2014 Official All 22 Coaches Film Thread - Nothing But All 22 Questions and Observations

[PortisBetts]

and the hits keep on coming

 

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24872997/look-ref-covers-rams-receivers-better-than-redskins-secondary

 

Now if that isn't scheme/coaching, idk what is.

[Rufus T Firefly]

Now if that isn't scheme/coaching, idk what is.

I think the idea was that Hill would be unable to decide which wide open receiver to throw to and would end up accidentally throwing it away.

[PortisBetts]

I think the idea was that Hill would be unable to decide which wide open receiver to throw to and would end up accidentally throwing it away.

 

"No way they are this open. I must be missing something"

 

Haslett Thinking- "If we triple cover one guy, maybe he wont notice the other 2 wide open guys and give up"

[SkinsFTW]

"No way they are this open. I must be missing something"

 

Haslett Thinking- "If we triple cover one guy, maybe he wont notice the other 2 wide open guys and give up"

 

Maybe Hasletts problem solving ability is being held back by our roster of 1 read QB's.

[PortisBetts]

Not sure if i should post this in the Griffin thread or here, but here are GIF's of every throw Griffin made in the Giants game. Really good stuff.

 

http://nflbreakdowns.com/colt-mccoy-to-ir-rg3-pass-vs-giants/

[gortiz]

Not sure if i should post this in the Griffin thread or here, but here are GIF's of every throw Griffin made in the Giants game. Really good stuff.

 

http://nflbreakdowns.com/colt-mccoy-to-ir-rg3-pass-vs-giants/

 

holy ****, this is amazing.  Thanks for this man. 

 

not good

 

RG3 has a couple of options. First, WR12 Roberts runs a stab route and sits underneath the linebacker zones. This is where the ball should have gone immediately. It was 3rd and 4 from his quick pass earlier and all he needed was 4 yards to pick up the first, so a quick strike to Roberts would have kept the drive alive. Second choice was FB36 Young running to the flat. As he was escaping into the pocket, he should have looked over and saw that his checkdown receiver is still open. The third option is Garcon running an angled go route towards the sideline to get into the space between the underneath zone coverage of the CB and the safety in Cover 2. This could be his choice only if he had time (so not to be used for this situation).

 

 

[Skins Wingman]

Helu has never been a good blocker, you may be thinking of Royster, who was the most complete RB we had.

 

I know some of you will be shocked by this, but some of the all 22 on Lauvao is disgusting. 

 

Mark Bullock @MarkBullockNFL  ·  12h 12 hours ago

LG Shawn Lauvao in pass protection. Number 77. Gripped, pulled, beaten.

 

 

 

dont want to quote all the pics but wtf are the 3 stooges on the right doing? looks like lich tried to help double and completely knocked a defender free.  also, look at rg3's head in the pics, looks like hes making 3 different reads to me.  not much he can do when 5 guys cant block 4

[HAILSKINSNYC]

I'm an RG3 apologist and a Gruden hater....as I see it, RG3 is not a fully developed pocket QB...we all know this.....the pass protection is average at best...I would say it's below average......the head coach exposes our weaknesses instead of maximizing our strengths.

 

When I watch this offense; what are they trying to accomplish?    in the passing game, I don't see play designs that often confuse defenses or are designed to get receivers open.

[PortisBetts]

holy ****, this is amazing.  Thanks for this man. 

 

 

No problem! I found a link on reddit the past couple of weeks that has been breaking down all the passing plays. Not sure why it took me so long to bring them over here, but ill make sure to post them here on out

I'm an RG3 apologist and a Gruden hater....as I see it, RG3 is not a fully developed pocket QB...we all know this.....the pass protection is average at best...I would say it's below average......the head coach exposes our weaknesses instead of maximizing our strengths.

 

When I watch this offense; what are they trying to accomplish?    in the passing game, I don't see play designs that often confuse defenses or are designed to get receivers open.

