CNN: Protests play out in streets after teen is fatally shot by police

[visionary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/13/us/ferguson-police-cite-safety-risk-in-decision-not-to-name-officer-in-shooting.html#

Police Cite Threats in Decision Not to Name Officer in Missouri Shooting

 

The chief of police here said Tuesday that he had reconsidered his decision to release the name of the police officer involved in the fatal shooting of an unarmed African-American teenager and would not do so because of concerns about the officer’s safety.

 

The Ferguson Police Department had said it would release the officer’s name by noon on Tuesday, but then reversed itself after it said that threats had been made on social media against the officer and the city’s police.

 

“The value of releasing the name is far outweighed by the risk of harm to the officer and his family,” the Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said Tuesday in announcing a decision that was quickly criticized. The officer has been placed on administrative leave.

 

The chief’s change of heart came amid another day of protests in the St. Louis suburbs where the teenager, Michael Brown Jr., 18, was shot several times Saturday by an officer as he and a friend walked from a convenience store. The circumstances of the shooting remain in dispute. The Ferguson police say Mr. Brown had hit the officer and tried to steal his gun; Mr. Brown’s family and friends deny that.

 

The protests against the local police have at times turned violent — stores have been looted and at least one business has been set on fire. The police have made more than 40 arrests during the past two nights and fired tear gas and rubber bullets at demonstrators.

 

On Tuesday, during a peaceful protest march to the St. Louis County prosecutor’s office in Clayton, Mo., the county seat of St. Louis County, demonstrators chanted “Don’t shoot!” and raised their hands over their heads in a pose that has been adopted by protesters who say Mr. Brown was shot while in a similar position.

 

President Obama, in his first comments about the shooting, called the death of Mr. Brown heartbreaking but urged residents to remain calm. “I know the events of the past few days have prompted strong passions,” the president said in statement Tuesday, “but as details unfold, I urge everyone in Ferguson, Mo., and across the country, to remember this young man through reflection and understanding.”

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

An interview with the alledged victim's friend if anyone's interested.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQeni0qt8Vo

[twa]

I understand there has been some looting and gunfire, and I think police have to protect property and ensure public safety, but the use of this much police force to break up protests bothers me. 

 

Smells like tyranny.

 

smells more like anarchy from here, both the police and Justice dept are looking at the facts of the case.

 

Waiting for facts does require patience 

[Larry]

I understand there has been some looting and gunfire, and I think police have to protect property and ensure public safety, but the use of this much police force to break up protests bothers me.

Smells like tyranny.

I don't like it, either.

BUT, when you've had riots, then the cops legitimately HAVE to show up, PREPARED for a riot.

Because every protest might become one. In less than a minute.

[s0crates]

I don't like it, either.

BUT, when you've had riots, then the cops legitimately HAVE to show up, PREPARED for a riot.

Because every protest might become one. In less than a minute.

Rioting and protesting aren't identical.

People have right to protest, but I think we'll agree they don't have a right to riot. My concern is they'll be denied the former in the name of preventing the latter.

[Larry]

Rioting and protesting aren't identical.

People have right to protest, but I think we'll agree they don't have a right to riot. My concern is they'll be denied the former in the name of preventing the latter.

I'm well aware they aren't the same.

My point is that one can turn into the other. In the blink of an eye.

Therefore, for reasons of self preservation, the cops have to treat every protest as a POTENTIAL riot.

[Thinking Skins]

Rodney King got his ass beat on camera, and those cops got off. I dont think mounting a camera would solve anything.

 

Not to mention Frutvale Station

[s0crates]

I'm well aware they aren't the same.

My point is that one can turn into the other. In the blink of an eye.

Therefore, for reasons of self preservation, the cops have to treat every protest as a POTENTIAL riot.

Does that entail treating every protestor as a rioter? I ask because that seems to be happening here.

I'm seeing reports they're using wooden bullets and tear gas on protesters (not looters). I think it's too much.

[s0crates]

smells more like anarchy from here, both the police and Justice dept are looking at the facts of the case.

Waiting for facts does require patience

I guess smell is subjective.

I would rather see the officer prosecuted, and let the court decide the facts.

[twa]

I guess smell is subjective.

I would rather see the officer prosecuted, and let the court decide the facts.

 

Is the court supposed to pull the facts out of thin air?

[btfoom]

I'm well aware they aren't the same.

My point is that one can turn into the other. In the blink of an eye.

