The Brexit Thread

[visionary]

 

[DoneMessedUp]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/corbynism-labour-left-party

 

Quote

 

Well, guess what. Labour’s “radical” manifesto of 2019 achieved precisely nothing. Not one proposal in it will be implemented, not one pound in it will be spent. It is worthless. And if judged not by the academic standard of “expanding the discourse”, but by the hard, practical measure of improving actual people’s actual lives, those hate figures of Corbynism – Tony Blair and Gordon Brown – achieved more in four hours than Corbyn achieved in four years. Why? Because they did what it took to win power.

 

That’s what a political party is for. It’s not a hobby; it’s not a pressure group that exists to open the Overton window a little wider; it’s not an association for making friends or hosting stimulating conversations and seminars; it’s not “a 30-year project”. Its purpose is to win and exercise power in the here and now. It is either a plausible vehicle for government or it is nothing.

 

 

"Politics is the art of the possible, the attainable — the art of the next best."

 

- Otto von Bismarck

[visionary]

 

[skinflint2019]

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

 

Quote

Scottish Revolt
But he faces a longer term battle to stop Scotland splitting away from the rest of the country. Last Thursday’s vote gave the Scottish National Party a near clean sweep of seats north of the border, taking districts from Johnson’s Tories on the strength of a promise to oppose Brexit and campaign for another vote on independence.

 

SNP Leader Nicola Sturgeon -- who is first minister of Scotland -- says the election now gives her a mandate for a fresh referendum on whether to become an independent country, after voters chose to stay part of the U.K. in 2014.

 

Scotland “cannot be imprisoned” in the U.K. “against its will,” Sturgeon told BBC TV on Sunday. “If the United Kingdom is to continue, then it can only be by consent.”

 

On Sunday, Johnson’s team gave its most emphatic rejection of Sturgeon’s demand so far, ruling out a second Scottish independence referendum. “We are not going to have an independence referendum in Scotland,” Cabinet Office Minister Michael Gove told Sky News. But the argument is unlikely to go away.

 

Brexit First
Johnson, meanwhile, plans to plow on with taking the U.K. out of the EU by the Jan. 31 deadline. His office said he will introduce a law to deliver Brexit before Christmas. This will be the government’s first priority.

On Thursday, Johnson will announce his program for government in a Queen’s Speech building on the agenda put forward in October. The monarch will make a new speech outlining the plans, which include a bill to enshrine in law an extra 34 billion pounds ($45 billion) per year of pledged spending on health care by 2024. The NHS became a crucial battleground during the election and Johnson has said he is determined to honor his pledges to voters to safeguard state health care.

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by visionary

[visionary]

 

[DCSaints_fan]

Honestly, the agreement they have doesn't look so bad.  If the trade agreement is solid you shouldn't have economic chaos.   It''ll probably end up being a Brexit that's difficult to actually enforce, in that it would be fairly easy to smuggle goods/people across the border, particularly the Irish border, 

[Cooked Crack]

 

[nonniey]

3 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

 

Not really an important development as she has been calling for a new independence referendum many times since the last one was rejected.  It won't be considered by the new government so she will probably have to wait a while (probably won't happen in her lifetime). The Labor party  also isn't too keen on Scotland leaving.

Edited December 19, 2019 by nonniey

[visionary]

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2019 by visionary

[visionary]

 

[The Sisko]

Well done Putin. He’s accomplished something the Soviets could only have dreamed of, i.e. Russian assets in the WH and 10 Downing St. Bravo sir. He pulled it off largely due to the ‘Muricun/British dumbening, but still. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by The Sisko

[Cooked Crack]

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I still can't believe the base stupidity of the populous that's lead to this impending carnage at the end of the month. 

 

Anyway, this perfect, heart-wrenching speech the other day got me. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/DavidLammy/status/1217175333084057603

 

Consider me one of the heartbroken who considers himself European and a citizen of the World then I EVER could British. 

 

Hail. 

[visionary]

 

[visionary]

 

[DCSaints_fan]

Didn’t realize the House of Lords actually did anything

[visionary]

 

[TheGreatBuzz]

Oh yea, this is all supposed to go down at the end of this month, right?  Any new news?  Hard or soft Brexit, etc?

[nonniey]

25 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Oh yea, this is all supposed to go down at the end of this month, right?  Any new news?  Hard or soft Brexit, etc?

It's soft. Parliament approved the deal. 

[No Excuses]

39 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Oh yea, this is all supposed to go down at the end of this month, right?  Any new news?  Hard or soft Brexit, etc?

 

13 minutes ago, nonniey said:

It's soft. Parliament approved the deal. 

 

This isn't right. What the parliament approved is essentially a very rough framework. What the eventual trade and border agreement between the EU and UK looks like is still an open question: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ecb/hard-brexit-at-year-end-may-be-as-damaging-as-no-deal-brexit-ecbs-knot-idUSKBN1Z711Z

 

Soft or hard brexit isn't answered till the end of this year. Or even beyond that quite possibly.

Edited January 27, 2020 by No Excuses

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

 

 

This isn't right. What the parliament approved is essentially a very rough framework. What the eventual trade and border agreement between the EU and UK looks like is still an open question: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-ecb/hard-brexit-at-year-end-may-be-as-damaging-as-no-deal-brexit-ecbs-knot-idUSKBN1Z711Z

 

Soft or hard brexit isn't answered till the end of this year. Or even beyond that quite possibly.

Actually it is right.  The question was it a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit.  A hard Brexit would have meant immediate border controls (including in Ulster/Ireland), excise taxes etc being implemented and none of that is happening at the end of the month. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by nonniey

[No Excuses]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Actually it is right.  The question was it a hard Brexit or a soft Brexit.  A hard Brexit would have meant immediate border controls (including in Ulster/Ireland), excise taxes etc being implemented and none of that is happening at the end of the month. 

Then only thing prevented in three days is a no-deal Brexit. The question of hard or soft Brexit is not settled until the end of this year, but more likely a couple more years. 

Edited January 27, 2020 by No Excuses

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, No Excuses said:

Then only thing prevented in three days is a no-deal Brexit. The question of hard or soft Brexit is not settled until the end of this year, but more likely a couple more years. 

My understanding of the definition of a hard Brexit  was that it was a No Deal Brexit (Pretty sure that is how it was used last fall).  Since we were both responding to Greatbuzz I'd be interested in what he was actually asking.