 

How do you see that? Nearly all of the pass plays that were called are 3 step drops and designed to get the ball out quickly to minimize the amount of time the line needs to protect. Not sure which film you are looking at. Griffin is barely able to do those plays as of right now. You cant make it more complicated if he cannot do the basic plays yet. He will get there hopefully with work in the offseason as this game there was more good than bad in terms of decision making, but this was also against a terrible defense.

 

Edit: I come off harsh here. I think Griffin did a good job against the Giants aside from a few plays. He was more decisive, which will come with more repetitions, and hopefully a better o-line in 2015 will allow for more play calling that attacks down field and gives Griffin time to get through his reads. His happy feet seemed to calm down a little and he sat in the pocket a little bit more, which was encouraging

[gortiz]

I'm an RG3 apologist and a Gruden hater....as I see it, RG3 is not a fully developed pocket QB...we all know this.....the pass protection is average at best...I would say it's below average......the head coach exposes our weaknesses instead of maximizing our strengths.

 

When I watch this offense; what are they trying to accomplish?    in the passing game, I don't see play designs that often confuse defenses or are designed to get receivers open.

 

watch the all-22, you will have a different opinion ... 

 

 

 

RG3 is shotgun has Garcon and Roberts on the left and Jackson alone on the right. Both Garcon and Roberts are running deep in-routes while Jackson is running a curl route to the outside. RG3 snaps the ball and takes 3-steps back and looks at Garcon and Roberts while TE86 Reed runs to the left flat.

 

RG3 NEEDS to get rid of the ball. He’s staring down his two deeper receivers looking for a big play but he could have thrown it to Reed on the left side to avoided getting pressured.

 

As soon as RG3 takes off he is pursued by DE98 Moore who takes him down by the ankles. Luckily, RG3 does the smart thing and throws the ball away before the sack, but it should never have come to this. Quicker decision-making is key and RG3 still is hesitant with the ball.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

 

watch the all-22, you will have a different opinion ... 

 

 

 

RG3 is shotgun has Garcon and Roberts on the left and Jackson alone on the right. Both Garcon and Roberts are running deep in-routes while Jackson is running a curl route to the outside. RG3 snaps the ball and takes 3-steps back and looks at Garcon and Roberts while TE86 Reed runs to the left flat.

 

RG3 NEEDS to get rid of the ball. He’s staring down his two deeper receivers looking for a big play but he could have thrown it to Reed on the left side to avoided getting pressured.

 

As soon as RG3 takes off he is pursued by DE98 Moore who takes him down by the ankles. Luckily, RG3 does the smart thing and throws the ball away before the sack, but it should never have come to this. Quicker decision-making is key and RG3 still is hesitant with the ball.

 

You think a that's a good play design?    Roberts & Garcon both running in routes within a few yards of each other?   throwing the ball to Reed on 3rd and 10 and punting?   ok, whatever.     And as usual, the pocket collapses within 3 seconds.

You want to call me a conspiracy theorist?  fine....but I've believed for a long time that Gruden is sabotaging RG3....he doesn't want him to have success unless it's the Andy Dalton way.   

[Skins Wingman]

You think a that's a good play design?    Roberts & Garcon both running in routes within a few yards of each other?   throwing the ball to Reed on 3rd and 10 and punting?   ok, whatever.     And as usual, the pocket collapses within 3 seconds.

You want to call me a conspiracy theorist?  fine....but I've believed for a long time that Gruden is sabotaging RG3....he doesn't want him to have success unless it's the Andy Dalton way.   

i think it was a good design, but i am not disagreeing with you 100%.  i think roberts and garcon are clearing out for reed in the flat.  it looks like if they cut in a little sooner, pulling their guys inside more, reed may have had a lane going down the sideline.  the other option is jackson on the right sideline.  thats a timing play and one we usually dont see rg3 make.  this is what he needs to improve.  throwing to a receiver before/as he is cutting.  trent does get bullrushed tho and rg3 was probably looking in the corner of his eye.  thats usually what happens when his lineman are constantly getting beat.

