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How many more games must we win for Gruden to return in 2016?

Riggo-toni

By Riggo-toni
in The Stadium

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Taylor703

Taylor703

Posted
Posted

Just as there are many who undervalue what we have.

Saying that, I think the defense is short a draft (or two) on players it

needs (especially LBs).

The offense, I feel has the pieces, mostly. It is just young and inexperienced (especially along the o-line).

Barring a COMPLETE, Titanic-like sinking the next 6 weeks, I think Gruden will be here next season.

Rambo is a stud?

Stud was a bit of hyperbole but he's certainly become an staple of the bills defense.

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TheCoach22

TheCoach22

Posted
Posted

No point in hiring coaches and firing them two years later. No coach can come in here and win immediately.

This depends on what you think of the current roster. Many think it takes 5 years or more to assemble a rebuild, others see the current roster as at least middle of the pack in the league and wonder what a good HC could get out of it. My opinion is a better coaching effort has the same team 6-4 or 7-3 right now.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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This depends on what you think of the current roster. Many think it takes 5 years or more to assemble a rebuild, others see the current roster as at least middle of the pack in the league and wonder what a good HC could get out of it. My opinion is a better coaching effort has the same team 6-4 or 7-3 right now.

Maybe with Bellicheck were 6-4 and even thats doubtful.

Coaching only does so much. Talent wins.

Talent that isn't well-coached won't get far. The Cowboys would have been to a SB if Parcells had stayed on with those same players that constantly under performed for Wade Phillips. Of course, Jerruh Jones torpedoes that from ever happening lol...

Wade still won 13 games though.

Parcells didnt win in Dallas till they got Romo, TO, Witten etc.

All the all time great coaches also had HOFers up and down their rosters.

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SkinsGuy

SkinsGuy

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Stud was a bit of hyperbole but he's certainly become an staple of the bills defense.

 

"Stud" was a LOT of hyperbole. :)

 

He had a really good game one week. Congrats to him.

 

However, let's not start lamenting his departure like we gave up Ronnie Lott in his prime.

 

See, I can do the hyperbole, too. :)

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abdcskins

abdcskins

Posted
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This depends on what you think of the current roster. Many think it takes 5 years or more to assemble a rebuild, others see the current roster as at least middle of the pack in the league and wonder what a good HC could get out of it. My opinion is a better coaching effort has the same team 6-4 or 7-3 right now.

 

Think of all the holes we've had the past 5 years.  Our secondary is one of the worst in the league.  Linebacking corps is mediocre.  Our running game is pathetic, offensive line is getting better but can't run block for nada.  Cousins is showing promise but needs to be more consistent.  Our wide receivers are just getting older.  I like how we have drafted the past couple of drafts but we still need to add more pieces.

 

Hard for me to judge Gruden.  The play calling has been whatever to me...it's hard for me to judge any coach to be honest.  Ultimately it is up to them to get the right personnel and coach them up properly.  Time will tell.

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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Maybe with Bellicheck were 6-4 and even thats doubtful.

Coaching only does so much. Talent wins.

Wade still won 13 games though.

Parcells didnt win in Dallas till they got romoSUCKS, TO, Witten etc.

All the all time great coaches also had HOFers up and down their rosters.

 

Parcells took the Cowboys to the playoffs with Quincy stinkin' Carter as QB lol...

 

And coaches play a huge roll in HOF players becoming HOF players...the only reason Romo is starting is because Parcells saw his potential and kept him on the squad--he was 3rd string QB for most of his tenure before 2006. Another coach may have cut him, yet another coach may have started him sooner...and Romo may have fizzled out if he had signed with a different team when he went undrafted.

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50yrSKINSfan

50yrSKINSfan

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We have some nice players, but we really don't have any studs. Guys that can change games by themselves. Jackson is close, but he's really a one trick pony deep threat, not an all around monster WR like a Dez Bryant or Julio Jones. Jordan Reed might be but hasn't figured it all out yet. Trent Williams is a great LT but LTs don't really change games. And we have nobody on D that fits this bill, not even close. Again we have some nice, solid, B- to B+ type players, but no As.

 

We also have some really mediocre to bad players. The Safeties are not NFL caliber. Perry Riley is not a starter. Lariebus is god awful at C. Garcon is the definition of mediocre who can't even eclipse 10 YPC.

 

There is a reason this team has averaged like 5 wins per season in the last 5+ years despite going through multiple coaches. We need infusions of gamebreaking playmaking talent.

Agree. We need a impact player on D. That's why I wanted Williams in the draft instead of Scheriff. I thought Williams could be the impact player we needed. He hasen't lived up to his billing yet so I guess I was wrong.

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Califan007 The Constipated

Califan007 The Constipated

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Meh, fluke seasons happen sometimes. They went 6-10 the next year.

Talent even with a subpar coach can win, even win Super Bowls. But a great coach isnt winning jack without great players.

