drowland Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 First off, I didn't solely mention the Shanahan excuse for you to say that. He's always made excuses and that was his biggest one in order to be retained. Secondly, did you listen to the critique by Fletcher? He's the one who made it a point to mention that, not me. Finally, it does matter if the son started it. If the son didn't want a response, he shouldn't have said anything. I feel bad for Haslett's son, I really do. But Fletcher is allowed to defend himself. That's fine. For the record, I think Haslett stinks as a DC and should of been fired years ago. I just don't like how Fletcher came out and said what he said. A lot of it doesn't make sense. Shanahan knew early on that Haslett was clueless? Then why did agree to the contract extension? Your point on Haslett calling out the defense for blown coverages and how it was high school, isn't that on Morris? He calls the coverage in the secondary and coaches that group. Fletcher was vocal about Morris getting the DC gig in the offseason. Maybe that's Fletcher's motivation. He's taking a shot a Haslett because of Haslett's indirect shot at Morris. But again, for a guy who stood up for Fletcher I don't think he deserved it. Let the proof come out in the results. Brian Orakpo might be a candidate..so there you go. Was Haslett responsible for Orakpo tearing his pecs? Ultimately that's what will ruin his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Wu Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 There sure does seem to be an oddly high bar for the evidence to fire Jim Haslett. Most people: you suck at your job, get out. NFL coaches: you've been bad for a while, get out. Jim Haslett: we need receipts and written, notarized documentation for every instance he has ever failed, along with 22-angle HD video, and we will consult among ourselves for six more years while we decide if he should get an official verbal reprimand. He sucks ****ing let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 It follows logically that if he's a bad D Coordinator putting his players in bad situations and then making excuses about it, he'd be (at the very least) hurting their careers, right? Maybe ruined is too strong of a word, but I bet Fletcher can tell you how many players on the D could've had way better success elsewhere. You saw some of the film Fletcher went through where some of the players end up looking like idiots when the playcall itself was ridiculous given the situation. You don't think other staffs see that though? You don't think players leave here and talk about it to the other staffs? Assuming it is true (that Haslett is a bad defensive coordinator that puts players in bad positions so they end up looking bad, which again is completely believable), that other NFL staffs and front offices don't know that (which might explain why he had such a hard time getting back into the NFL) and take that into account when they evaluate ex-Redskins players? Haslett is an idiot and the rest of the NFL, including people that have worked for him and with him in the past and wouldn't given him another job, are too stupid to realize it and evaluate ex-Redskin players accordingly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Wow you really have to listen to the video to appreciate this. Fletch showed no mercy. #59 One of the great ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormy Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Every word Fletch said was accurate, and who would know better than our longtime defensive captain, and Haslett's QB of the defense. It may seem like talking out of school for Fletch to go public with this so abrasively, but he likely feels he needs to given the fact that Haslett has leaked so many damaging and self-serving stories to his numerous sources in the media, and apparently sabotaged so many players and coaches behind closed doors. It's past time that someone places the blame where it belongs for one of the worst aggregate defenses in the NFL 5 years running. And seeing how everyone has had to listen only to Haslett's side of the story via the media, Allen, Gruden etc... it's time we heard one of the best in the business set the record straight. Kudos to Fletch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 You don't think other staffs see that though? You don't think players leave here and talk about it to the other staffs? Assuming it is true (that Haslett is a bad defensive coordinator that puts players in bad positions so they end up looking bad, which again is completely believable), that other NFL staffs and front offices don't know that (which might explain why he had such a hard time getting back into the NFL) and take that into account when they evaluate ex-Redskins players? Haslett is an idiot and the rest of the NFL, including people that have worked for him and with him in the past and wouldn't given him another job, are too stupid to realize it and evaluate ex-Redskin players accordingly? You're right, they do, of course, but it's not that easy. You don't think those same staffs, or FOs, only offer those players cheaper contracts because they have to still "prove it"? You also don't think that some FOs completely overlook players on poor teams? Not every FO is spot on with identifying players who are not doing well due