Therefore, for reasons of self preservation, the cops have to treat every protest as a POTENTIAL riot.

 

Exactly, and the main reason is that in such a large (and emotionally charged) crowd, all it takes is a few folks trying to cause trouble to turn something peaceful into violence.

 

Unfortunately, "mob mentality" is a proven issue where normally civil people do things that the normally wouldn't do, just because others around them are doing it and they are usually not in their normal frame of mind.

 

One great example is the picture of the car above, with several men standing on it.  I doubt these guys came out with the thought "I'm going to jump on somebody's car", but once one guy does it, others want the same attention and do it as well.  If the police aren't ready to handle this type of situation (and in this instance, they clearly weren't), think how quickly it could have spiraled out of control if the people in the car got out and confronted those on their car (especially if one party had a gun).

 

 

I guess smell is subjective.

I would rather see the officer prosecuted, and let the court decide the facts.

 

but that's not how it works in our country.  First, a person is accused of a crime, then there is an investigation and if there is probable cause, that person is arrested.  The judicial system then determines if there is enough evidence for charges, and then someone is taken to court.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of times where someone 'smelled wrong', but that doesn't mean the cops arrest and prosecute him/her without due process.  There are widely conflicting reports here, and they need to be sorted before anyone gets charged, much less prosecuted.

[rictus58]

The same people who are protesting are not the same people who are looting. Let's not lump everyone in the same category based on their race. 

Then the same should be done when it comes to the police. Just because one is bad doesn't mean they all are. But people have no problem grouping them together all the time.

[Larry]

Then the same should be done when it comes to the police. Just because one is bad doesn't mean they all are. But people have no problem grouping them together all the time.

 

I hear that claim made a lot.  But I'm not sure it's actually true. 

 

As evidence, I'll point at the Rodney King video. 

 

Now, as I understand it, in that video, we have more than a dozen police officers, from at least two different police departments.  (LAPD and CHP). 

 

When I watch that video, there's one scene that really jumps out at me. 

 

Rodney King is paying on the ground.  Face down, spread, not moving. 

 

And one police officer (I call him Officer Nightstick) steps forward.  Stands between King's legs.  Takes his night stick in two hands, like a baseball bat.  Holds it fully extended over his head.  And brings it down on the back of King's right knee. 

 

Three times. 

 

He then takes a few steps to the side.  And does the same thing to King's left knee.  Three times.  (Along about the second blow, to the second knee, King begins moving.  Whether rolling in pain, trying to escape the pain, or trying to get up, I can't tell.) 

 

Now, as far as I'm concerned, Officer Nightstick just committed multiple felonies.  He assaulted someone who was laying, unmoving, on the ground.  I'm not a lawyer, but that sure looks like assault, to me.  I don't know if it's considered "with a lethal weapon". 

 

This attack must have taken 20 seconds or so. 

 

It was committed in front of a dozen, randomly-selected police officers, from two different police departments. 

 

Officer Nightstick made no effort to conceal his crime.  He knew full well that he was committing multiple felonies, in frond of a dozen police officers, and he was not worried in the least that he would face any consequences whatsoever for his crime. 

 

He knew that not one officer would do a thing to stop him.  He knew that not one officer would so much as file a complaint about it.  He knew that every single one of them, in his written report, would testify, under oath, that either no such attack occurred, or that it was justified. 

 

So, when people inform me that I don;t know how cops think, or understand their jobs, or whatever.  That I'm not qualified to pass judgement on an entire group of thousands of people, my response is . . . .

 

They're right.  I don't know thousands of police officers will enough to testify with authority as to their morality. 

 

But Officer Nightstick, LAPD officer, he knows hundreds of police officers.  Very, very, well.  And he thinks that a police officer can commit a felony, in front of a dozen police officers, from multiple police departments, and be guaranteed that not one single one of them will follow the law. 

 

In fact, he feels so confident of his opinion of the honesty of police officers, that he was willing to risk his career, and his life, on his theory.  (In fact, I'm willing to bet that the thought that somebody might prosecute him for this crime never even entered his mind.)

 

And, his theory was correct.  Every single one of them did stand there and do nothing, when he did it.  And every single one of them did, later, in writing, cover for him. 

 

----------

 

I'll be a lot more inclined to believe that police brutality is something that only a tiny fraction of cops tolerate, when I start reading more stories about a cop assaulting someone, and his partner arrests him, and testifies against him at his felony trial. 

[Kilmer17]

I guess smell is subjective.

