Thoughts on Cousins and the next few weeks

[Vilandil Tasardur]

You had me fooled. I think Griffin is gone next year because the optic from firing Gruden would be tough to get over.

Its fine if you aren't sure Griffin is capable/willing to run the system he was successful with but to be clear that a YOU issue not a Griffin issue. You are guessing about how Griffin feels and ignoring the fact that when those plays are called he runs them. And in the process you are missing the fact the Jay Gruden doesn't call a lot of read-option. And Gruden has stated that he's not a fan of the read-option. If anyone is to 'blame' (and I'm not looking to blame anyone) but since you are trying to assign blame for the amount of read-option the blame most accurately lies with Jay Gruden not Griffin.

 

"Not that Colin can’t do that, but I wasn’t too in-tune with the read-option stuff. But, obviously, that’s a great weapon to have.” -Jay Gruden

2011 explaining why he chose Dalton over Kaep

Its a moot point anyway because the Gruden-Griffin marriage is headed for a quick divorce.

My apologies DG. I've been really sick the past couple of days and somehow JUST saw that you replied to me here.

 

I agree with you to some extent, it is partly a problem I have with Grifin, and not a problem I think Griffin has. But let me explain that.

 

I don't like the read option at all. For anyone. I think it's unsustainable. Beyond that, I don't think it really works anymore. I think defenses have adjusted to it in such as way that it might work once or twice in a vacuum but doesn't successfully move the ball down field for you. Kaepernick did it several times against Seattle (who we eviscerated with it in 2012). He get first downs but generally speaking it wasn't something they could have just run over and over and taken the game over with (like we did). '

 

However, I WOULD like to see Robert get more plays that get him on the move, Roll outs, bootlegs, etc. The only problem is, since the ankle dislocation, I think he's been unreliable throwing on the move. I think he's been absolutely atrocious going left, and decent going right but perhaps not enough to make it worth doing over anything else. I don't claim to be an expert, but I can see how taking a QB whose footwork is iffy and asking him to do things on the move may be harder, not helpful. 

 

 

But more than anything, I think the disconnect between the fans and Gruden falls on the lack of production on 1st and 2nd. We're all sitting here behind our computer screens saying we want:

~ More Alfred Morris!

~ More Rolls outs!

~ More bootlegs!

~ More slants and quick passes!

~ More screens!

 

 

So basically, we all want to double our offense plays! Well yeah, don't we? But 1st and 2nd down are almost always some form of short pass (check) and Morris run (check two), but because neither of them get us into third and short, 3rd and long is an obvious drop back (or give up screen for field position). I think we can all agree we'd like to see more creativity. But that's hard to do when (all of the QBs) go entire halves without first downs.

[abdcskins]

Are we still going to trade Cousins for a second round pick?

Seriously though, we should've traded Cousins or RG3 last offseason or the year before when both had some semblance of value. Many scoffed at that idea. Now they are flotsam and jetsam.

[skins/psu1981]

Are we still going to trade Cousins for a second round pick?

Seriously though, we should've traded Cousins or RG3 last offseason or the year before when both had some semblance of value. Many scoffed at that idea. Now they are flotsam and jetsam.

Why? So we would've been only rolling with Griffin (who got hurt in game 2) and Colt Mccoy?

[abdcskins]

Why? So we would've been only rolling with Griffin (who got hurt in game 2) and Colt Mccoy?

Yes.

Having both McCoy and Cousins is pointless.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Yes.

Having both McCoy and Cousins is pointless.

 

Having them both is not pointless. Have some kind of open competition to determine which QB gets to lead a 6-10 team is pointless. Like I don't even know what the dream is for Cousins at this point - a poor man's Kyle Orton?

 

He seems like a poor man's Kyle Orton to me. I don't want a quarterback competition with a poor man's Kyle Orton.

[abdcskins]

Having them both is not pointless. Have some kind of open competition to determine which QB gets to lead a 6-10 team is pointless. Like I don't even know what the dream is for Cousins at this point - a poor man's Kyle Orton?

