Moose & Squirrel v Boris & Natasha: what's the deal with the rooskies and trumpland?

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

Intent's probably the easiest to prove if there is obstruction of justice. He has tweeted endlessly about him wanting the Russia Investigation to go away. No one could ever say Trump lacks "motive" to "obstruct"

 

Now, whether it rises to the legal definition remains to be seen, but there's a lot of smoke and a lot of stink. If you only read what Trump said and ignored the leakers and testimony you might even have a better case for obstruction, but if you add everything that we've been told together and how many actors are involved in this Russia storyline... It really looks bad. In fact, it looks worse than simple obstruction.

 

For all those who say nothing will come of it you are already wrong. A sitting NSA director was fired because of it. That's pretty big in itself. We're already passed the "nothing" stage. Nothing was Benghazi.

Saying you want the Investigation to end or go away is not proof of anything.  I want my Mortgage to go away too but, well, you know what I'm getting at.   I just don't see it Burgold.  I'm not a Trump Fan Boy but I just don't see enough, based on what I've actually seen as credible, to this point and not just crap from left or right leaning sites, that makes me believe that there is enough there.   JMO

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

 

Or Isis maybe?.........

6 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You have made no point, the pic you posted was nothing but an attempt to change the subject from Trump and his continual obstruction of justice to a side topic about an ignorant and stupid demonstration by a loud mouth twit. If only the Right had been as diligent in defense of POTUS when racists were displaying Obama lynchings in their yards. 

 

But again, that's just another distract for you in order for you to claim that The Beloved Leader is innocent. We get it, you believe there is no evidence despite everything else that's fine. You can choose to bs blind.

 

I never defended that.  Maybe I should go back and post a pic of Kali?

[Kilmer17]

30 minutes ago, visionary said:

Trump admitted that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation after putting out a false memo blaming others for the firing.  Comey reportedly said in a memo that Trump told him to leave Flynn alone and stop investigating him, and Comey is reportedly going to say this next week at the hearing.  Trump also reportedly looked into getting a couple intelligence officials (Rogers and Coats) to convince Comey to back off of Flynn and to wrap up the investigation.  (in addition to unsuccessfully trying to make them push back against the public image of the investigation)

When did he admit that he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation?  Are you referring to the Holt interview?  If so, I'll bet you a billion dollars that wont fly as "evidence" in any trial or investigation.

 

I think all of the other stuff is accurate.  In fact, I think Trump fired Comey because he couldnt control him (including his directive of re Russia investigation).  But I dont see how that leads to anything more than more clicks and talking heads bloviating about how bad Trump is.

[LadySkinsFan]

Get the religions correct. Hindu, Kali

[Burgold]

You need to look at time lines, Trump tweets, etc. Imagine a scenario where Sally Yates testifies and it looks really bad for Trump, then Comey is about to testify and the rumor is he is going to confirm that there were Trump campaign members engaging with Russia during the election, Clapper and other people are saying other damning things. Trump shouts, "Enough with Russia. I want the Russia investigation over with," but Comey is still set to testify. So he fires him saying that it was his decision and the firing is about Russia.

[ABQCOWBOY]

36 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Notice how quickly you moved your own goalpost from "no wrongdoing" to "not illegal"?  

 

They are the same in the eyes of the Law I believe.  If that constitutes moving of the goal posts, then guilty as charged.  Of course Larry, I defer to your vast and overwhelming experience in actually moving goal posts.

2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Get the religions correct. Hindu, Kali

 

So....  that's a no on the posting of the pic of Kali then?

[Stadium-Armory]

"I want to see concrete evidence before I support an investigation which attempts to discover the evidence"  is failed logic.

[Kilmer17]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

You need to look at time lines, Trump tweets, etc. Imagine a scenario where Sally Yates testifies and it looks really bad for Trump, then Comey is about to testify and the rumor is he is going to confirm that there were Trump campaign members engaging with Russia during the election, Clapper and other people are saying other damning things. Trump shouts, "Enough with Russia. I want the Russia investigation over with," but Comey is still set to testify. So he fires him saying that it was his decision and the firing is about Russia.

This is the problem with Trump.  He says lots of things.  All contradicting each other.  So he's both wrong, right, evil, dumb, winning and failing all at the same time.

