TheGreatBuzz Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 The Pentagon could in the coming months lift the ban on transgender people openly serving in the U.S. military, after Defense Secretary Ash Carter announced Monday a plan to study "readiness implications of welcoming transgender persons to serve openly." Carter made the announcement in a memo outlining a pair of directives to both study the effect of transgender service men and women over the next sixth months, as well as adding the new protocol that any personnel diagnosed with gender dysphoria or who identify as transgender will have their paperwork for dismissal from the military reviewed at the highest personnel levels in DOD. http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/13/politics/pentagon-may-lift-ban-on-transgender-people/ Hopefully this thread regarding trans genders can go a little better than the one regarding children. So what are your thoughts regarding issues discussed in the article and also issues that you can foresee? How do you think we can work around/through those issues? I personally think it is good to see society moving to more equality on all fronts but sometimes feel the military is used as a social experiment and I'm not sure that is the best place for it. I look forward to hearing everyones thoughts in a respectful manner. Also, if you have military experience please let us know as I think experience level is important when considering someone else's opinion. I have been on active duty for the last 13 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 i think the military's main objectives are to fight and keep as many of their soldiers live while accomplishing their missions. I think too much social integration may hinder that mission. Combat is NOT a reasonable place to expect people to behave rationally. i think while it's noble for anyone to want to serve,, it may not be good for their own safety. It's one thing to throw soldiers into combat knowing it is a hazardous situation. it's another to throw people in who may also encounter hazards from their own, the least of which would be a lack of acceptance. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Can she / he / it carry a 60 lb ruck, 80 lb body armor, 8 lb helmet, 12-60 lb weapon and all other gear that may or may not be needed? I weighed 420 lbs in full kit. Can she / he / it do a 12 mile road march in under 2 hours? While carrying the above gear set? Can she / he / it shoot, move and communicate? Can she / he / it do all these things with minimal rest and push back a counter offensive? Will she / he / it follow orders, even if those orders ultimately cost them their life? Then they are soldiers/ sailors / marines / coast guardians?, physical / psychological differences be damned. All that matters is the soldier to the left and right of you. Ruck up troop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 they need to do away with male/female segregation as well. separate quarters just divides. one standard for all....except officers of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 You need a link in the OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskin4ever Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 This would have ruined this guy's plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins3D Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Can she / he / it carry a 60 lb ruck, 80 lb body armor, 8 lb helmet, 12-60 lb weapon and all other gear that may or may not be needed? I weighed 420 lbs in full kit. Can she / he / it do a 12 mile road march in under 2 hours? While carrying the above gear set? Can she / he / it shoot, move and communicate? Can she / he / it do all these things with minimal rest and push back a counter offensive? Will she / he / it follow orders, even if those orders ultimately cost them their life? Then they are soldiers/ sailors / marines / coast guardians?, physical / psychological differences be damned. All that matters is the soldier to the left and right of you. Ruck up troop. If there were really the standards, there would be a very tiny percentage of women in the military. And the male population would be reduced by over 20%, easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 That would be great to say "Yes sir slash ma'am". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 If there were really the standards, there would be a very tiny percentage of women in the military. And the male population would be reduced by over 20%, easy. The big green machine puts men and women on the streets every day due to failing standards. Big green also puts men and women in boots every day to compensate. As a one time NCO, that's all I asked of my men. I wouldn't treat a woman / transperson any different. That would be great to say "Yes sir slash ma'am". LOL That would get confusing. Just throw a "Good Morning Lieutenant". Go with rank. Can't go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Can she / he / it carry a 60 lb ruck, 80 lb body armor, 8 lb helmet, 12-60 lb weapon and all other gear that may or may not be needed? I weighed 420 lbs in full kit. Can she / he / it do a 12 mile road march in under 2 hours? While carrying the above gear set? Can she / he / it shoot, move and communicate? Can she / he / it do all these things with minimal rest and push back a counter offensive? Will she / he / it follow orders, even if those orders ultimately cost them their life? Then they are soldiers/ sailors / marines / coast guardians?, physical / psychological differences be damned. All that matters is the soldier to the left and right of you. Ruck up troop. Standards and performance should not be comprkmised. I think the keyphrase from the first sentence you quoted is "openlly serving". They are exploring whether just being trans is enough reason to be kicked out. When women in combat was being discussed, a concern was raised was whether their male colleagues would be over-protective and compromise effectiveness. Is the concern with trans the opposite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Standards and performance should not be comprkmised. I think the keyphrase from the first sentence you quoted is "openlly serving". They are exploring whether just being trans is enough reason to be kicked out. When women in combat was being discussed, a concern was raised was whether their male colleagues would be over-protective and compromise effectiveness. Is the cocern with trans the opposite? I fell in that trap of thinking. I re-evaluated my position over many beers and discussing this with my fellow ex army buddies. Our consensus is, at the end of the day, can they do the job? Yes? Then they deserve to wear the uniform. I get the hate and discontent. People are going to feel how they want, warranted or not. My personal feelings on any of these topics don't matter. The only question / feeling / thought that matters is can they do the job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted July 14, 2015 Author Share Posted July 14, 2015 A few of the big issues I see: Berthing/showers/etc. I personally think they need to go to all unisex berthing/showers/etc. I've said for a while though I think society as a whole needs to do this. Medical: I don't know enough about what special medical requirements transgender would have but I don't think the military should be covering sex change operations because I consider it a elective procedure. I also don't think the military should be paying for Lasik unless it's needed for your job (that didn't stop me from getting it for free though). We found out a while ago that they will pay for my wife, a civilian, to get a boob job as long as she says it will help her self esteem. I don't think that is right either. Of course if the program is in place, I will still suggest she use it. Uniforms: This is a difficult one. Male and female bodies are generally shaped different. If a "man" becomes a "women" how will a female uniform look on "her"? and vice versa. Do you try to come out with one unisex uniform and require everyone get it tailored to their body shape? That will get expensive. Physical readiness test: I've always said I think there should be one standard for both sexes. If it is determined I need to do 50 pushups to do my job, then 50 should be required no matter my gender. But currently there is a different standard for men and women. So a "man" becoming a "women" may get surgery to change the look of their naughty parts but would still have muscle structure of a man. So what category would they fall into for their PRT? and vice versa. Though I will admit I don't know how the hormones some transgenders take will effect this also. And what consideration do you give them depending on where they are in the hormone therapy timeline? I'm sure there is more issues I'm not thinking of and hopefully people smarter than me can figure them out. I have no problem with a change to policy being made but I want it to be fair and smart across the board, not haphazardly thrown together in order to look PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacase Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Sorry, not for this at all. This is a medical issue that should be disqualifying like other medical issues. Not sure how you can expect to get your hormone therapy in a combat zone or why the military should pony up to treat your existing medical issue if you are already trans when you join. If you can be disqualified for high blood pressure, diabetes, eczema, or a myriad of other medical issues, this is no different. Not even going to get into the mental health problems and the stress of military life that would add the ones they already have. Sorry, but there are too many other people who are otherwise healthy that are able to serve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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