 

Gibbs did, constantly. His rosters weren't stacked with great players, but he got them to play great during their short times here with his schemes, playcalling, leadership and football intelligence. He was also a very innovative offensive mind. And Bethard was a master at finding players who may not be All-Pro but were perfect fits for Gibbs' scheme.

 

Sometimes we fans either forget or underestimate everything it takes to actually field a consistently winning team--or, hell, just to field a team that wins for one season. A thousand obstacles to overcome, dozens of different personalities to coach and lead, unending film to study, months and months of preperation, instilling discipline into your squad, keeping them focused, etc, etc...yet the guy who is responsible for iall of that is under-valued imo.

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TSO

TSO

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Meh, fluke seasons happen sometimes. They went 6-10 the next year.

 

This is what I've noticed as well. A good coach can come in and scheme up a solid season, sometimes even less (like a half season). But then, eventually, the deficiencies of talent being masked get figured out and overcome by the rest of the NFL pretty quickly.

 

You almost always see the fall off happen soon thereafter.

 

Only the teams who have a great QB (talent4 + coaching), a ridiculously deep roster (talent), or one truly elite side of the ball (talent2 + coaching) are able to sustain success year in and year out. This is almost always the case. 

 

Whereas, a great coach can easily falter without having one of the above.  

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Koolblue13

Koolblue13

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I don't disagree with either of you. I think both are important.

 

Great coaches can win with nobodies and talent can win with bad coaches.

 

We are certainly not an 80's 9ers team that is both.

 

We obviously are missing talent. The team has improved.

 

There is no way a new coaching staff comes in next year and gets us over the hump.

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50yrSKINSfan

50yrSKINSfan

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I think he should stay if he splits with the Giants Cowboys and beats the birds 2 times. In other words has a winning percentage in the division.  He should def be here if he wins the division. I don't think he is the second coming of Lombardi but you can't keep firing coaches every 2 years as no one will want to come here. He has had a lot of injuries this year. A lot depends on who is available also. If we crash and burn in the last 6 games and Sean Payton is available, I say get SP. It all depends on the last 6 games. Finishing strong is big if you want to be good next year.

Forgot to add that Gruden is missing 3 #1s and a #2 that we spent on that wonderful deal we made with the Rams. How much better would our D be if we had 3 #1s starting on it. Add the 2nd we lost on our O line and we would have a much better team. That deal set us back 5 plus years at least. Can't blame the current head coach. My opinion is that if you take that deal into consideration, Gruden gets another year.

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Warhead36

Warhead36

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Gibbs did, constantly. His rosters weren't stacked with great players, but he got them to play great during their short times here with his schemes, playcalling, leadership and football intelligence. He was also a very innovative offensive mind. And Bethard was a master at finding players who may not be All-Pro but were perfect fits for Gibbs' scheme.

Sometimes we fans either forget or underestimate everything it takes to actually field a consistently winning team--or, hell, just to field a team that wins for one season. A thousand obstacles to overcome, dozens of different personalities to coach and lead, unending film to study, months and months of preperation, instilling discipline into your squad, keeping them focused, etc, etc...yet the guy who is responsible for iall of that is under-valued imo.

Gibbs had the Posse and the Hogs, the best WR corps and OL of all time. He also had studs like Riggo, D Green, Clark, Manley and Mann, list goes on and on. No doubt Gibbs was a fantastic coach but lets not make it sound like he nothing to work with.

Im not saying coaching doesnt matter, of course it does. But talent matters way more. Its like 75/25 at least, not 50/50.

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TheCoach22

TheCoach22

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Forgot to add that Gruden is missing 3 #1s and a #2 that we spent on that wonderful deal we made with the Rams. How much better would our D be if we had 3 #1s starting on it. Add the 2nd we lost on our O line and we would have a much better team. That deal set us back 5 plus years at least. Can't blame the current head coach. My opinion is that if you take that deal into consideration, Gruden gets another year.

Truth, wouldn't have mattered with Shanny picking the players and Haz running the D. Setting us back implies we were on a path. We really weren't. Gibbs II departed, we got Zorned, then Shanny comes in and goes McNugget and then Sexy RexY/Beck. By 2012 we had to reach. Do you think Tannehill or Wilson do anything here with the team we were rolling out? Do you think Kirk improves at the same rate if he had to be the guy from Day 1? Not a chance.

This team is better, just a lot of opinions as to why and how much... I believe Scot has players convinced this season is an audition to stick around and that he added enough depth to make guys play harder. I still think we are poorly coached in many facets of the game. Jay is an average OC and a below average HC.

I want to add, Chip Kelly has created a mess in Philly as I watch them get blasted yet again, Jason Garrett will never be much better then meh, and Jay is a a lovable lug. That is the greatest reason the Giants are probably going to win this mess. Coughlin is a very competent coach. Still think he took two very average teams and crapped all over the Pats dynasty. Yes, they got every break imaginable in both those SBs, but he coaches them up and gives his team a shot. Hope I am wrong this Sunday, we are due to kick those guys in the teeth.

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