[ABQCOWBOY]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

You need to look at time lines, Trump tweets, etc. Imagine a scenario where Sally Yates testifies and it looks really bad for Trump, then Comey is about to testify and the rumor is he is going to confirm that there were Trump campaign members engaging with Russia during the election, Clapper and other people are saying other damning things. Trump shouts, "Enough with Russia. I want the Russia investigation over with," but Comey is still set to testify. So he fires him saying that it was his decision and the firing is about Russia.

 

That's kind of the problem thou Burgold.  You can't "imagine" what happened.  You have to actually have proof of wrong doing, which I know you understand.  I'm not trying to insult you here.  I just don't think there is enough here.  Honestly, most of it is he said, she said stuff from what I can tell, at this point.

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

This is the problem with Trump.  He says lots of things.  All contradicting each other.  So he's both wrong, right, evil, dumb, winning and failing all at the same time.

 

LOL.......

 

That's pretty good Kilmer.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Alright, this little forray into the mind of a 33%er has been fun but I've got better things to do than argue with a GOPer-bot.

[Burgold]

We were just talking about intent or motive. I think there's enough there to establish either of those. Now, is there enough to prove guilt... not yet, but we don't know everything yet. In fact, we know practically nothing of what the FBI, CIA, etc. knows.

[ABQCOWBOY]

2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Alright, this little forray into the mind of a 33%er has been fun but I've got better things to do than argue with a GOPer-bot.

 

Well said.   Bye.......

[Kilmer17]

Just now, Burgold said:

We were just talking about intent or motive. I think there's enough there to establish either of those. Now, is there enough to prove guilt... not yet, but we don't know everything yet. In fact, we know practically nothing of what the FBI, CIA, etc. knows.

Do you personally think that Trump (and by extension his campaign) worked directly with Russia to gain advantages in the election?  Is that what we're really talking about?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, Burgold said:

We were just talking about intent or motive. I think there's enough there to establish either of those. Now, is there enough to prove guilt... not yet, but we don't know everything yet. In fact, we know practically nothing of what the FBI, CIA, etc. knows.

 

This thing is going to continue on regardless.  I mean, I'm not even trying to question that but I don't think you are going to find enough to get Trump on anything, with regards to this.  That is just my opinion Burgold.

[Burgold]

You may be right. Sadly, I think the result is most dependent on the make up of Congress. What I mean by that is that I am not sure that they will go after him no matter what the findings. I don't think there is a degree of wrongdoing or even treason that would rise to actionable in their book. I do think several more will fall on the sword by the end. Flynn is only the first casualty of the collusion between the Trump Administration and Russia.

 

Follow the money and the tweets.

[twa]

41 minutes ago, visionary said:

Trump admitted that he fired Comey because of the Russia investigation after putting out a false memo blaming others for the firing.  Comey reportedly said in a memo that Trump told him to leave Flynn alone and stop investigating him, and Comey is reportedly going to say this next week at the hearing.  Trump also reportedly looked into getting a couple intelligence officials (Rogers and Coats) to convince Comey to back off of Flynn and to wrap up the investigation.  (in addition to unsuccessfully trying to make them push back against the public image of the investigation)

 

The memo did not say that....but perhaps we can get some clarity from Comey soon.

 

[Burgold]

4 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Do you personally think that Trump (and by extension his campaign) worked directly with Russia to gain advantages in the election?  Is that what we're really talking about?

 

I think so. More, I think they worked to figure out how Russia could grease Trump's and his cohorts palms in exchange for policies and actions that would benefit Russia.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just now, Kilmer17 said:

Do you personally think that Trump (and by extension his campaign) worked directly with Russia to gain advantages in the election?  Is that what we're really talking about?

 

 

I don't know.  I mean, I honestly think it's just as likely that it could have happened with Clinton.  I think Russia is a country that tries to exploit targets of opportunity.   If the opportunity is there, they do what they can because it's in their best interests.  Nothing has to actually happen or work, they just float dis-information and see where it goes.  Seriously, if you look at what is happening now, in this country, we are focused on all the wrong stuff.  We should be working on more important issues IMO.  The longer we are looking the other way, the better for Russia.  Look at the role Wiki Leaks has played in the last administration.  That is all primarily Russian supported messaging.

