s0crates Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 I think one of the things always missed or discounted in the min wage debate is that it would boost the economy. Poor people spend. Americans are terrible at saving. Combine the two and you have more money circulating through the economy. The reality is everyone wins and I believe this has been demonstrated every time we have raised the min wage. As for the technical school argument... Isn't that a function of many/most of our community colleges? Wouldn't providing access to them lead towards the skilled workforce some complain we don't have? The expense argument I buy. I also think that AA diplomas will be demoted to HA degree status. Those are fair complaints and should be addressed. I like a reverse GI model personally for this kind of thing. You get cc for free, but you owe your community a debt of service for it. You're right about CCs offering good votech training. I would point out that service learning (community service) is a big thing at some of the better CCs, as it is where I work. I think such a program would be relatively inexpensive. It would cost something of course, but I think the cost is worth the benefit of better opportunity and education in America. I really think this is a great idea, my fear is that the Republican congress will never embrace it as a national policy. Our best bet might be to persuade states to follow Tenneessee and Illinois's examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 community college is also good for traditional college uses. your first two years are hardly at a level that puts universities above community colleges - you may find better professors at universities, but it shouldn't matter that much. you get the first two years for significantly cheaper, and depending on where you live it may give you an automatic transfer to the university you want (Virginia works this way, provided you meet the requirements) my wife did that. my wife now has a masters degree and graduated with 0 debt, 0 help/loans from others (minus an allowance from her new employer), solely by working as a waitress to get her AS, then getting a job, then using her new income and a 3k/year allowance through her employer to complete her masters. it can be done... it's not that hard... it takes a little sacrifice and responsibility, but it can be done. but community college has a lot of stigmas attached to it. i hope that goes away by the time my kids are ready to go college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Nice post tshile. There are a lot of CC success stories like that. I have one of my own in fact, which is a big part of why I advocate for these institutions (and love working for them). CCs are cost effective, and more importantly, they are difference makers. Maybe I'm biased by my experience, but I like to think I know the benefits from that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 Community College idea... BS 2.5 'earning it'? If my kids brought home a 2.5 from college I'm sitting them down and handing them the bill. Oh yea, and how is this possible? Lets tax.... Pay your own way Mr. and Mrs. C+ Ridiculous This sounds like an argument to make the requirements more stringent, not to reject the idea entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 edit: i just realized i basically said the same thing i already said, whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted January 21, 2015 Author Share Posted January 21, 2015 edit: never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 edit: i just realized i basically said the same thing i already said, whoops. Hey, if we let that stop us, 1/3 of the threads on the front page would have died, a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 You should suggest her for POTUS. We could do worse....and did twice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 is every female that makes it to some level of noticeable status in the GOP (a president/vp candidate, rebuttal speaker, etc) destined to be labeled as another coming of sarah palin? are these the same people telling the rest of us we're sexist and such? Shhh, it's only sexist when the other side does it. Who are the other prominent GOP women that have been compared to Palin besides Ernst? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Who are the other prominent GOP women that have been compared to Palin besides Ernst? the better question is why would you compare them to each other, totally different paths for each Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duckus Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 the better question is why would you compare them to each other, totally different paths for each Actually, that is not the better question. It is a good dodge though. But good try buddy . Now back to the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Actually, that is not the better question. It is a good dodge though. But good try buddy . Now back to the question. https://www.google.com/search?q="next+sarah+palin" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 now can ya tell me why Palin is even mentioned in relation to Joni? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The speech was exactly what I thought. Lots of fluff and big ideas with little answers to back them up. At least not answers anyone wants to hear. The one big thing I took from this speech is the producer clearly has a favorite candidate for 2016. I think I saw every famous political face or entity once or twice. Except Elizabeth Warren, who I'm pretty sure I got 10 or so reaction shots. Did Gus Ferrotte get that many camera shots during Shuler's second stint as a starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The speech was exactly what I thought. Lots of fluff and big ideas with little answers to back them up. At least not answers anyone wants to hear. The one big thing I took from this speech is the producer clearly has a favorite candidate for 2016. I think I saw every famous political face or entity once or twice. Except Elizabeth Warren, who I'm pretty sure I got 10 or so reaction shots. Did Gus Ferrotte get that many camera shots during Shuler's second stint as a starter? Did Elizabeth Warren head butt a wall, during the speech? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 now can ya tell me why Palin is even mentioned in relation to Joni? they both have amazing hairdressers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 now can ya tell me why Palin is even mentioned in relation to Joni? Perhaps, because both were recently caught telling a lie or at least omitting major truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 If CC is free for everyone, you just devalued CC. It will become the new HS, and soon enough the standards will begin to lower. I hate this idea. I would he way more supportive of federal grants to cover technical/vocational schools the US is sorely lacking in. Plumbing. Electrical. Welding. Tradecraft. Don't devalue CC, something the working class is already using to better themselves. I agree that vocational and trade schools are largely ignored, and they are the easiest way for someone to change their career and earn more. Trust me, I know. But if colleges actually taught people real work skills than does it really matter if an associate's degree becomes devalued. You're learning a valuable skill, that should be all that matters. My wife is a respiratory therapist who earned a bachelor's to work right beside and to make the same amount as a co-worker who got a associates. They need more trained staffing in her field and she'd be happy to have them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 now can ya tell me why Palin is even mentioned in relation to Joni? Let's see, both are/were relative national unknowns, dressed like your Mom spent way to much at the Country Boutique store, given way to much airtime by their national party and it showed, and whose brand of crazy centers around ridiculous ideas about "Agenda 21", no gun control, and other extreme TP ideas. Not to mention that she openly campaigned with Palin ad nauseum. I guess this isn't the time to remind you that nearly every female D candidate is compared to Nancy Pelosi (which the GOP likes to remind us), right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Perhaps, because both were recently caught telling a lie or at least omitting major truths. so Obama will be mentioned with them next? ...or is he a level or three above in the lying/omitting league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Perhaps, because both were recently caught telling a lie or at least omitting major truths. So then Clinton should and will be refereed to as the Next Sarah Palin when she announces her candidacy? Let's see, both are/were relative national unknowns, dressed like your Mom spent way to much at the Country Boutique store, given way to much airtime by their national party and it showed, and whose brand of crazy centers around ridiculous ideas about "Agenda 21", no gun control, and other extreme TP ideas. Not to mention that she openly campaigned with Palin ad nauseum. I guess this isn't the time to remind you that nearly every female D candidate is compared to Nancy Pelosi (which the GOP likes to remind us), right? ah yes, the two wrongs make a right theory. unfortunately, even if you believe in that theory, only one side is spending an inordinate amount of time telling everyone else they're sexist (and that we need laws to punish them for such crimes) making them hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I never claimed that two wrongs make a right. My claim was that the comparison was accurate because the TP appears to only front one type of personality when it comes to women candidates. AND that both parties are guilty of falling back on extreme comparisons (even when they are dead on accurate). Personally, I do not think it's sexist to compare Ernst and Palin when it appears that they politically and personality wise could be clones of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I never claimed that two wrongs make a right. My claim was that the comparison was accurate because the TP appears to only front one type of personality when it comes to women candidates. AND that both parties are guilty of falling back on extreme comparisons (even when they are dead on accurate). Personally, I do not think it's sexist to compare Ernst and Palin when it appears that they politically and personality wise could be clones of each other. your last sentence about "I guess this isn't the time to remind you that nearly every female D candidate is compared to Nancy Pelosi (which the GOP likes to remind us), right?" is typical two wrongs make a right thinking, whether you intended it or not. It's to justify one's actions because the other is guilty of the same. It's a pretty much textbook definition of the idea. all i'm doing is pointing out that the side that spends an inordinate amount of time ridiculing others for stereotyping, among other types of labeling (including sexism, racism, etc), seem to have no problem doing it themselves when it suits their needs. it's interesting to watch. the hypocrisy is not limited to this one type of issue, and it's done on both sides all the time. it's what makes it so easy to make fun of both groups all the time, they can't see their own hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 TWA's question (which was what I was responding too) was why Palin was even mentioned with Ernst. I explained the comparisons AND commented that the GOP does the same thing. I guess I should have just said it's politics AND that it appears to be a valid comparison. I wouldn't want to set off anyone's hypocrisy alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I wouldn't want to set off anyone's hypocrisy alarm. heh, to be fair my problem is less with you (or any other poster on this site) and more with what i see/hear regularly from people i know and in the news/media/etc. just really sick of hearing a certain group of people push their agenda by trying to make me feel like i'm some sort of racist/sexist/etc while doing their own racist/sexist/etc stuff and being completely blind to it. the 'war on women' crowd seem to need a mirror at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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