China Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 2/21/2024 at 4:53 PM, China said: Donald Trump Wants to Negotiate With Judge Engoron Donald Trump's attorney requested to propose a new judgment on Wednesday in the former president's civil fraud trial ruling, in which Judge Arthur Engoron ruled that Trump will be fined roughly $355 million. In a lawsuit filed in September 2022, New York Attorney General Letitia James accused Trump, his two adult sons Donald Jr. and Eric, The Trump Organization and two firm executives, Allen Weisselberg and Jeff McConney, of fraudulently overvaluing assets to secure more favorable bank loans and taxation deals. On Friday, Engoron ruled that Trump will be fined roughly $355 million and barred from doing business in New York for three years after a monthslong civil trial from late last year into early January. The trial was to decide the damages Trump would face after Engoron found that he committed fraud by inflating the value of his assets. The other defendants in the case have also faced financial penalties and been barred from doing business in New York for periods of time. Trump, the current GOP frontrunner in the 2024 presidential election, has maintained his innocence in the case and claimed it was politically motivated. On Wednesday, Clifford Robert filed a letter in the New York City civil court addressed to Engoron which argues Trump was "deprived" of the chance to speak out against the ruling before it was filed. According to court records, Roberts requested the chance to propose a "counter-judgment" to Engoron's ruling, adding that it would be "contrary to fundamental fairness" if not allowed to submit a counter-judgment. "Defendants therefore request that the Court set a return date for the Proposed Judgment that affords Defendants sufficient time to submit a proposed counter-judgment. To deprive Defendants of the opportunity to submit a proposed counter-judgment would be contrary to fundamental fairness and due process." Click on the link for the full article So Trump thinks he can negotiate a lower settlement? Good luck with that. Probably not going to help that he spent so much time badmouthing Engoron. I expect a response along the lines of: If you want more of the legalese background into this, this video explains it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I can’t watch those videos where they spend 10 minutes repeating all the stuff we know for like 90 seconds of new information. My brain just can’t handle it. so apologies if it answers this. how the **** is that a thing? is that a thing? a private meeting with the judge after trial to propose a counter judgement Im unsure if I would be more surprised that it is a thing, or that if it isn’t that team stupid over there tried to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 20 minutes ago, tshile said: I can’t watch those videos where they spend 10 minutes repeating all the stuff we know for like 90 seconds of new information. My brain just can’t handle it. so apologies if it answers this. how the **** is that a thing? is that a thing? a private meeting with the judge after trial to propose a counter judgement Im unsure if I would be more surprised that it is a thing, or that if it isn’t that team stupid over there tried to do it It's not a thing. According to the video, under NY law, when the judge decides the case he issues what is called a Decision and Order that describes the factual findings and legal remedies. The sheriffs or police or whomever can't just use that, they need a separate document which is called a Judgement which essentially details the actions to be taken in accordance with the legal remedies portion of the Decision and Order. What has happened is the NY DA sent the court (Engoron) a proposed Judgement. This is not a binding thing, but the recommendations of the NY DA which essentially follow the Decision and Order. Trump's lawyers can do the same, but rather than doing so are ****ing about DA James' proposed Judgement. What will likely happen is that Judge Engoron will tell Trump's lawyers to propose their own Judgement, or changes to James' judgment, and then Judge Engoron will issue the official Judgement. Assuming Trump's lawyers ask for something ridiculous like reducing the payout, which won't fly, the eventual final Judgement will likely closely resemble the DA's recommendation which matches the judge's Decision and Order. Edited February 23 by China 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 And Trump can appeal that judgment but is unlikely to prevail. He's gonna pay, big time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Looks like Trump is having trouble coming up with the money in time to file an appeal, so asked for an extension...and was denied: Judge denies Trump request for 30-day delay in enforcement of damages in New York civil fraud case The judge who presided over the civil fraud case against Donald Trump and his company has rejected his attorney's request to delay enforcing the $350 million judgment against them. "You have failed to explain, much less justify, any basis for a stay," Judge Arthur Engoron wrote in an email Thursday to Trump attorney Clifford S. Robert shortly before he officially signed off on the judgment, which totals over $450 million with pre-judgment interest. In an email to the judge Wednesday, Robert noted that the company has a