I want to sue the republican party for willful denial of scientific evidence about climate change.

[PeterMP]

Would not change is a losing game(it always changes,perhaps to our benefit), but heat sinks and heat leaving the atmosphere in manners/degree not accounted for in most models is a start.

 

 http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25801-huge-whirlpools-in-the-ocean-are-driving-the-weather.html#.U9xTAPldXiU

 

co2 being less of a factor than some suggest is another

 

So heating up the ocean isn't climate change?

 

I mean right, your posting that huge eddies form in the ocean and distribute heat through the system, and then trying to claim that heating that water up won't affect the climate.

 

How does that make any sense?

 

How is that a mechanism?

 

CO2 absorbs heat.  It reflects energy that would have escaped to space back to the Earth.  More CO2 means more of that reflected heat.

 

That's a mechanism.

 

You've got well if we assume X, Y, and Z, then maybe A will (or won't happen).

 

Do you really not see the difference?

 

(I'll point out in terms advantage/disadvantage, I've said here before, that I think long term it really is probably a coin flip sort of situation as to whether or not climate change is good for humans, but short term human society is an evolved thing and in the short term changes in the environment do not tend to benefit the currently best evolved entity (e.g. the USA in the current system) so I suspect short term, especially if we continue to do nothing at all, there will be a substantial cost to us.)

[twa]

I embrace climate change, you are welcome to another ice age if ya wish though.

 

I'd point out the models are having problems which illustrate some re-calibration is in order , but it would be a waste of time

 

care to explain how you know the oceans are heating when they were clueless about the amount in the meddies?.....what is your control?

[PeterMP]

I embrace climate change, you are welcome to another ice age if ya wish though.

 

I'd point out the models are having problems which illustrate some re-calibration is in order , but it would be a waste of time

 

care to explain how you know the oceans are heating when they were clueless about the amount in the meddies?.....what is your control?

 

The surface is heating.  That would seem to be a start.

 

And I know that I expect CO2 to increase the heat into the system.

 

Do you have some mechanism by which some of that heat wouldn't be transferred to the oceans?

 

As far as I know there is no magic barrier between the atmosphere and the oceans that prevents the transfer of heat.

 

Do you know of one?

 

There is a lot of good basic thermodynamic studies about heat transfer between water based solutions and the surrounding environment, and I don't know a single one that says it wont' happen.

 

And the same thing with respect to layers of the ocean.

 

Is there a magic barrier between at the meddies that protect them from being heated?

 

Because that would be big news.

Edited August 2, 2014 by PeterMP

[s0crates]

I'm a little worried about coastal cities being under water myself.

Climate change or not, you'd think we should all be a little more concerned about things like biodiversity, soil erosion, air pollution, and loss of fresh water.

[Dan T.]

problem comes after that, most agree there ....then we move on to man caused and how and the **** blows up.

and of course people that think they can tell you the science is settled or impose their opinions on another.

you know like the genius wanting to sue

I wonder where he got the idea of filing a lawsuit for purely political reasons... Edited August 2, 2014 by Dan T.

[twa]

I'm a little worried about coastal cities being under water myself.

Climate change or not, you'd think we should all be a little more concerned about things like biodiversity, soil erosion, air pollution, and loss of fresh water.

 

Are you hoping to keep coastal areas static despite the history of change?

 

start desalination in earnest and ya nibble at two problems listed

 

 

 

 

So heating up the ocean isn't climate change?

 

 

Why do you keep inferring I don't think the climate changes?

 

can you tell me how much of a reduction in human caused co2 would be needed to change the dynamic you allege?

[twa]

I wonder where he got the idea of filing a lawsuit for purely political reasons...

 

If you are referring to suing O, that is a interesting situation......the critical difference it is over constitutional limits(might even be interesting from a legal standpoint)

 

somehow I don't see any grounds for MM's unless he rewrites the constitution.

 

now if ya are saying he is just playing partisan games ..........   

[s0crates]

Are you hoping to keep coastal areas static despite the history of change?

I'm hoping to prevent disasters in large population centers like New York and L.A. as much as it is within our power to do so.

Of course there are some dangers we can't prevent, but that is no excuse for ignoring the ones we can.

start desalination in earnest and ya nibble at two problems listed

I'm all for making that investment, among others.

[twa]

I'm hoping to prevent disasters in large population centers like New York and L.A. as much as it is within our power to do so.

Of course there are some dangers we can't prevent, but that is no excuse for ignoring the ones we can.

 

 

the more likely disasters there are earthquakes and plate movement.....kinda like New Orleans sinking in silt,there ain't no stopping it

 

adapt or die

[PeterMP]

Why do you keep inferring I don't think the climate changes?

