Bozo the kKklown Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: We wanna play that game? Why is it OK for 501(c)3 charities to write letters opposing his appointment? They are forbidden by law, and risk their task exempt status, by endorsing or opposing a political candidate. Oh wait, a SCOTUS nominee is not a political candidate. Further proof that Elway did not enter the political process by supporting a SCOTUS nominee. what is political about not standing for the flag because you feel injustice in your community and want to protest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 14 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: We wanna play that game? Why is it OK for 501(c)3 charities to write letters opposing his appointment? They are forbidden by law, and risk their task exempt status, by endorsing or opposing a political candidate. Oh wait, a SCOTUS nominee is not a political candidate. Further proof that Elway did not enter the political process by supporting a SCOTUS nominee. Seems irrelevant to my comment. I said nothing about Elway entering or not entering the political process. I just said that's ridiculous to differentiate him and Kaepernick by saying his letter was "invisible" whereas Kaepernick's actions were "visible" If it was invisible, Elway could've written the letter on a blank piece of paper or a bar napkin for all I care. He chose the Broncos letterhead for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 33 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said: Lame. How so? The article posted claimed Elway was advancing political beliefs by endorsing the judge. If writing a letter endorsing a judge advances political beliefs, every 501(c)3 charity should lose their tax free exemption for doing the same/opposite. You can't claim endorsement is political but opposition isn't. 33 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: what is political about not standing for the flag because you feel injustice in your community and want to protest? Nothing. It was an overblown, panties in a bunch "controversy." As a vet I stated he had the right to do so. You posted an article that makes a false equivalency, stating that Elway endorsing a judge is political. I said nothing of Kap protesting. 30 minutes ago, balki1867 said: Seems irrelevant to my comment. I said nothing about Elway entering or not entering the political process. I just said that's ridiculous to differentiate him and Kaepernick by saying his letter was "invisible" whereas Kaepernick's actions were "visible" If it was invisible, Elway could've written the letter on a blank piece of paper or a bar napkin for all I care. He chose the Broncos letterhead for a reason. THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IN THE OP CLEARLY STATED. In both text and video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: what is political about not standing for the flag because you feel injustice in your community and want to protest? white, rich, privlieged parents, free ride to college, multi millionaire ...how do i join this community? (im only kidding benning- i know what you meant ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: Nothing. It was an overblown, panties in a bunch "controversy." As a vet I stated he had the right to do so. You posted an article that makes a false equivalency, stating that Elway endorsing a judge is political. I said nothing of Kap protesting. This is why I can't take you serious in this convo. elway didn't get any media storm except one article while Kaepernick and co are still getting grief. you are choosing to ignore that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balki1867 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 24 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICLE IN THE OP CLEARLY STATED. In both text and video. Yes, my comment was in response to an individual poster from this board who didn't agree with that assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 But Kap got out of his contract like he wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Elway is an employee of the team, not the owner. TBH, Even an owner is still part of the NFL, I'm sure the NFL could have rules against that type of thing if they wanted to. The NFL is a business. You make a political stand and it rubs half your crowd against you. I generally in my life have ignored political stuff, meaning, if an actor made a political endorsement, I could care less. However, with Trump, when people come out in support of him, i will not buy their product, watch their movies/tv shows etc... Trump is different. What's going on now is different. My brother and I had a very interesting conversation the other day. Both of us have voted Dem, GOP and 3rd party in our lives. But as of now, more than anything else, we are anti Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 15 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: This is why I can't take you serious in this convo. elway didn't get any media storm except one article while Kaepernick and co are still getting grief. you are choosing to ignore that. And you don't have to take me seriously. My stance is consistent on this matter. What Kap did and what Elway did are not the same thing. So just because Kap caught heat for doing what he did, and Elway didn't, that doesn't illustrate a double standard. If Elway were a black man, he would have received the same treatment as Elway. Kap was seen as taking a POLITICAL stand (rightly or wrongly - no one can deny that the BLM was seen as a Dem cause and blue lives matter/all lives matter was seen as a Rep cause) because he made comments about the flag, the country, and kneeled during the anthem in protest. Elway wrote a letter endorsing the SCOTUS nominee. If you can't see the difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Popeman38 said: Kap was seen as taking a POLITICAL stand good grief, THAT'S THE EFFING POINT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 50 