He seems like a poor man's Kyle Orton to me. I don't want a quarterback competition with a poor man's Kyle Orton.

I don't really know either. All I know is that whatever trade value Cousins had is gone. If we never intended on giving him a real chance at starting - and were going to stick with RG3 no matter what, then it was pointless to keep him around. Particularly when McCoy is basically the same QB.

I do realize Cousins had his, "chance," although I saw it more as masquerade.

[Rodriggo]

Regarding Kirk...

 

Let me know when he stops; saying "it's Robert's team", throwing 3 picks a game, and losing every game he starts.

 

You Kirk boys better be asking Santa for a heart and a new pair for him this Christmas b/c imperfect, non-pocket knowing ol Robert is gonna bury his ******* *** in camp for the fourth time come 2015.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't really know either. All I know is that whatever trade value Cousins had is gone. If we never intended on giving him a real chance at starting - and were going to stick with RG3 no matter what, then it was pointless to keep him around. Particularly when McCoy is basically the same QB.

I do realize Cousins had his, "chance," although I saw it more as masquerade.

 

I think Cousins is okay. But - for whatever reason - Redskins' fans keep players in the "young developmental guy" category until they are 50. I think there are still guys on this board waiting for the light to go on for Robert McCune.

 

Cousins is going to be 27 on opening day next year. He was a fifth year senior when he was drafted. He's older than Russell Wilson.

 

A dude that age going into his fourth year in the NFL....how much more is there to learn about him? How much better can he get?

 

I just see us "keeping the book open on him" until he is 36. And then there will be a thread, "Isn't it time to give Kirk Cousins a chance with this offense?"

[darrelgreenie]

^^^^^I can't see Griffin outplaying Cousins in this offense with this staff.

If the staff returns unchanged the "open competition" would be a charade.

[Rodriggo]

^^^^^I can't see Griffin outplaying Cousins in this offense with this staff.

If the staff returns unchanged the "open competition" would be a charade.

 

No pressure, no diamonds.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

^^^^^I can't see Griffin outplaying Cousins in this offense with this staff.

If the staff returns unchanged the "open competition" would be a charade.

 

If Griffin can't beat out Cousins, you let Griffin go. And you find someone else to play the position. Seriously. Just cut bait with everyone and start again.

 

I'm not anti-Cousins.  I'm anti "The best option we have at QB going forward is Cousins."

 

if you settle on Cousins, you are saying, "7-9 is our ceiling and that's fine with me." At that point, bring in anyone - Cutler, Vick, 50 year old Brett Favre - and roll the dice. I know that Cutler has the talent to lead a team to 10 wins.

[darrelgreenie]

....No pressure, no diamonds.

Its not about that.

It's about a HC that has made it clear that Griffin isn't his guy. Griffin needs development to catch up to Cousins. You think Gruden is gonna be that guy?

[Rodriggo]

Its not about that.

It's about a HC that has made it clear that Griffin isn't his guy.

 

Believe what you want. Too much hearsay for me. I'll wait to see what happens this offseason.

[skins/psu1981]

Regarding Kirk...

 

Let me know when he stops; saying "it's Robert's team", throwing 3 picks a game, and losing every game he starts.

 

You Kirk boys better be asking Santa for a heart and a new pair for him this Christmas b/c imperfect, non-pocket knowing ol Robert is gonna bury his ******* *** in camp for the fourth time come 2015.

Yawn!

 

May the best QB win the job. I have a feeling that the off season is going to be very kind to KC

[darrelgreenie]

....if you settle on Cousins, you are saying, "7-9 is our ceiling and that's fine with me." At that point, bring in anyone - Cutler, Vick, 50 year old Brett Favre - and roll the dice. I know that Cutler has the talent to lead a team to 10 wins.

No. If you go with Kirk he's the QB for right now that the coach likes and can execute the offense as the HC likes.