 

We are stupid for fetching the ball every single time on this.  JMO

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I think so. More, I think they worked to figure out how Russia could grease Trump's and his cohorts palms in exchange for policies and actions that would benefit Russia.

 

I see no proof of that, to this point.  It might be true but I don't think there is anything that you can point to that gets Trump.  I will tell you this, I am not real sure how much the left will want this investigation to go on.  If they start looking at the Clintons and their links to Russia, that could get really ugly, real fast.  That is easy to follow the money on.  On the other hand, Hillary kinda threw the DNC under the bus just recently so who knows?

[RedskinsMayne]

1 hour ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

I do not know the validity of the whole "I want Flynn back" statement.  However, that really is not proof of wrong doing.  Without proof, nothing is going to happen.

 

I support Trump, but man, Trump kept pence in the dark about Flynn until the news broke a week later. That says all that needs to be said about how Trump feels about Flynn.

 

I don't think not reporting visits to Russia is high treason though... the guy didn't report the meanings probably because all the anti-Trump media coverage regarding Russian interference in the election. Kind of dumb to think he wouldn't get caught though. 

[ABQCOWBOY]

1 minute ago, RedskinsMayne said:

 

I support Trump, but man, Trump kept pence in the dark about Flynn until the news broke a week later. That says all that needs to be said about how Trump feels about Flynn.

 

I don't think not reporting visits to Russia is high treason though... the guy didn't report the meanings probably because all the anti-Trump media coverage regarding Russian interference in the election. Kind of dumb to think he wouldn't get caught though. 

 

Flynn, IMO, was a bad move.  He is what he is.  To me, this Administration just needs to move on with that guy.  They need to focus on the economy, tax reform, defense and a decent health plan.  This other stuff is background noise if they get something real done on those issues IMO.

[Burgold]

10 minutes ago, ABQCOWBOY said:

 

 

 

I see no proof of that, to this point.  It might be true but I don't think there is anything that you can point to that gets Trump.  I will tell you this, I am not real sure how much the left will want this investigation to go on.  If they start looking at the Clintons and their links to Russia, that could get really ugly, real fast.  That is easy to follow the money on.  On the other hand, Hillary kinda threw the DNC under the bus just recently so who knows?

I was asked what I believed... not what I could prove

[RedskinsMayne]

Media and Trump won't let that covefe...

[TradeTheBeal!]

25 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is the problem with Trump.  He says lots of things.  All contradicting each other.  So he's both wrong, right, evil, dumb, winning and failing all at the same time.

 

When has Trump ever contradicted himself regarding his admiration for Putin?

 

BTW, We've tallied 5 "Obamas", 8 "Hillarys" and 6 "Im not a Trump guys" in less than 90 minutes.  It's a script.

[DogofWar1]

22 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

This is the problem with Trump.  He says lots of things.  All contradicting each other.  So he's both wrong, right, evil, dumb, winning and failing all at the same time.

I think it's a bit much to handwave him away as never internally consistent.

 

He contradicts everyone around him, sure.  But he is more consistent internally than I think people give him credit for.

 

He has not, for example, ever said the KremlinGate investigation was NOT a witch hunt.  He has been very consistent in that.  He has been very consistent in his Russia friendship.

 

His internal inconsistencies are generally due to his staking out if indefensible positions which he naturally must later abandon, or due to his showmanship personality, where he likes to build suspense and so pretends he doesn't know what he's gonna do/what's gonna happen, but behind the scenes he knows.

[ABQCOWBOY]

Just now, Burgold said:

I was asked what I believed... not what I could prove

 

Oh, OK.  My bad, and that opinion is perfectly fine with me.  I am seriously not a Trump guy.  It would not hurt my feelings if he did wrong and was then nailed to the wall for it.  I actually like Mike Pence light years more then I do Trump. 

7 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

When has Trump ever contradicted himself regarding his admiration for Putin?

 

BTW, We've tallied 5 "Obamas", 8 "Hillarys" and 6 "Im not a Trump guys" in less than 90 minutes.  It's a script.

 

And yet, those points are still not clear and accepted.  Perhaps that is the real issue?

[visionary]