially) prioritize adding some defensive pieces.  Not to say they will be working at cross purposes exactly, but I could see them approaching the draft slightly differently.  I do expect we’ll wind up with a qb and a mid round receiver though.  

 

Along those lines, I wonder if Allen doesn’t mind relying on Thompson and Reed because they offer ready made excuses for offensive failures.  There’s a flip side to that coin of course, but... coins are easy to spin, lol.  

Edited by skinny21
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37 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Obviously Sills isn’t nearly the prospect that Doctson was coming out.  But... I like him a touch more when comparing him with what Doctson seems to be now.  Honestly though, the only way I consider him is with our second 5th or later... or if we draft Grier.  

 

Regarding Hockentein, I don’t imagine we’ll go for him, but getting our own version of the stud, do-it-all TE would be very welcome.  

 

It’s going to be interesting to see how things play out, because for job security, I don’t think Gruden can survive if we field another plodding, relatively low scoring offense.  On the other hand, I imagine Allen will (partially) prioritize adding some defensive pieces.  Not to say they will be working at cross purposes exactly, but I could see them approaching the draft slightly differently.  I do expect we’ll wind up with a qb and a mid round receiver though.  

 

Along those lines, I wonder if Allen doesn’t mind relying on Thompson and Reed because they offer ready made excuses for offensive failures.  There’s a flip side to that coin of course, but... coins are easy to spin, lol.  

 

Yeah agree I commented on Sills months back when I talked about Grier, he had good chemistry with him.

 

If I am going with a purely win now verdict, I'd skip QB and draft a pass rusher like Polite at 15 and then go with someone like Lindstrom, Deiter, Bradbury, etc in the 2nd.    Though it wouldn't be nuts to go with Hockenson and then a guard in the 2nd.  But I'd try to develop a monster O line to run the ball and boost the pass rush to make the D line fiercer.

 

It's a good approach long term, too.  I suspect though politics might weigh in and it could effect this draft.  And while I agree you can't win without a QB, I am not feeling that at #15, we'd get a franchise QB so I'd leave it to 2020.  Keep in mind if all the teams ahead of us shoot for QBs, it should make trading up if need be much easier in 2020 -- less competitive.  I also think we will have a higher pick.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Can someone put up a chart of some sort that shows what team picks where and there biggest need/projected pick

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51 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Can someone put up a chart of some sort that shows what team picks where and there biggest need/projected pick

This site might be your best bet:

 

https://www.google.com/

 

😁

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J/K, you can try this one:

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2019-nfl-draft-needs-for-all-32-teams

Edited by skinny21
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So it looks like there's only a handful of teams in front of the skins that need a qb..maybe we can draft lock or Grier

Edited by bakedtater1
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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just watched Jon Gruden talk about the QBs (in case its relevant since I've read multiple times Jay and Jon talk almost every day including share football advice -- and don't think the Raiders are drafting a QB).  He pumped up liking Ryan Finley a lot but didn't explain why.  He talked up Lock having a quick arm, poise, charisma.  Daniel Jones he goes he likes his athletic skills.

 

Though I do recall from Gruden's QB school shows for ESPN he easily falls for almost every QB.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wesco from WVU is the real deal.  He will surprise in the NFL.  Stud NFL TE in the making, IMO.  Reminds me of Bavaro.  

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10 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

What do you think is the appropriate draft position for an oft-injured but high talent WR?  Do you project him out as Jordan Reed?  I don't think the team can afford a first or second round pick on a player like that.  Of course, he's worth being drafted  - mid 3rd or compensatory 3rd?  After that it's not until the 5th unless the Skins have some sort of trade down along the way to pick up another draft pick.  Skins could pick up a fourth round pick by moving down only a couple spots (although those looking for a QB will probably jump up right before the Skins).

I'd be ok with him in the second, but thrilled with him in the third. That being said, I would be breaking my own rule. He had the fibula, plus the hamstring injuries and he's a big physical player. He's a lot of missed time waiting to happen. 


The kind of injured player I don't mind is the guy that never missed time during college and gets red flagged for something found during the combine. Jonathan Allen with his shoulders. Maurice Hurst with his heart. This might sound like an off topic example, but Dejuan Blair. Drafted by the spurs in 2010. Dropped to the 2nd round because it was found he had bad knees, despite never missing time during college. Went on to have a great career. 