You ride with Kirk and hopefully build the team around him while developing another QB (Mannion) or waiting to sign a ready to win FA QB once the team is ready to compete.

Best case is Kirk develops into a QB we can be competive with if not then hes a place holder that keeps us from delving into the QB wasteland and using resources that should go towards building the team to address QB.

Lets not dig a hole just to fill it.

...Believe what you want. Too much hearsay for me. I'll wait to see what happens this offseason.

Dont get your hopes up.

And dont burry your head in the sand. Have you listened to a Jay Gruden press conference this year? Have you read any of the numerous quoted articles from Gruden? Have you read the as yet unrefuted Jason Ried article?

[Rodriggo]

And dont burry your head in the sand.

 

Bury my head? Lol. The one QB that went bye-bye this season (WHILE HEALTHY) of the three was Kirk, you're future franchise QB, good luck with those hopes.

 

I'm trying not to give too much credence to news articles with regards to this franchise. May the best QB win and I hope Kirk all the best on the Jets.

[Alexa]

Griffin has played 5 games so far? In those 5 he's had one so so game against Minnesota. The rest of his play isn't good.  The offense simply doesn't put any points on the board when he plays. Some of it's on him, some isn't. Gruden has seen him now since the spring, numerous practices, pre season games and regular games. I think he knows QB's pretty well. Deep down he knows Griffin isn't a real good QB right now and may never be one. If it were his choice, I'd be willing to bet he'd cut Griffin tomorrow.

 

I think with Kirk, Gruden feels his mistakes might be more correctable over Griffin's. I'm just not sure Kirk is the kind of guy that can be a bad ass field general. For one he seems like he's too nice a guy. Also, for a guy that played major college ball, where the pressure is high, he sure looked mentally weak when he was struggling. But a lot of QB's have gone through it and I do hope he gets a chance next year to compete for the job.  But when Kirk is on, he's been as good as anyone. I've never seen Griffin make the passes Kirk does when Kirk is on. Meaning, drop back, plant and throw a guy open or into a tight window.

 

McCoy to me is the perfect back-up QB but Gruden views him as a starter. A little confused by that but again, he sees these guys up close and we don't. But w/ McCoy, he just doesn't have the arm to push the ball downfield and into tight windows. I think you can get by with him for a few games.

 

We may not have a 16 game starter on the team right now. It will be interesting to see what direction we go in during the off season. But I don't think all three will be on the team next year. I think two will be here and they'll end up drafting a QB in the mid rounds.

[darrelgreenie]

Bury my head? Lol. The one QB that went bye-bye this season (WHILE HEALTHY) of the three was Kirk, you're future franchise QB, good luck with those hopes.

I'm trying not to give too much credence to news articles with regards to this franchise. May the best QB win and I hope Kirk all the best on the Jets.

Take a breath and read my post.

I BELIEVE in Griffin but Im also not blind or deaf.

Kirk is further along then Griffin as a rhythm drop back passer and to bridge that gap Griffin is going to need a coach that is patient and believes in him. Maybe you believe that Jay backs Griffin 100% and is willing to develop him. But nothing Jay has said or done supports this.

[Alexa]

If Griffin can't beat out Cousins, you let Griffin go. And you find someone else to play the position. Seriously. Just cut bait with everyone and start again.

 

I'm not anti-Cousins.  I'm anti "The best option we have at QB going forward is Cousins."

 

if you settle on Cousins, you are saying, "7-9 is our ceiling and that's fine with me." At that point, bring in anyone - Cutler, Vick, 50 year old Brett Favre - and roll the dice. I know that Cutler has the talent to lead a team to 10 wins.

You don't bring in those guys because we already know who those QB's are. Kirk has only 9 starts.  Plus Cutler is under contract and will probably end up back in Chicago.

Take a breath and read my post.

I BELIEVE in Griffin but Im also not blind or deaf.

Kirk is further along then Griffin as a rhythm drop back passer and to bridge that gap Griffin is going to need a coach that is patient and believes in him. Maybe you believe that Jay backs Griffin 100% and is willing to develop him. But nothing Jay has said or done supports this.