[gortiz]

You think a that's a good play design?    Roberts & Garcon both running in routes within a few yards of each other?   throwing the ball to Reed on 3rd and 10 and punting?   ok, whatever.     And as usual, the pocket collapses within 3 seconds.

You want to call me a conspiracy theorist?  fine....but I've believed for a long time that Gruden is sabotaging RG3....he doesn't want him to have success unless it's the Andy Dalton way.   

 

man, I'm not going to rail on you but I am going to tell you the error of your ways ... you have to see the film. Both WR uncover themselves and they are open and Robert has a chance to hit them, but if he hit Reed after coming off the WR he has a good chance of getting the first. 

 

You really can't pass judgement with out rewatching the all-22. 

 

Plus this is just one play, you can't pass judgement on play design and calling on one play. I'm not ... i'm watching almost all of them. 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

 

RG3 is shotgun has Garcon and Roberts on the left and Jackson alone on the right. Both Garcon and Roberts are running deep in-routes while Jackson is running a curl route to the outside. RG3 snaps the ball and takes 3-steps back and looks at Garcon and Roberts while TE86 Reed runs to the left flat.

 

RG3 NEEDS to get rid of the ball. He’s staring down his two deeper receivers looking for a big play but he could have thrown it to Reed on the left side to avoided getting pressured.

 

As soon as RG3 takes off he is pursued by DE98 Moore who takes him down by the ankles. Luckily, RG3 does the smart thing and throws the ball away before the sack, but it should never have come to this. Quicker decision-making is key and RG3 still is hesitant with the ball.

 

This play i dont have a major issue with the sack. Hes trying to make a play downfield. We would have gone crazy if he threw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 10. 

[HAILSKINSNYC]

i think it was a good design, but i am not disagreeing with you 100%.  i think roberts and garcon are clearing out for reed in the flat.  it looks like if they cut in a little sooner, pulling their guys inside more, reed may have had a lane going down the sideline.  the other option is jackson on the right sideline.  thats a timing play and one we usually dont see rg3 make.  this is what he needs to improve.  throwing to a receiver before/as he is cutting.  trent does get bullrushed tho and rg3 was probably looking in the corner of his eye.  thats usually what happens when his lineman are constantly getting beat.

 

You're telling me the play design is to run two receivers on deep in routes to clear out Reed in the flat on 3rd and 10?    I'm just not buying that.

 

I've never seen two receivers running the same exact route within 2-3 yards of each other......you would be better off having an extra blocker.  

man, I'm not going to rail on you but I am going to tell you the error of your ways ... you have to see the film. Both WR uncover themselves and they are open and Robert has a chance to hit them, but if he hit Reed after coming off the WR he has a good chance of getting the first. 

 

You really can't pass judgement with out rewatching the all-22. 

 

Plus this is just one play, you can't pass judgement on play design and calling on one play. I'm not ... i'm watching almost all of them. 

 

I watched the all-22.     Both receivers uncover themselves?   Roberts does once RG3 starts scrambling...I can buy the argument that he should have thrown to Roberts on the run.     But in general, I have a hard time blaming RG3 for sometimes feeling the pressure, even when it's not there....it seems at least one lineman gets beat on every play, so if you're Robert; you're anticipating the rush.

[Peregrine]

Man, great breakdown for the Giants game.  I took a look at all 18 pass plays they had listed, then the other 9 they didnt.  There were 9 incompletions in the game and 3 sacks.  So of the 27 pass attempts and 3 sacks I saw 6 bad plays by RG3, clearly attributal to his reads or throws.  The good news is he did have a bunch of good reads.  The other good news, MOST of his bad reads seem very fixable, as they were short quick routes over the middle.  

 

1. He missed a quick open read over the middle before the pocket collapsed on play 2 in that breakdown

2. He threw a bad pass to Jackson on the screen on play 9

3. He made a bad read, receivers were late developing on play 10 but did come open, and before the pressure got to him.  Now, his internal clock may have just gone off and told him hey you have been here to long, do something.  I think if we had a better offensive line, with less frequent hits on the QB he would have kept looking downfield on this one.