 

ESPN's update about the senior bowl today was interesting. Not a rave review for Lock. Sounds like about how I feel about him. I think Nasir Adderly could be had a little later in the draft and be part of our solution in the secondary. A big thanks to whoever put me onto him. Also, Deebo Samuel keeps growing on me. Maybe he will put up a poor 40 time and drop a little. I think there is going to be a ton of talent in the 2nd and 3rd rounds this year. How many 2nd/3rd round picks could we get if we dropped back from 15?

 

Drew Lock, Missouri

Team: North | Uniform number: 3 | QB ranking: 3

Lock might be the least consistent of the four North quarterbacks when it comes to anticipatory accuracy and decision-making, but it's obvious after two days of practice that he's the most naturally gifted. If he's put in the right system with a good QB coach and coordinator to bring him along properly, Lock has a chance to develop into a good NFL starter, even though he's not a "plug-and-play" guy for the NFL right now. His trajectory and ball placement on the deep ball are outstanding, but when moved off the spot and then forced to reset his feet before throwing, he struggles with consistency. -- McShay

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Nasir Adderley, S, Delaware

Team: North | Uniform number: 23

Adderley's above-average cover skills continue to show up, as do his above-average balance and fluidity. He matched up with UMass' Andy Isabella and Georgia State's Penny Hart in the slot on Wednesday a bit, and it's really something to see a safety compete in that spot. He has good closing speed, and on a Hart corner route, the smoothness with which he flipped his hips stood out. He also showcased his instincts by reading Duke's Jones and jumping a route in the flat for an interception during 7-on-7s. -- Muench

 

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Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina

Team: South | Uniform number: Samuel has average height but a thick frame, built sort of like Golden Tate. He has been consistently outstanding for two straight days, quick off the line out of the slot and creating after the catch. He has shown the ability to get vertical and is adjusting to every ball thrown in his direction. Stidham at one point was shaking his head after Samuel caught another one of his passes and said, "That dude's a freak." Samuel is the best offensive skill player at this year's Senior Bowl, and I can't see him getting out of the first two rounds in April. -- McShay

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Stevemcqueen1 if I recall was months ago big on Samuel.  I am convinced, looks like great pick in the 2nd if he's there.  I know nothing about Penny Hart but he's another dude getting attention there. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Stevemcqueen1 if I recall was months ago big on Samuel.  I am convinced, looks like great pick in the 2nd if he's there.  I know nothing about Penny Hart but he's another dude getting attention there. 

 

 

 

 

I like Samuel, but I feel like I've heard he's going to be much better suited for the slot.  Guys at the senior bowl practice I had on for a few minutes the other day were comparing him to Golden Tate with better ball skills than Tate had coming out.   That he's the type of guy who CAN play outside, but it much better lined up inside.  Now I think we need playmakers period, so get them where you can, but i wonder if he's the best fit for what we need? 

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34 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I like Samuel, but I feel like I've heard he's going to be much better suited for the slot.  Guys at the senior bowl practice I had on for a few minutes the other day were comparing him to Golden Tate with better ball skills than Tate had coming out.   That he's the type of guy who CAN play outside, but it much better lined up inside.  Now I think we need playmakers period, so get them where you can, but i wonder if he's the best fit for what we need? 

 

He played all over the field and as far as I can tell and if anything did it mostly outside in SC at least in the highlights I watched, he certainly has the size to play outside.   Better on the inside?  Who knows.  But I don't care.   If Paul Richardson can play Z on this team -- I think Samuel could easily do the same or play X.   He's slightly bigger than Garcon who played some X here successfully.

 

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article223041335.html

Deebo Samuel wasn’t the tallest outside receiver for South Carolina, but he did his damage despite that.
 

As he sits out the Belk Bowl, a teammate will try to do the same while moving to a slightly different spot.

USC coach Will Muschamp said Shi Smith will move from the slot to take Samuels’ spot on the outside. Smith spent time there in the spring and in practice, but has played there sparingly through the season.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He played all over the field and as far as I can tell and if anything did it mostly outside in SC at least in the highlights I watched, he certainly has the size to play outside.   Better on the inside?  Who knows.

 

https://www.thestate.com/sports/college/university-of-south-carolina/usc-football/article223041335.html

Deebo Samuel wasn’t the tallest outside receiver for South Carolina, but he did his damage despite that.
 

As he sits out the Belk Bowl, a teammate will try to do the same while moving to a slightly different spot.

USC coach Will Muschamp said Shi Smith will move from the slot to take Samuels’ spot on the outside. Smith spent time there in the spring and in practice, but has played there sparingly through the season.

 

 

I know he played outside, and he has the talent to do so... i just wonder if he's got the ability to do so at the next level. 