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: good grief, THAT'S THE EFFING POINT First, the article you posted made a false equivalency between what Marshall (and Kap) did and what Elway did. Second, the article you posted was very loose with "facts" like Gorsuch being against abortion. He affirmed in his hearing that a woman has a Constitutional right to have an abortion. That was the end of his statement. He didn't qualify that statement. Third, the article you linked is an opinion piece, meaning the writer is injecting his thoughts into the story. Fourth, Elway did not stand in front of a microphone and decry the flag and the country standing for the oppression of ethnicities. Some people took offense at that and declared he was injecting politics into football. I pointed out that endorsing or opposing a SCOTUS nominee is not political, as evidenced by the fact so many 501(c)3 charities wrote letters to the same committee opposing the nominee. Charities would not do that if endorsing/opposing a SCOTUS nominee was political. For (hopefully) obvious reasons. Look, you can say this is an apples to apples comparison if you want. You can say there is a double standard if you want. I disagree with you on both points, and have offered my reasons for doing so. So far you have told me my "lot lack empathy and compassion" and "can't be taken seriously on this subject" without offering anything more than the original article. You can say a whole lot about my opinions, but you can't claim you don't know were I stand on this specific subject, and how I got to where I stand. Yet you insult and offer no substance to indicate or support your position on this subject (outside given article and insults). I specifically asked you to explain. Nothing. That is not a debate, and it doesn't seem like you care to address any POV other than your own with anything besides insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 You pointed out and actually agreed with what the article is pointing out. If you cannot see that then you are being intentionally obtuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 Just now, BenningRoadSkin said: You pointed out and actually agreed with what the article is pointing out. If you cannot see that then you are being intentionally obtuse. No, I did not. I stated that I didn't think Kap did anything political. Clearly there were plenty of folks who disagree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 9 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Of course its different. It has to be different because you lot lack empathy and compassion. because you are blind and lack empathy and compassion. If you insist. Maybe I just don't like people who whine all the ****ing time about things they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 10 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Of course its different. It has to be different because you lot lack empathy and compassion. OK, the more I let this ruminate today, the more it bothers me. You dismiss the POV opposite you by saying "you lot lack empathy and compassion." Why is this OK? How does anyone accept any line of reasoning if the only line of reasoning that is justified is if it agrees with your own? This doesn't further discourse. This doesn't encourage an open mind. This doesn't invite debate on merit. All it does is slam the door on objectivity. There is a great deal in the tailgate that we agree on, yet you are labeling anyone who disagrees with you as unempathetic and lacking compassion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman Spiff Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: OK, the more I let this ruminate today, the more it bothers me. You dismiss the POV opposite you by saying "you lot lack empathy and compassion." Why is this OK? How does anyone accept any line of reasoning if the only line of reasoning that is justified is if it agrees with your own? This doesn't further discourse. This doesn't encourage an open mind. This doesn't invite debate on merit. All it does is slam the door on objectivity. There is a great deal in the tailgate that we agree on, yet you are labeling anyone who disagrees with you as unempathetic and lacking compassion. Yeah. It's not like he'd ever win me over with his sarcastic comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 None of this is why I watch and enjoy football. I hate that it is all over everything now. Politics spreads it's stench everywhere. Kaepernick can't sniff an interview because he can't play AND he is a distraction, like it or not. That is a by product of making social statements, especially from this platform. It doesn't necessarily reflect anything about whether any coach or team believes in what he did or not, it's a distraction, and a big one. Who needs that? There's a lot of pressure on coaches, win or be fired. A distraction like he can cause, agree with him or not, can get you fired. That and the fact that his 30 INTs will also get you fired. The guys who ran that offense had success in 2012.. they're gone, and not due to any blackballing. It's because of LACKballing.. LAW of football #1: Offense innovates, defense adapts and forces innovation again. defense will always find a way to disrupt offensive schemes, which is why they tend to change so much. Defense dictates, offense must continually evolve.. The Pistoleros,, the guys like Kaep and RG3.. they have been regulated by defense. Elway wrote a letter. so what. If' I'm a Broncos fan, i guess i have to choose if i am going to let politics invade everything i try to use to escape all that.. like my Sunday football. I don't really care what the politics of players and coaches are, and if they choose to make them public, i don't care either. I want to see the football game. And it's totally selfish, i guess, but I watch football ONLY to entertain myself. That's it. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 30 minutes ago, Bang said: None of this is why I watch and enjoy football. I hate that it is all over everything now. Politics spreads it's stench everywhere Pretty much this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Let's see....someone goes all attention whorish and sits, then kneels on national TV knowing that the Mic will be put in his face so he has a chance for even more attention grabbing... A guy writes a private letter to support someone.... Yeah...i see how these are similar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 13 hours ago, Popeman38 said: OK, the more I let this ruminate today, the more it bothers me. You dismiss the POV opposite you by saying "you lot lack empathy and compassion." Why is this OK? How does anyone accept any line of reasoning if the only line of reasoning that is justified is if it agrees with your own? This doesn't further discourse. This doesn't encourage an open mind. This doesn't invite debate on merit. All it does is slam the door on objectivity. There is a great deal in the tailgate that we agree on, yet you are labeling anyone who disagrees with you as unempathetic and lacking compassion. Because you absolutely do lack empathy. You pretty much agreed that there is a difference in perception of the two and thats wrong but then still don't see the hypocrisy. You understood the article but still felt it didn't matter and one was okay while the other wasnt. Your dismissal is what really hurts discourse, not me telling you the truth about yourself. Thats what many white people have done to oppressed groups in this country. I know your fellow board mates will see this as rabble rousing or "making it about race" etc but thats just the truth. You guys dont want to admit it because that doesn't fit the lie this country has told you about white exceptionalism. But even more nuanced, Elway vs. athletes advocacy shows an issue on class and power in this country. Its okay for management to do advocacy but not for rank and file employees. That's the real strong point of the article that a few of your fellow posters in this thread couldn't see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 1 hour ago, BenningRoadSkin said: Because you absolutely do lack empathy. You pretty much agreed that there is a difference in perception of the two and thats wrong but then still don't see the hypocrisy. You understood the article but still felt it didn't matter and one was okay while the other wasnt. Your dismissal is what really hurts discourse, not me telling you the truth about yourself. Thats what many white people have done to oppressed groups in this country. I know your fellow board mates will see this as rabble rousing or "making it about race" etc but thats just the truth. You guys dont want to admit it because that doesn't fit the lie this country has told you about white exceptionalism. But even more nuanced, Elway vs. athletes advocacy shows an issue on class and power in this country. Its okay for management to do advocacy but not for rank and file employees. That's the real strong point of the article that a few of your fellow posters in this thread couldn't see. You are missing a very fundamental difference - Elway was writing a letter in support of a SCOTUS nominee, something so benign and apolitical that charitable groups do it. And just FYI, your source presented a completely inaccurate depiction of the nominee's words and actions. The source is wrong. It lies. It conflates the issues. It is an opinion piece in the sports section. It is in no way authoritative, anymore than a climate-change denier writing an opinion piece in the local paper is authoritative on climate science. The writer is not an expert on the socioeconomic and racial aspects of the story. Just because I don't think Kap or Reid or Marshall or Foster did anything wrong, doesn't mean there weren't a large portion of the people that did. And just because there is a perception difference, that doe not indicate a double standard. The perception is different because the actions are different. Not everything is an affront to progress. And just FYI, you don't know me. You don't know whether I am empathetic or not. You don't know how I feel about a large number of issues. Yet you have no problem labeling me and filing me away as one of a "lot" of unempathetic and uncompassionate people. Here is some nuance: endorsing a SCOTUS nominee is not advocacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted March 24, 2017 Author Share Posted March 24, 2017 22 minutes ago, Popeman38 said: You are missing a very fundamental difference - Elway was writing a letter in support of a SCOTUS nominee, something so benign and apolitical that charitable groups do it. you have missed the fundamental difference. Elway used his platform in sports to make a statement on his views, while athletes have done it and got criticized for it. IDK why you keep bringing up charities as they have nothing to do with this. This was talked about from a strictly sports context. Your continuing to bring up "well charities do it" is only an obfuscation which keeps proving my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popeman38 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said: you have missed the fundamental difference. Elway used his platform in sports to make a statement on his views, while athletes have done it and got criticized for it. IDK why you keep bringing up charities as they have nothing to do with this. This was talked about from a strictly sports context. Your continuing to bring up "well charities do it" is only an obfuscation which keeps proving my point. Only in your mind. Look at the title to the thread you started. It is false and misleading. Elway is not using the Broncos to advance his political beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 So is it a class and power thing or a white privilege thing? btw did Kap get rested up so he no longer sees the need to sit/kneel or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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