court-appointed monitor already in place, so "there is no prejudice to the (state) Attorney General in briefly staying enforcement to allow for an orderly post-Judgement process, particularly given the magnitude of Judgement.” A special counsel in the New York attorney general’s office, Andrew Amer, said in a letter to Engoron Thursday that he shouldn't grant Robert's request because the defendants didn’t “provide any basis for staying enforcement of the judgement.” He also noted that the defendants “requested such relief in their post-trial brief, which the Court declined to grant.” Click on the link for the full article 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 hours ago, tshile said: I can’t watch those videos where they spend 10 minutes repeating all the stuff we know for like 90 seconds of new information. My brain just can’t handle it. Many of the Meidas Touch videos do that and I always end up closing the YouTube tab like 2 minutes in lol...and one of their commentators spends half of his video reading verbatim from legal documents, and does it as if it's one gigantic run-on sentence. He's terrible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 So apparently Trump is playing games and trying to change his business addresses to Florida so that the NY AG will have to go through the legal system in Florida to claw back the money (which would undoubtedly slow the whole process down). James is on to him and has advised Judge Engoron: Letitia James Wants to Block Trump From Leaving New York ew York Attorney General Letitia James is asking a judge to block Donald Trump from changing his business address from New York to Florida, arguing that his executives "carry out the business activities" of the Trump Organization at Manhattan's Trump Tower. In a Thursday letter, James urged Judge Arthur Engoron to "reject Defendants' attempt to change the business address of the six entity Defendants to Florida as the record establishes those entities are located in Trump Tower at 725 5th Avenue in New York, the office building in which the executives who carry out the business activities of those entities work." Trump owes New York state almost $454 million, including interest, after a civil fraud trial on charges that he inflated his wealth on financial statements to deceive banks, insurers and others. Engoron handed down a nearly $355 million verdict last Friday, but that figure goes up $87,502 every day that the former president doesn't cover the bill. James has said she plans to seize some of Trump's assets if he fails to pay. On Wednesday, Trump's attorneys had asked Engoron to delay enforcing the multi-million dollar judgment against him for a month, accusing James of an "unseemly rush" by asking the judge to sign off on a proposal judgment just days after the ruling. Trump has 30 days from when a judgment is entered to post bond and appeal. His legal team also told the court that several of the addresses for Trump in James' proposed judgment were incorrect and included "proper address" for those entities, all of which were in Florida. The addresses listed included the Mar-a-Lago estate, the Trump National Golf Club in Jupiter and the Trump National Doral Miami. Click on the link for the full article 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 The clock is now officially ticking. The Judgement has been entered so now Trump has 30 days to come up with $454 million. Judge formally says Trump owes $454 million in civil fraud case, countdown starts for him to put up the money for appeal A New York judge on Friday formally ordered Donald Trump to pay $454 million, including interest, a move that will give the former president one month to post nearly half a billion dollars to appeal the fraud verdict. Judge Arthur Engoron’s signed judgment was posted to the court docket Friday, one week after he found Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump liable for fraud in the civil case brought by New York Attorney General Letita James. Once Trump and the others are served with the judgment, the 30-day clock for them to file an appeal starts. During that period Trump will need to put up cash or post bond to cover the $355 million and additional roughly $100 million in interest he was ordered to pay. The sons were each ordered to pay $4 million back in gains they improperly received because of the fraud. The judge also banned the Trumps from serving as officers of a business entity in New York for several years. Earlier Friday, James posted on X, “Friday feeling: No one is above the law.” Representatives for the Trump Organization have not responded to questions about who will run the company as it faces leadership challenges while Trump is campaigning to clinch the Republican nomination for president in between court appearances. Trump has vowed to appeal. Trump initially asked to delay the judgment for 30 days saying it wouldn’t harm the New York attorney general’s office and would allow for an orderly process given the “magnitude” of the decision. The judge rejected the request saying they didn’t explain or justify a reason to do so. The judge notified both sides in an email Thursday that he would sign off on the proposed judgment drafted by the New York attorney general’s office. “The proposed judgment accurately reflects the spirit and letter of the February 16 Decision and Order,” the judge wrote. Click on the link for the full article 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forehead Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I checked the GoFundMe...1 million after seven days. They're going to need to pick up the pace. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 26 minutes ago, China said: The clock is now officially ticking. The Judgement has been entered so now Trump has 30 days to come up with $454 million. Judge formally says Trump owes $454 million in civil fraud case, countdown starts for him to put up the money for appeal A New York judge on Friday formally ordered Donald Trump to pay $454 million, including interest, a move that will give the former president one month to post nearly half a billion dollars to appeal the fraud verdict. Judge Arthur Engoron’s signed judgment was posted to the court docket Friday, one week after he found Trump, Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump liable for fraud in the civil case brought by New York Attorney General Letita James. Once Trump and the others are served with the judgment, the 30-day clock for them to file an appeal starts. During that period Trump will need to put up cash or post bond to cover the $355 million and additional roughly $100 million in interest he was ordered to pay. The sons were each ordered to pay $4 million back in gains they improperly received because of the fraud. The judge also banned the Trumps from serving as officers of a business entity in New York for several years. Earlier Friday, James posted on X, “Friday feeling: No one is above the law.” Representatives for the Trump Organization have not responded to questions about who will run the company as it faces leadership challenges while Trump is campaigning to clinch the Republican nomination for president in between court appearances. Trump has vowed to appeal. Trump initially asked to delay the judgment for 30 days saying it wouldn’t harm the New York attorney general’s office and would allow for an orderly process given the “magnitude” of the decision. The judge rejected the request saying they didn’t explain or justify a reason to do so. The judge notified both sides in an email Thursday that he would sign off on the proposed judgment drafted by the New York attorney general’s office. “The proposed judgment accurately reflects the spirit and letter of the February 16 Decision and Order,” the judge wrote. Click on the link for the full article Now we just need the daughter-in-law to take control of the RNC to redirect money to reimburse donny for this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 The down ticket candidates are gonna cry real tears! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just observing: I'm pretty sure there's a reason why the GOP has proposed giving her a position which I suspect has a really grand title, and no actually defined duties or authority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 36 minutes ago, Larry said: Just observing: I'm pretty sure there's a reason why the GOP has proposed giving her a position which I suspect has a really grand title, and no actually defined duties or authority. No, her job regardless of title will be to funnel as much money as possible to Trump for either his legal fees or campaign. Trump isn't raising as much money right now and with his civil judgments, he's running out of cash. Remember he's the world's biggest grifter, outside of Putin. And Putin knows he's a loser of elections because fascism hasn't overtaken our courts yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) (I know nothing about being a judge and it’s safe to assume I know nothing about the law) if I were the judge I’d request Trumps team submit a list of civil cases where appeals were allowed while putting up ~1/5 of the judgement (I may be combining $s and doing the math wrong - my point is whatever % he’s asking for) instead of the full judgement with interest as is supposedly required. If this is something the court has a history of doing, then fine. If not - then no. the kicker is you make his lawyers do the work and bill him hourly for the efforts. Edited February 28 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 He's looking for special treatment again. I hope he doesn't get it. Tell him to put up or shut up with the full amount. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, China said: He's looking for special treatment again. I hope he doesn't get it. Tell him to put up or shut up with the full amount. That’s why I like my idea my guess is that’s not really done but we’d get to find out, courtesy of his lawyers running up a bill trying to figure it out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 24 minutes ago, tshile said: That’s why I like my idea my guess is that’s not really done but we’d get to find out, courtesy of his lawyers running up a bill trying to figure it out An unpaid bill as is Trump's wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Well it seems like Trump is trying to sneak some of his assets out of NY and into Florida. Not a good look when you're trying to negotiate a deal for a reduced appeal bond. Trump Wants a Break on $464 Million Judgment. The AG Says Trump Is Sneaking Assets to Florida. Donald Trump is already trying to dodge the colossal $464 million bank fraud judgment, with the former president attempting on Wednesday to appeal the decision without forking over