to scheme and valuing them as they should be valued, not as they had played previously in said scheme. Unfortunately, that happens all the time. That's really difficult to do for teams and we always see players on bad teams go somewhere else on nothing more than a cheaper "prove it deal". Fletcher could also be talking about "careers" in terms of team success. Like a good player in his prime languishing on a bad team and not getting any of the accolades winners do. Fletcher, for instance, may have had a better shot at the Hall of Fame with a better D Coordinator here the last how many years. Or just being with a better organization in general. He definitely can speak from experience on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 London Fletcher said it and Andre Carter (a class act and a good dude) agreed via twitter. I trust them both. A class act and good dude would explain the comment and give some supporting evidence. Was it just a case of being a bad manager and the possibility that the other NFL franchises didn't really recognize the fault was Haslett's (as suggested above)? Or was it the actual malicious ruining of people's careers. (which is how I, at least initially, took the comment.) Good dudes wouldn't make unsupported comments like that and then leave them hanging out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I love London Worse then being clueless was the backstabbing stuff he talked about Damn This is 100 Million dollar Haynesworthless territory Damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Washington Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Fletcher is trying to earn a spot in the media. I think the move was a bit tacky, even if it represented his true thoughts. Given that Fletcher has been here so long, he should have spoken up. I thought the players could "easily walk into Snyder's office and share their concerns". I'm sure Fletcher was/is one of Snyder's guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 You're right, they do, of course, but it's not that easy. You don't think those same staffs, or FOs, only offer those players cheaper contracts because they have to still "prove it"? You also don't think that some FOs completely overlook players on poor teams? Not every FO is spot on with identifying players who are not doing well due to scheme and valuing them as they should be valued, not as they had played previously in said scheme. Unfortunately, that happens all the time. That's really difficult to do for teams and we always see players on bad teams go somewhere else on nothing more than a cheaper "prove it deal". Fletcher could also be talking about "careers" in terms of team success. Like a good player in his prime languishing on a bad team and not getting any of the accolades winners do. Fletcher, for instance, may have had a better shot at the Hall of Fame with a better D Coordinator here the last how many years. Or just being with a better organization in general. He definitely can speak from experience on that. We don't have to talk in generalities. We know who the relevant players are. Who left the Redskins where you say that team really got a discount because he looked bad on the Redskins? Who is the Redskins defensive player that went on and out played his contract? Would have Andre Carter gotten a better deal if it wouldn't have been for Haslett after he got cut because he didn't appear to be a good 3-4 OLB as a Redskin even though that appeared to the league's take on him after years as a 49er? Is that the claim? That the single year of him playing 3-4 OLB under Haslett hurt his future earnings even though word on him coming from SF was that he wasn't a good 3-4 OLB and he got stuck trying to play 3-4 OLB again for one year under Haslett? And if it is the 2nd, then Fletcher has an odd sense of having a career ruined. Fletcher got more notoriety and press here as a Redskin then when his time in Buffalo. He made 4 pro bowls in his career. 3 with Haslett as a defensive coordinator. One of them after signing a new contract when he knew that Hasllett was doing to be his defensive coordinator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 We don't have to talk in generalities. We know who the relevant players are. Who left the Redskins that where you say that team really got a discount because he looked bad on the Redskins? Who is the Redskins defensive player that went on and out played his contract? Would have Andre Carter gotten a better deal if it wouldn't have been for Haslett after he got cut because he didn't appear to be a good 3-4 OLB as a Redskin even though that appeared to the league's take on him after years as a 49er? ...... I don't know why you're so focused on this issue, but okay. Maybe Fletcher feels like every player that has been here and is also here now, whether it's Cofield or Jenkins, Wilson or DHall, or the myriad of Safeties we've brought in, would've been immensely more successful than they are and, thus, have their careers screwed up. Or maybe even their development stifled as young NFL players. Is that a possibility to you without having to go through each player, lol? I don't get why this is difficult. I agreed that maybe "ruined" was a bit much and he was pushing it, but if Haslett stinks as a D Coordinator it flows logically that it messes with careers. Not every FO is so in tune