4. Roberts comes open after the pump fake, wide open.  He should use the pump fake more, teams are so used to him throwing his first attempt.  Bad read on this one though it was well covered mostly.  Play 14

5. He had Reed open right over the middle on a quick play, bad read, doesnt throw it.  Tighter window than some think, but a good NFL QB can fit it into that window.  Runs for TD called back, play 16

6. He had Reed open quickly again on 4th and 2 over the middle.  TW got shoved right back into him, very poor blocking, but it was there just before he got shoved back, play 21

 

All in all, not too bad.  It seems about 4 of those plays could have been fixed by just making the quick throw to Reed across the middle, and one was just a misthrown screen.  Moral of the story, when Reed is in the middle of the field, throw to him.

[darrelgreenie]

holy ****, this is amazing.  Thanks for this man. 

 

not good

 

 

 

Awesome link (although the vids won't play for me, but i just follow along on all-22 anyway)

I applaud the website for their efforts they/he does a full scale version of what we attempt in this thread

 

On THIS play above...pictured above this is my read..

 

I would grade Griffin down I guess, but reluctantly.

Griffin 1st read is Jordan Reed.

AND Jordan Reed would be open in proper timing IF he didn't stem/stutter before he breaks into his route. And I don't know why but Reed ALWAYS seems to stem/stutter step before he makes his break/cut.

**If you want a good read on this play you have to watch the sideline angle and watch Reed's route**

I don't grade him down here because right when Griffin is ready to throw the protection on the right side breaks down.

HERE is where I grade him down. He steps up in the pocket.Good right?  The pocket is small, i mean like a phone booth small. BUT Griffin lowers the ball and isn't in position to throw to Roberts who is open. It might require a jump pass or something though. The IDEAL play is for Griffin to turn down Reed and switch to Roberts and step-up and throw OR stay with Reed and stand in the pocket and throw to Reed OR step up and throw to Reed or  all those throws would come from a narrow phone booth sized pocket which would cause an awkward arm angle/inability to step into the throw 

 

I can post pictures later if people want to discuss this play further

 

Here is where I disagree with the websites take:

1. Griffin is reading Jordan first NOT Roberts. Roberts was the second read.

2. The author says the ball "should" go to Roberts and it could IF Roberts was the 1st read but Reed was

3. The author also says that DY was the 2nd read after Roberts. I don't think there is any chance DY is the second read on this play. No play is structured to go from read 1 near the sideline to read 2 on the opposite sideline. Never happen.

[PortisBetts]

Awesome link (although the vids won't play for me, but i just follow along on all-22 anyway)

 

On THIS play above...

I would grade Griffin down I guess, but reluctantly.

Griffin 1st read is Jordan Reed.

AND Jordan Reed would be open in proper timing IF he didn't stem/stutter before he breaks into his route. And I don't know why but Reed ALWAYS seems to stem/stutter step before he makes his break/cut.

**If you want a good read on this play you have to watch the sideline angle and watch Reed's route**

I don't grade him down here because right when Griffin is ready to throw the protection on the right side breaks down.

HERE is where I grade him down. He steps up in the pocket.Good right?  The pocket is small, i mean like a phone booth small. BUT Griffin lowers the ball and isn't in position to throw to Roberts who is open. It might require a jump pass or something though. The IDEAL play is for Griffin to step up and throw to Roberts simultaneously 

 

I can post pictures later if people are interested in discussing this play further

 

I wouldn't say reluctantly. It is definitely a down play. He needs to get that ball to Roberts. Based on the coverage, he should be able to pick that up rather quickly. This isn't any type of fancy defense. It is a straight cover 2 shell with no deep route to pull the safety off of the underneath route. There is no where to go deep. The safety flows to reed, the underneath corner covers the out, that should be  a quick read with 2 options. Either right to Roberts, or swing it out to Young who is going to the flat. One of the few plays i gave him a full down vote.

