Voice_of_Reason

Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

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IIRC, Gibbs had very old assistant coaches on his staff. The league is trending towards young minds to lead their clubs.

 

Even Spurrier had an assistant make it as a HC(granted that was...Hue Jackson, lolol people forget he was an assistant here in the Spurrier era).

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On 1/9/2019 at 12:47 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

When was the last blockbuster FA deal the Skins did in the off season?

 

I’ll give you a hint: it was 2009. 

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@Rufus T Firefly eh, the Norman and DJax signings weren’t really blockbuster.  They were big FA signings late in FA.  

 

Its not like they gas up RedskinsOne and fly all over creation picking up every FA around.

 

Also, Norman was a guy coming off of a probowl type season and young.  

 

The previous regime would over pay for guys on the downside of their careers.

 

I wouldn’t call the deal really blockbuster.  I know he was one of, if not the highest paid CB, but it wasn’t the ridiculous 

 

Anybody who can’t see the difference between the Vinny/Dan approach and the Allen approach might need a trip to Dr. Boutros for some LASIK. 

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Yeah, I'm not arguing the merits of FA approaches, just the factual inaccuracy of your statement. You said we haven't given out a blockbuster FA deal to anyone over a period of time where we, in fact, signed Josh Norman to the biggest CB contract in the NFL. Saying such a deal doesn't count as a blockbuster because he was coming off a good year is frankly nonsensical. It has nothing to do with what you said or what point you were making.

Edited by Rufus T Firefly
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Anytime you sign a free agent corner for the largest contract at the position, it’s a splash.  It just so happens that he was nowhere near as effective in this defense therefore making the move a bust.

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The Norman signing was putting lipstick on a pig. You don’t sink that much cash into a cornerback unless you’re a Super Bowl contender and it pushes you over the top.  I hated the signing then and it’s nothing but an albatross now.  The only splash signings we should acquire are either a QB or an elite person pass rusher.

For the record, I would consider Norman and Alex Smith blockbusters.

Edited by mojo

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you could almost argue that the Alex Smith contract is a splashy deal, considering the events that lead up to it.  

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6 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

you could almost argue that the Alex Smith contract is a splashy deal, considering the events that lead up to it.  

Definitely a bigger splash, due to the cost.  The money was one thing, but giving up a third, Fuller and any chance to get something for Kirk at the same time, cleared the pool.

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:57 AM, KDawg said:

 

I don't think a good talent evaluator needs to have played the game at the NFL level, or college level... I think that's putting your search in too narrow of terms and likely to net you a poor fit.

 

The guy you want to hire should be the guy who is best at his job. Fans like to see the guy that they recognize. "Oh snap! I know him! And he was a good player! He must be good!" It works sometimes, and sometimes it doesn't. The team needs to look at someone with experience in the game... I agree with that part. Don't care if it's coaching, playing, scouting, front office, etc... It needs to be someone that has been around the game and can see talent. Not the obvious stuff that any schmoe can see... but can recognize intangibles.

 

There are certain players that you can just get the sense have this extra "it" about them when you're around enough. They may not blow you away physically, but the things they do make you look at them and say, "yup".

 

There are some guys who have all the physical tools but just don't have "it" at all. 

 

And there are times where you need those guys with the tools to fill roles on the team, but not the primary roles. That's an important distinction that a good evaluator also needs o be able to make. 

 

I will say this, though... I've said it before... I don't think our current talent evaluation staff is as bad as people make them out to be. And trust me, I don't want to say anything positive about the FO given the franchise's current state. I think Allen/Payne were absolutely foundation altering moves talent wise. Same with Ion. Reuben Foster, talent wise, was an incredible get. Guice, talent wise, unbelievable get. Thompson, Peterson, Reed, Scherff, even a guy like Roullier, Richardson, Crowder, Dunbar... The list goes on.

 

The problem with this current regime isn't talent evaluation in my opinion. It's organization and team building. And we are severely lacking in those departments. Big time. That's the problem. How do the pieces fit together? How is depth? Are injuries a concern? (yes!). What's the accountability structure? Does the FO make changes based on mistakes they make? Does the FO see their own issues? Are the people responsible for specific areas allowed to control their own areas and therefore accountable for their actions/rewarded for their decisions? What is the hierarchy? What's the vibe around the team?

 

Those are the problems.

 

That's what needs to be fixed.

I agree partially with your take on this. Micheal Jordan was horrid at evaluating players. So that probably would be narrowing the search. You mentioned a nice list there. The only issue I have with it is just about everyone of them have injury history. Lower leg injuries. And guess what? They're all injured or out for most of the season. Now I understand you can't keep a guy from breaking a leg but I'm not sure if these guys are taking care of their bodies properly. Just too many hamstrings and pulls. That tells me they're not listening to guys like Santana Moss who struggled in his early years with hamstring issue. Until he learned about acupuncture, chiropractors and better eating habits, he was always injured. Young people rarely listen to the old heads. I think that's whats happening to a certain extent. But then again, they could simply have low durability.

But after all this conversation, they're keeping everybody. Sheesh!!!

On 1/9/2019 at 12:47 AM, Voice_of_Reason said:

When was the last blockbuster FA deal the Skins did in the off season?

 

I’ll give you a hint: it was 2009. 

 

This overspend narrative from 10 years ago will never die, even though Bruce Allen is a bargain basement cheap ass shopper.

When I say blockbuster, I mean name wise. I don't care too much about what they spend.

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On 1/8/2019 at 9:32 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

I will starts the 2019 Jay Gruden evaluation thread after the SB when it looks like the staff is settled.

 

 

Actually we have other plans, so someone else will be the one to start that thread. Unfortunately you've matched the worst of the RG3-OCD guys in sheer repetition of a fixation---in your case gruden-hate---and spamming it across multiple threads, day in day out, for many months. You haven't picked up on more than a little feedback from a number of members and at least two mods over the last year or so that you've gone over the edge in quantity, mainly, but sometimes in other ways, too.  Of course I'm obviously aware of all the justifications one can make for dumping tons on gruden endlessly, and I'm not even factoring how such criticisms might be debated to various degrees and personally don't care about that debate either way.  

 

So as we did with a couple of the RG3-OCD guys, you're now restricted to posting on gruden only in the one thread specifically about him (this one) and use better judgment about the quantity even in this thread. Now if you want me to close it since the season is over, or it gets closed otherwise for whatever,  then you can post on jay in another appropriate thread that exists, or one that someone else starts in the future. That's all your choice, the idea being pick one thread and one only until your condition ameliorates. ^_^

 

There are familiar ways with which folks respond to such situations, from positive to negative. Choosing one with less influence from the amygdala/limbic system is recommended.

 

As a general matter for newer folks, it's fairly rare but at times we will intervene addressing this type of spamming per rule 3, or just making a moderator directive under rule 18's provisions if preferred by the mod, as it's the kind of posting---high repetition of a singular item across multiple threads, daily or close to it, and over an extended period of time---that is not desirable.

 

Per usual, no one should reply to or comment on this post in the thread as our rules make clear, or be mean to old people. Thank you.

 

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8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

@Jumbo, I think this thread has run its course.  I would close it.

 

 

 

here to serve

 

thank you for your assistance

 

to all: to be clear, jay is not a verboten topic for a new thread of course, like if there's an article or developed premise worthy of such

 

in the meantime there obviously are other threads where commenting on him fits the topic

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