My question is why would a coach want to be patient with someone who's going into his 4th year and still struggles with dropback passing? I mean what's the pay off with Griffin at this point? He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, the person he wanted to compare himself to. To me he's looking more and more like Michael Vick, and there's nothing wrong with that. Vick's still in the NFL after all these years.

[Rodriggo]

Take a breath and read my post.

 

Why does Griffin continue to start over Kirk? Gruden's doing correct?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

No. If you go with Kirk he's the QB for right now that the coach likes and can execute the offense as the HC likes.

 

 

Then fire the coach. I don't know if the answer is Griffin. It's probably not Griffin. I know the anwer is not Cousins or McCoy. If Gruden has decided that Cousins is better than Griffin, my suggestion is cut them both.

You don't bring in those guys because we already know who those QB's are. Kirk has only 9 starts.  Plus Cutler is under contract and will probably end up back in Chicago.

 

 

Cousins is 27 and has been in the league for three years. And he came in the league as a fifth year senior. We know who the hell Cousins is.

 

What is this great mystery of Kirk Cousins? He's a mediocre backup.

 

To accept anything else is to deny what we've seen and accept the fact that Shanahan saw something magical three drafts ago and is a still ready to pull a fast one on the league. We would have to accept the fact that Shanahan was wrong about everything during his time here, but really really right about that.

[bradboyd80]

My question is why would a coach want to be patient with someone who's going into his 4th year and still struggles with dropback passing? I mean what's the pay off with Griffin at this point? He's never going to be Aaron Rodgers, the person he wanted to compare himself to. To me he's looking more and more like Michael Vick, and there's nothing wrong with that. Vick's still in the NFL after all these years.

His skill set still allows him to reach an elite level.  I know people hate the reference, but go back and watch his 2012 games.  Say what you want about the offense (gimmick, one-read, easy to execute, etc).  It still takes the proper read, accuracy and a strong arm to make the throws he made that year.  Add his running ability to that, and you have the potential for a true game-changer at the most important position on the field.  Cousins might be the better pure passing QB right now, but Griffin's "ceiling" is much higher if groomed properly (which it appears Gruden just isn't willing to do).  

[SkinsFTW]

Why does Griffin continue to start over Kirk? Gruden's doing correct?

Nope, Gruden has been told he might keep his job but just start the guy we spent almost 1/2 a decades worth of high draft picks on.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

His skill set still allows him to reach an elite level.  I know people hate the reference, but go back and watch his 2012 games.  Say what you want about the offense (gimmick, one-read, easy to execute, etc).  It still takes the proper read, accuracy and a strong arm to make the throws he made that year.  Add his running ability to that, and you have the potential for a true game-changer at the most important position on the field.  Cousins might be the better pure passing QB right now, but Griffin's "ceiling" is much higher if groomed properly (which it appears Gruden just isn't willing to do).  

 

I'm not an RGIII guy or a Cousins guy. They could cut them both and I won't cry.

 

But when comparing the two, I have RGIII's 2012 season and everything Cousins has ever done. To be honest, I'm not sure where the evidence is that Cousins is the better pure passing QB. I think they both kind of suck at this particular moment.

 

Here is my question about Cousins in a vacuum: What are we hanging our hopes on? Is there something he has done in his NFL career that makes people say, "Ah.....if he could just do that consistently, we would have something...."

[SkinsFTW]

His skill set still allows him to reach an elite level.  I know people hate the reference, but go back and watch his 2012 games.  Say what you want about the offense (gimmick, one-read, easy to execute, etc).  It still takes the proper read, accuracy and a strong arm to make the throws he made that year.  Add his running ability to that, and you have the potential for a true game-changer at the most important position on the field.

 

Almost every Redskins fan wanted Shanny fired. This is the product of that. RG3 isn't a good QB and probably wouldn't last 1/2 a season now in that 2012 offense.