the cash required to challenge the ruling. But as Trump’s lawyers claim he doesn’t have the money to appeal without selling a building, the New York Attorney General claimed Trump is quietly moving his assets to Florida. On Wednesday, the top-line news out of Trump’s bank fraud case was that the former president’s lawyers pulled a classic Trumpian business move—trying to avoid the required step of fronting nearly half a billion dollars to stop the AG from seizing the former president’s assets. Instead, his lawyers offered to cut a cheaper deal with an appellate court, proposing to put up $100 million instead. It’s a hurried attempt to avoid doing what Trump considers the unthinkable: accepting defeat and selling a prized possession in a rush. “In the absence of a stay on the terms herein outlined, properties would likely need to be sold to raise capital under exigent circumstances, and there would be no way to recover any property sold following a successful appeal and no means to recover the resulting financial losses from the Attorney General,” Trump’s lawyers wrote on Wednesday. But when the AG raised objections in court documents to the proposal to put up a reduced amount of collateral, Letitia James drew attention to another matter entirely: Trump appears to be trying to move assets out of her reach. Dennis Fan, a senior assistant solicitor general at the AG’s office, alerted appellate judges at the state’s First Judicial Department that Trump has sneakily relocated business entities from New York to Florida. “There is substantial risk that defendants will attempt to evade enforcement of the judgment (or make enforcement more difficult) following appeal,” Fan wrote, noting that “after the court issued its February 16 order, defendants announced for the first time that various Trump Organization entities operating in New York are allegedly now located in Florida.” “As the court recognized earlier in this case, there is unfortunately a distinct need to ‘ensure that defendants do not dissipate their assets or transfer them out of this jurisdiction,’” he continued. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 To me - that is in and of itself fraud. No idea if it actually is but if it’s not, it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Trump must come up with the full bond amount to cover the $454 million civil fraud trial judgment, appeals court judge rules Former President Donald Trump must come up with the full amount to cover the $454 million verdict in the civil fraud trial, an appeals court judge ruled Wednesday. Associate Justice Anil Singh, however, lifted a ban on Trump’s ability to obtain loans from New York regulated financial institutions, which could allow him to access the equity in his assets to back the full bond amount. Singh denied Trump’s request to delay his obligation to post $454 million until a full appellate panel hears his motion to stay enforcement of that judgment until his appeals of the civil fraud ruling are over. The decision followed an emergency hearing that lasted about 20 minutes. Once the parties file briefs by March 18, the panel will evaluate Trump’s motion and will likely return a decision on the docket by the end of March, according to the clerk’s office. No additional oral arguments are scheduled before the judges render a decision. The 30-day clock for Trump to come up with the judgment began on February 23 so he will need to post the bond right around March 25, when jury selection begins for his criminal trial on charges relating to a scheme to cover up a hush money payment made before the 2016 presidential election. Trump has pleaded not guilty to the charges. The ruling also means that Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump can continue to run the family company, but they will each have to post more than $4 million or secure a bond in that amount to pursue their own appeals. Trump’s attorneys had offered to post a $100 million bond, about one-fourth owed, to go toward the judgment, saying they can’t access the capital market to raise money because of the ban on obtaining loans. They argued that without a stay they would likely be forced to sell properties under “exigent circumstances.” The New York attorney general’s office opposed the offer, saying they want the full amount posted. They said in court papers Trump is not barred from obtaining a bond from an insurer. But one of Trump’s lawyers said bonds require cash and that’s the issue. While this decision gives Trump another potential avenue to raise cash, he still needs to find a lender willing to extend to him a substantial amount of money, even if backed by one or more of his properties. Trump could post the cash amount to cover the judgment. But if he decides to secure a loan, his lawyers told the judge, he would need to raise more than $550 million. Bond underwriters charge about 120% of the judgment and often require cash and other easy-to-sell assets like stocks or bonds as collateral. Click on the link for the full article 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 And now that I think of it, there should be an escalator on penalties when the conduct of the crime is so obvious and egregious you should be punished for not even trying or just being that objectively bad at being a criminal 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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