with our scheme and its failures that they'll know exactly which players are deserving of what values. Even if they do know, they're not going to negotiate with said players from that viewpoint, if they're smart. They're going to try to get deals on them. On top of that, those players might have been at the age where that was their last chance. Not crazy to think that. Right now, how many teams are going to line up for any of the players on our D? Maybe Kerrigan, for instance, is deserving of a top 5 OLB contract and would play as one in most other schemes... but here he's a top 10 one instead. You do know that teams, when negotiating with player agents, love to focus on previous production. The agent can only say "yeah, but" so much before it means nothing. Don't know why this is so outrageous to think for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't know why you're so focused on this issue, but okay. Maybe Fletcher feels like every player that has been here and is also here now, whether it's Cofield or Jenkins, Wilson or DHall, or the myriad of Safeties we've brought in, would've been immensely more successful than they are and, thus, have their careers screwed up. Or maybe even their development stifled as young NFL players. Is that a possibility to you without having to go through each player, lol? I don't get why this is difficult. I agreed that maybe "ruined" was a bit much and he was pushing it, but if Haslett stinks as a D Coordinator it flows logically that it messes with careers. Not every FO is so in tune with our scheme and its failures that they'll know exactly which players are deserving of what values. Even if they do know, they're not going to negotiate with said players from that viewpoint, if they're smart. They're going to try to get deals on them. On top of that, those players might have been at the age where that was their last chance. Not crazy to think that. Right now, how many teams are going to line up for any of the players on our D? Maybe Kerrigan, for instance, is deserving of a top 5 OLB contract and would play as one in most other schemes... but here he's a top 10 one instead. You do know that teams, when negotiating with player agents, love to focus on previous production. The agent can only say "yeah, but" so much before it means nothing. Don't know why this is so outrageous to think for you. Because to me claiming somebody has ruined careers is a major claim and should be made in away that is not vague and is supported. I don't have a history of defending Haslett, but if you are going to make that sort of claim, you should support it and explain it. There have been a lot of failed coaches in the NFL. I've never heard anybody talk about them ruining people's careers before. That phrase suggests more to me. **EDIT** And not just the NFL, but all of sports, and all of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Russel is a good source on this, clearly. It's not like he's been trolling us all year about Haz and putting the blame on everything and anything other than Haz no matter what. Russel would be totally objective right now. As for making it personal, that's exactly what Haslett did when he made every excuse in the book as to why he's failed this team, topping it off with the "Mike Shanahan handcuffed me" grand finale that was nothing short of disgusting. Fletcher didn't get into a twitter war with his son, his son called Fletcher out and he responded with the truth. Just stop. Fletcher was one of the only bright spots this organization has had since he's come here, period. We shouldn't hate him because the team chose to re-sign him when he was clearly declining due to age, nor should we give Haslett credit for that as if Fletcher should be thankful to him. Objective? Russell is a huge Haz supporter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I don't think Haslett is "clueless", but I don't agree with his defensive philosophy and would like to see a change. He takes a ton of risks and when the risks don't work, it looks like it's the players who were at fault, when it was the coaches who put them in really difficult positions. And when you do something different every week, that's just going to amplify the number of missed assignments. His strategy is the type of strategy that a college defense would need to employ against an NFL offense just to have a chance. Is our talent that bad that we need to throw caution to the wind week-in and week-out? Would we just get picked apart by being more conservative? It's time to find out. I'm sick of living by the zero blitz and dying by the zero blitz. By the way, London isn't a big enough name that he can get away with such poor verbal skills in the media. He should work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 People claiming Fletcher never spoke up dont remember some of the talk coming from the team back in 2012 before haslett gave Fletcher the ability to change plays. This is NOT out of left field for those of us who do remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins55 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Wooooow this is a bombshell!!! The reason our defense has sucked over the years is because the players didn't believe in what the coordinator was calling. UNBELIEVABLE! How can anyone look at our defense the last five years and get mad at what