 

For the most part, he played within the offense. Everyone wonders why he kept going short, why he isnt taking any chances downfield. Well, 2 reasons. The plays simply were not called to allow for a deep pass is number 1. Number 2, Grudent doesn't trust the offensive line. I honestly think that is more blatantly obvious with the playcalling (not even only this game, but the past 5 or 6 weeks, there has been no downfield passing threat) and less of a knock on the quarterbacks. There is a reason that none of them have looked particularly good and it is because the offensive line simply does not allow enough time for the quarterback to let a play develop.

 

Honestly, I thought his play, especially after watching those gifs, was pretty good, considering what he had to work with.

 

Edit- It is also a 3rd down and 4 play. If he throws that ball to Roberts at exactly when that screenshot shows, its an easy first down and the drive continues. Instead, it stalled there.

[gortiz]

You're telling me the play design is to run two receivers on deep in routes to clear out Reed in the flat on 3rd and 10?    I'm just not buying that.

 

I've never seen two receivers running the same exact route within 2-3 yards of each other......you would be better off having an extra blocker.  

 

I watched the all-22.     Both receivers uncover themselves?   Roberts does once RG3 starts scrambling...I can buy the argument that he should have thrown to Roberts on the run.     But in general, I have a hard time blaming RG3 for sometimes feeling the pressure, even when it's not there....it seems at least one lineman gets beat on every play, so if you're Robert; you're anticipating the rush.

 

I agree, and we are in the same camp. I think that in this perfect storm of bad offense the O-line and play calling are to blame as well.  However, a lot of this would be alleviated with a more decisive Robert that: 

 

Let routes unfold more before bailing on them (easier said than done with a leaky line) 

Threw receivers open more as opposed to hoping they get 3-4 yards separation 

Kept  his eyes down field and did not tuck the ball away and run so quickly

Awesome link (although the vids won't play for me, but i just follow along on all-22 anyway)

I applaud the website for their efforts they/he does a full scale version of what we attempt in this thread

 

On THIS play above...pictured above this is my read..

 

I would grade Griffin down I guess, but reluctantly.

Griffin 1st read is Jordan Reed.

AND Jordan Reed would be open in proper timing IF he didn't stem/stutter before he breaks into his route. And I don't know why but Reed ALWAYS seems to stem/stutter step before he makes his break/cut.

**If you want a good read on this play you have to watch the sideline angle and watch Reed's route**

I don't grade him down here because right when Griffin is ready to throw the protection on the right side breaks down.

HERE is where I grade him down. He steps up in the pocket.Good right?  The pocket is small, i mean like a phone booth small. BUT Griffin lowers the ball and isn't in position to throw to Roberts who is open. It might require a jump pass or something though. The IDEAL play is for Griffin to step up and throw to Roberts simultaneously 

 

I can post pictures later if people want to discuss this play further

 

Here is where I disagree with the websites take:

1. Griffin is reading Jordan first NOT Roberts. Roberts was the second read.

2. The author says the ball "should" go to Roberts and it could IF Roberts was the 1st read but Reed was

3. The author also says that DY was the 2nd read after Roberts. I don't think there is any chance DY is the second read on this play. No play is structured to go from read 1 near the sideline to read 2 on the opposite sideline. Never happen.

 

yo got to figure that video thing out DG ... totally thought of you when I saw this.  The vids have a cool slo mo and reverse feature. Try Chrome? 

 

I agree on Robert lowering the ball, he seems to do that so quickly now, completely takes his eyes from down field when he does that. 

[PortisBetts]

I have also noticed a problem recently where, when he does scramble, he seems to be going more towards the side of the field where there is only a single receiver, which is totally limiting his options. Not sure if anyone else has noticed that.

This play i dont have a major issue with the sack. Hes trying to make a play downfield. We would have gone crazy if he threw a 4 yard pass on 3rd and 10. 