I would rather see the officer prosecuted, and let the court decide the facts.

Would you like to use this standard for everyone?

 

Meaning, can cops just arrest anyone they want, anytime they want and let the court decide the facts?

 

I havent seen anything specific to this case to make me think that the authorities are investigating properly and plan on bringing charges if warranted.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

An interview with the alledged victim's friend if anyone's interested.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQeni0qt8Vo

Well I'm almost 100% sure that the cop didn't push his door open, get hit with it from the ricochet, and choke this kid out before he shot him. Sorry. Though I am waiting for data from the investigation.

[rictus58]

I hear that claim made a lot.  But I'm not sure it's actually true. 

 

 

 

so could I use the widespread footage of These riots....or Watts...or south Central to lump a race together?

Human nature is such that we will stick up for people we identify with. those who are in our circle of whatever...Right or wrong, that's what people do.

[Gamebreaker]

Is the court supposed to pull the facts out of thin air?

 

How long does it take to determine the facts here? What is the procedure? 

 

One great example is the picture of the car above, with several men standing on it.  I doubt these guys came out with the thought "I'm going to jump on somebody's car", but once one guy does it, others want the same attention and do it as well.  If the police aren't ready to handle this type of situation (and in this instance, they clearly weren't), think how quickly it could have spiraled out of control if the people in the car got out and confronted those on their car (especially if one party had a gun).

 

 

Well, there was no one inside that car they were standing on. So we don't know if it was the vehicle one of the men standing on top of the car or not. 

[Larry]

so could I use the widespread footage of These riots....or Watts...or south Central to lump a race together?

Human nature is such that we will stick up for people we identify with. those who are in our circle of whatever...Right or wrong, that's what people do.

 

Looks to me like you just answered your own question. 

[Gamebreaker]

Then the same should be done when it comes to the police. Just because one is bad doesn't mean they all are. But people have no problem grouping them together all the time.

 

I never said they are all bad, but too many times the ones that are bad get away with abusing their authority. That needs to end, now. 

Well I'm almost 100% sure that the cop didn't push his door open, get hit with it from the ricochet, and choke this kid out before he shot him. Sorry. Though I am waiting for data from the investigation.

 

What makes you so sure of something you were not present to witness? 

[twa]

How long does it take to determine the facts here? What is the procedure? 

 

 

 

as long as it takes, certainly longer than it takes for protests and looting obviously.

 

the procedure is taking a report and gathering testimony from witnesses, gathering forensic evidence and then putting it in the DA's hands to refer to a grand jury or file charges as the case may be.

naturally the cop is assigned to a desk job or suspended till the results come out(suspended I believe in this.

[Gamebreaker]

as long as it takes, certainly longer than it takes for protests and looting obviously.

 

the procedure is taking a report and gathering testimony from witnesses, gathering forensic evidence and then putting it in the DA's hands to refer to a grand jury or file charges as the case may be.

naturally the cop is assigned to a desk job or suspended till the results come out(suspended I believe in this.

 

And yet, the reporter who interviewed the witness we saw in the video stated on twitter that the police had yet to interview him at that point. IMO, it looks like they aren't exactly motivated to find the truth. 

[btfoom]

How long does it take to determine the facts here? What is the procedure? 

 

Well, there was no one inside that car they were standing on. So we don't know if it was the vehicle one of the men standing on top of the car or not. 

 

Sure looks to me like there is someone in the driver seat, wearing a shirt with white short sleeves.

 

I'm almost sure it was an extension of the rest of the shots in the video, with cars trying to get through a street that had been literally taken over by 'protesters'.

[twa]

And yet, the reporter who interviewed the witness we saw in the video stated on twitter that the police had yet to interview him at that point. IMO, it looks like they aren't exactly motivated to find the truth. 

 

has he contacted the police after admittedly fleeing the scene? (at THAT point leaves out a lot)

 

Should they do a neighborhood sweep for likely accomplices?

 

interviews have a funny way of differing from sworn testimony ime

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

has he contacted the police after admittedly fleeing the scene? (at THAT point leaves out a lot)

 

Should they do a neighborhood sweep for likely accomplices?

 

interviews have a funny way of differing from sworn testimony ime

Yes he did. He and his lawyer.

 

According to them, the authorities said they were following other leads and would get back to them.

 

The authorities also made a comment about how it was pointless to interview the guy since he fled the scene.

 

All according to Johnson and his lawyer.

[twa]

you have a timeline?