 

If we take him, i just hope we use him similar to Tyreek Hill, or Tayvon Austin type.  All over the place.  Don't stick him at X or Y and have him run 5 route's over the course of a game, then wonder why he's not putting up great stats.  The guy can be a matchup problem.

 

I was going by what i heard but looking more into him, I think he would be something this offense needs.  I don't want to see us take Josh Doctson 2.0 and then get upset because the WR production isn't there.  

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Stevemcqueen1 if I recall was months ago big on Samuel.  I am convinced, looks like great pick in the 2nd if he's there.

 

Yeah I follow the Carolina teams a little closer than other schools and catch a lot of their games.  I married into a big Clemson & USC family so their players are usually on my radar.  Deebo stood out, to say the least.  He was far and away their best player.  One of the best offensive players in the conference.

 

Another USC guy that popped for me is their middle linebacker TJ Brunson.  He's going back for his senior season, and he'll be someone to keep an eye on next season.  He looks like their best NFL prospect for 2020.

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B.J. Autry from Jacksonville State 6'5 340 first rep against Dontavius Russell from Auburn was excellent but fell on his butt in the second rep. 

Montez Sweat from Miss. State looked good. Very fast.

Elgton jenkins out of Miss. state looks pretty good.

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11 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

If we take him, i just hope we use him similar to Tyreek Hill, or Tayvon Austin type.  All over the place.  Don't stick him at X or Y and have him run 5 route's over the course of a game, then wonder why he's not putting up great stats.  The guy can be a matchup problem. 

 

SIP is right that USC played him all over the field.  Ran quite a few trick plays for him out of the backfield--he has seven career rushing TDs, which is unusual.  And his kick returning is one of the best parts of his game.  Four career kick return TDs.  16 touchdown receptions.  He's an all purpose yards swiss army knife who can score in a variety of ways.  I don't think a coaching staff will have much trouble coming up with different ways to use him.  The temptation to play him will be strong and he has the versatility to get on the field in a lot of different packages and situations.

 

I think his best position will be on the outside in the Pierre Garcon role as a split end.  He's the type of guy who rises to the challenge of man coverage and he's just going to go out and beat you.  He can release against a press and he has the special body control to adjust to poor throws well down the field and make plays along the sidelines.

 

But I also agree with you that he's got the potential to be a weapon from the slot.  He is definitely not afraid to traipse around the middle of a defense.  He could make stiff hipped safeties and linebackers look silly if they tried to single cover him.  Not sure if he's got the instincts to be elite from the slot though.  Beating zone is more of a mental game.  His blocking is also garbage and he'll cut corners on inside routes.  But one upside is that you could scheme up a lot of good backfield motion with him in the slot and run a potent screen game.

 

And another thing is to let him return kicks.  He can really make teams pay for slipping up and not kicking touchbacks.

 

My biggest concerns with him are about his long speed and his blocking and his injury history.  I think it's a mix that keeps him out of first round consideration, and I could see it even causing him to drop into the third.  He's a short strider who doesn't have that top gear where he can just glide away from defenders down the field.  He gets caught from behind.  Instead, he wins with lateral explosiveness and power.  He also gives absolutely no effort as a blocker, which isn't ideal.  He's not soft, but he is a bit lazy.  And I think he's got sketchy biomechanics and an extremely physical style that makes him a little more prone to injury than most.  We saw how it limited his production at USC.  He was absolutely sensational to start his junior year before breaking his leg, and that really derailed what was shaping up to be a breakout season.  Spent a good portion of this season looking injured and limited too, to the point where he didn't look like his old self until the Ole Miss game in November.

 

He exploded after that though.  He had over 800 all purpose yards in those final five games.

 

I love the way he plays, but I have to temper my assessment of his value due to consideration of his injury history.  Late second feels like his natural range.  Third round is bargain value territory.  And I think there is a good chance we will be able to sit tight and snag him there because of how dense this WR class is in second round value.

 

Right now, my plan would be to hunt for value in the third round at the WR position.  Unless the run on the position happens earlier than I expect, I think the smart play is to stick to BPA and trust someone will be there at one of our thirds.  The only guys I think I would chase in the second round are Butler, Arcega-Whitside, Metcalf, and Marquise Brown.

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Right now, my plan would be to hunt for value in the third round at the WR position.  Unless the run on the position happens earlier than I expect, I think the smart play is to stick to BPA and trust someone will be there at one of our thirds.  The only guys I think I would chase in the second round are Butler, Arcega-Whitside, Metcalf, and Marquise Brown.