London said?? It points to the fact that some fans are absolutely delusional! The players in this locker room are London's friends and colleagues, and to see them blamed week in and week out has got to wear on you. PLUS to see Andre Carter cosign on what Fletcher said is evidence enough for me that fLETCH DID THE RIGHT THING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 There's something about what Fletcher is saying that bugs me, yes Haslett sucks and we know that but why didn't Fletcher help out the organization and say something to management. He played for Haz for years and now he finally grew a pair and exposes him to be the piece of **** he is. I think he's a coward. Coward? You don't know the meaning of the word, coward. He said it on national TV... did not mince words. And you are calling him a coward? The losing is becoming real personal to a lot of former Skins... not just the fans. The ex-players are not happy either. Next time, grab a dictionary and learn the real meaning of the word... coward! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Objective? Russell is a huge Haz supporter? Check your sarcasm meter and get back to me. People claiming Fletcher never spoke up dont remember some of the talk coming from the team back in 2012 before haslett gave Fletcher the ability to change plays. This is NOT out of left field for those of us who do remember. Yeah and I also remember one of the things during that 2012 offseason where the team wanted to re-sign him, there were rumors about him not wanting to come back unless Haz was gone. I forgot who was reporting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 I can't stand Haslett either, but what London did was very classless. London dragged ass all of 2013 and Haz never crapped on him in press conferences. Haslett is the worst DC in the NFL, hands down. But let the statistics and play on the field be the nail in his coffin. Yeah, he should have done it anonymously, right? Do you know what is worse than vitriol and the so-called classless rants, apathy... Yeah... at some point we fans will not care as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Check your sarcasm meter and get back to me. Yeah and I also remember one of the things during that 2012 offseason where the team wanted to re-sign him, there were rumors about him not wanting to come back unless Haz was gone. I forgot who was reporting that. Dang, your right. Meter must be broken. Need to read a little slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Can anybody find anything about Fletcher being given the authority to change plays in 2012. I don't remember it being a big deal and can't find any reporting on it? Or any Fletcher Haslett rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 A class act and good dude would explain the comment and give some supporting evidence. Was it just a case of being a bad manager and the possibility that the other NFL franchises didn't really recognize the fault was Haslett's (as suggested above)? Or was it the actual malicious ruining of people's careers. (which is how I, at least initially, took the comment.) Good dudes wouldn't make unsupported comments like that and then leave them hanging out there. This is for you... eloquently put by Supreme Wu... There sure does seem to be an oddly high bar for the evidence to fire Jim Haslett. Most people: you suck at your job, get out. NFL coaches: you've been bad for a while, get out. Jim Haslett: we need receipts and written, notarized documentation for every instance he has ever failed, along with 22-angle HD video, and we will consult among ourselves for six more years while we decide if he should get an official verbal reprimand. He sucks ****ing let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Yeah, he should have done it anonymously, right? Do you know what is worse than vitriol and the so-called classless rants, apathy... Yeah... at some point we fans will not care as well. Fletch can criticize Haslett without the personal attacks ("incompetent") and accusations ("Backstabbing"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 This is for you... eloquently put by Supreme Wu... Where have I said Haslett should keep his job. Ever. In any thread. **EDIT** Where I ever said that they should even consider NOT firing Haslett in any thread ever? I'm fine if they fire Haslett tomorrow morning. That's not the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Fletch can criticize Haslett without the personal attacks ("incompetent") and accusations ("Backstabbing"). It is very personal to Fletcher... Unlike most of us on this forum, he lived it. When someone goes "Full Fletcher" on you like that, he probably have confronted you about it multiple times. Personally, I am glad to see that the losing is getting to those guys who actually bled burgundy and gold. Where have I said Haslett should keep his job. Ever. In any thread. **EDIT** Where I ever said that they should even consider NOT firing Haslett in any thread ever? I'm fine if they fire Haslett tomorrow morning. That's not the point. Never said you asked for him to keep his job... You are asking someone who actually strapped up and played under him and was the defensive CAPTAIN to prove his allegation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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