 

We go crazy about sacks. Id rather him throw the obvious 4 yard pass and give the receiver a chance to make a play and get the first. It seems like that is a lot of what this offense is based around. YAC. Get the ball in the playmakers hands quickly and allow them to try and make a play. There is no chance at getting a first if he doesn't unload the ball.

[darrelgreenie]

 

This picture you can tell his vision is to the far rightist of the field either on Garcon or Reed.

He could even be reading Hi to Low WHICH was often the progression last year under Kyle.

But he is clearly NOT looking at Roberts here.

 

This frame happens about an instant before Compton gets beat which also is an instant before Reed gets open

[darrelgreenie]

                                                                                                                                   

Here you can see the Reed is finally open.

He's wasn't running on out route. He's running a 'stop' route or hitch/curl whatever you want to call it

You can also see the protection on the right is already broken down and he's getting pressured.

At this point he lowers the ball. Considering the circumstances is a safer then keeping the ball in a throwing carriage BUT

its also the reason he's can't quickly throw because he would have to reset his arm.

[darrelgreenie]

                                                                                                                                          

 

Here is different angle almost to the exact nano-second from the previous image

You can see clearly how small the pocket actually was and why throwing to Reed or Roberts or anyone would be difficult

he would have to quickly reset and throw or do a jump pass or something either way the timing is off 

[darrelgreenie]

I was editing my post, so I didn't see this till after...

...He needs to get that ball to Roberts.

If you completely ignore everything else that's happening in the play then I guess that could be your only take away from this play.
 

....it is a straight cover 2 shell with no deep route to pull the safety off of the underneath route. There is no where to go deep. The safety flows to reed, the underneath corner covers the out, that should be  a quick read with 2 options. Either right to Roberts, or swing it out to Young who is going to the flat. 

 Actually, there is a deep route its Garcon so he does actually have an option to throw it into the natural hole in a Cover-2. AND Griffin could be reading this play Hi-Garcon to Low-Reed. We can't know. The Safety doesn't cover to Reed the Safety covers deep half over Garcon. The CB deepens and widens leaving Reed space.

Reed is not running an out and Reed does actually get open. BUT Reed doesn't get open BEFORE the pressure gets to Griffin. And the reason if you watch the sideline view play close attention to the route Reed does then pause it once he finished stemming/stutter stepping. If Reed just got into his route with a speed cut not stem no stutter he would have been open when Griffin needed him.

We don't know what the read 'should' but I we can be sure that its not a 2 option progression. You don't have a 2-option progression with 5 eligibles. 

And the read progression is more likely Garcon-Reed-Roberts if he works the rightist (which he did) OR its DeSean to DY if he works the leftside.

There is no way the read progression went Roberts to DY.
 

Edit- It is also a 3rd down and 4 play. If he throws that ball to Roberts at exactly when that screenshot shows, its an easy first down and the drive continues. Instead, it stalled there.

 

You can look at most anyplace and freeze frame a image and say if the QB does X right at this nano-second then Y would happen. Imho its one of the easy traps to fall into when breaking down film.

But I do agree that if Griffin throws to Roberts in the proper timing then the drive continues. The reasons why Griffin didn't throw it to Roberts in that exact screenshot are where we disagree.

 

But good discussion anyhow. Gotta run.

[PortisBetts]

I was editing my post, so I didn't see this till after...

If you completely ignore everything else that's happening in the play then I guess that could be your only take away from this play.

 

It should have been a quick read to get to Roberts. That ball should have been thrown before he stopped in the middle of the field and would have if he had diagnosed the coverage correctly, which he didnt because he stayed on Garcon/Reed to long. That throw to Reed is very tight with that cornerback sitting in the flat. He never bailed on the coverage and would have been able to get in the way of the throw. I dont have the ability to do screenshots, but that ball could have been out to Roberts quickly and a first down would have been had, Thats been his issue. He has not been decisive and has not been able to decipher defenses fast enough. 

 

 

Ball absolutely should have been out before he had to scramble. Even with the scramble, as you mention earlier, if he had the ball held higher, he would have been able to throw it.