 

Marquise Brown has been my guy for months.  Even though he's small he's also not a pure slot guy.  Hands, speeds, route running, YAC.   I think with our weak armed QBs would benefit from having YAC guys like Brown or Samuel.  I have watched a little but not a lot of Metcalf.  To most if his neck injury checks out, he's the #1 receiver in the draft.  Some say he's an athletic freak for his size and if he's healthy for the combine and kills it as some expect -- his stock will rise further. 

 

On another note, I was listening to JP Finlay and Hoffman who were at the combine.    Hoffman goes that they are mega interested in QB, and interviewing everyone at the position.   Finlay said watching Lock up close, he's not accurate at all.  Finlay goes while he's not good at scoping out who the best QBs are, he does tend to nail it when he picks on the QBs that he thinks will struggle in the NFL -- and he thinks Lock will struggle.  He said Finley and Grier looked sharper than Lock as to accuracy. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Deebo Samuel is an incredible athlete. Type of guy I’d love to see in burgundy and gold. Carried game****s in terms of explosive plays. However he seems to be injury prone and I believe that’s because he’s a quick twitch, highly athletic balls to the wall, maximum effort mofo.

 

worth a grab in the second IMO.

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Just listened to Hoffman, he said while yesterday's practice wasn't open he heard that Deebo Samuel killed it, he was the talk of that practice.  And Grier apparently had a good day.

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On 1/22/2019 at 2:09 PM, nonniey said:

Why do we have to go QB?  Going QB when there aren't good prospects available is just asking to be set back even further.  Any-hoo if we do, it is more likely than not going to be a  major reach (sometime those pay off - sometimes but not usually). Given the weakness the Redskins have demonstrated in evaluating talent over the years I'd rather avoid reaching. 

I don't know. I have my eyes on a few guys ...

Will Grier

Ryan Finley

Tyree Jackson

 

I think you'll see Haskins - Murray - Jones gone by our pick. That leaves Lock and Grier. I fear Grier will rise up the boards this off-season and I don't like Lock that much.

 

Best case scenario is you can trade back in the 1st round, add a pick or two, and draft Grier there. I don't think he makes it to our mid-2nd.

 

But let's say we pick Grier at #15. Let's say we start with Colt and eventually move to Grier as the season progresses. If Grier is an absolute disaster (see Nathan Peterman) you go back to the well in 2020 with a likely new head coach and likely have a high draft pick. If Grier plays well, you have someone you can build around. At the worst, you lose your 1st ... and hopefully you can get Grier in the later 1st round and add a couple of 3's

 

Now trading up using multiple future 1sts and getting Lock and having him bust would be a disaster.

 

I think ... if we truly went BPA and just tried to build the roster up ... if you could get a Tyree Jackson in the 3rd that would be good too. Gives you someone to at least kick the tires on and groom. Even if it's for a backup QB role in 3 years to start behind a 2020 1st round pick, that's a decent value.

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25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Hoffman, he said while yesterday's practice wasn't open he heard that Deebo Samuel killed it, he was the talk of that practice.  And Grier apparently had a good day.

Sounds like Grier looked good, as did Deebo. Someone else G&D had on today (Finlay maybe?) said the word was that Lock didn't look good. And he said in the past, he didn't think Davis Webb or Peterman looked good either, so he was kind of hinting Lock could be a bust.

I have to do some more digging on Grier.

 

It's pretty odd. I remember reading articles last year stating that Grier would be one of the top QBs in the class and a likely 1st rounder. Nothing that he did this year seemed to minimize that. He has a similar profile to Baker Mayfield, and also has a similar swagger, and is a high-profile HS recruit too. I just feel like Grier is a guy that might not be as sexy as some of the other guys in the class, but could end up being the best ... which is why it wouldnt shock me if he snuck into the discussion as the 3rd QB behind Murray and Haskins.

 

I've been intrigued by Grier for a year or so. I haven't done a deep dive though. But i think I'd be comfortable with taking him at #15, even if it's a bit of a reach.

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5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Sounds like Grier looked good, as did Deebo. Someone else G&D had on today (Finlay maybe?) said the word was that Lock didn't look good. And he said in the past, he didn't think Davis Webb or Peterman looked good either, so he was kind of hinting Lock could be a bust.

I have to do some more digging on Grier.

 

Yeah it was Finlay mentioned that excerpt about Lock.  I posted about it a few posts above.  Having said that some people who are there have also trashed Grier a little and hyped Lock.  So tough for me to get a consensus on them based on buzz

 

 

 

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