 

can you tell me how much of a reduction in human caused co2 would be needed to change the dynamic you allege?

 

Given the amount of CO2 we've already put into the atmosphere, I don't suspect there will be a line in the sand.  I don't suspect there will be a movie like cataclysmic event at some level of CO2.

 

I suspect this is like asking how much lead is it safe for you kid to eat in the context of affecting their IQ (not to the point that they'd actually become really ill).

 

And the answer is the less the better (or in the context of human caused CO2 reduction the more the better).

 

And of course you can sub reduction of CO2 with (increased) mitigation efforts.

 

What adaptions do you support?

 

How should those adaptions be supported?

 

Do you know any members  of the GOP that support a single mitigation effort?

the more likely disasters there are earthquakes and plate movement.....kinda like New Orleans sinking in silt,there ain't no stopping it

 

adapt or die

 

Why is an earthquake a more likely disaster than a large hurricane?

 

But since we are discussing the topic:

 

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/could_a_changing_climate_set_off_volcanoes_and_quakes/2525/

 

"Geological disasters might influence climate, for instance when volcanic debris blots out the sun. But climate cannot disrupt geology. Right? Well, actually no, says a British geologist Bill McGuire, in a troubling new book,Waking The Giant: How a Changing Climate Triggers Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Volcanoes."

[MEANDWARF]

And now for something hypocritical. Harry Reid showing up at a clean air summit in a SUV.

I know it is an oldie, but to me a goodie. hehehe

 

http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/09/15/harry-reid-shows-up-at-a-clean-energy-summit-in-a-fleet-of-suvs/

Edited August 2, 2014 by MEANDWARF

[twa]

Given the amount of CO2 we've already put into the atmosphere, I don't suspect there will be a line in the sand.  I don't suspect there will be a movie like cataclysmic event at some level of CO2.

 

I suspect this is like asking how much lead is it safe for you kid to eat in the context of affecting their IQ (not to the point that they'd actually become really ill).

 

And the answer is the less the better (or in the context of human caused CO2 reduction the more the better).

 

And of course you can sub reduction of CO2 with (increased) mitigation efforts.

 

What adaptions do you support?

 

How should those adaptions be supported?

 

Do you know any members  of the GOP that support a single mitigation effort?

 

Why is an earthquake a more likely disaster than a large hurricane?

 

But since we are discussing the topic:

 

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/could_a_changing_climate_set_off_volcanoes_and_quakes/2525/

 

"Geological disasters might influence climate, for instance when volcanic debris blots out the sun. But climate cannot disrupt geology. Right? Well, actually no, says a British geologist Bill McGuire, in a troubling new book,Waking The Giant: How a Changing Climate Triggers Earthquakes, Tsunamis and Volcanoes."

 

 

I did not ask for a tipping point, I asked what reduction of human generated co2 would make a real impact.

Give me that and we can then address costs and methodology

 

if ya can give me neither the science is lacking

 

that you use lead as a comparison is laughable and the reasons why obvious.

 

I know a lot of GOP that support capture and injection of co2 and obviously we support alt energy sources here in Texas since we get more from it than the eco conscious Germans we sell firewood to 

[Mad Mike]

A U.S. senator (this week in fact)

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/29/gop_senator_blocks_resolution_acknowledging_that_climate_change_is_happening/

 

 

 

Sen. James M. Inhofe: Campaign Finance/Money - Top Donors - Senator 2014 | OpenSecrets

 

 

 

 

Top 20 Contributors to Campaign Cmte and Leadership PAC

2 Koch Industries   $45,200 $5,200 $40,000

[Mad Mike]

And now for something hypocritical. Harry Reid showing up at a clean air summit in a SUV.

I know it is an oldie, but to me a goodie. hehehe

 

http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/09/15/harry-reid-shows-up-at-a-clean-energy-summit-in-a-fleet-of-suvs/

 

 

This is your argument? That Ried didn't show up in a fleet of prius's for his stalf and security detail? Did you actually read the drivel you posted?

 

Despite what the blithering fool who wrote the story claims. No one is saying you cant drive SUVs. We are saying lets make them more efficient. No one has been told they cant cool their home. The entire article is mind numbingly stupid.

 

Oh and about those dollar panels referenced.... Obama adds solar panels to White House, pressing his support for green energy | Fox News

[NoCalMike]

When it comes to War and international conflict, I hear "we have to lead the way"  "Can't lead from behind" an awful lot.

 

When it comes to attacking climate change, I hear "What good is it if other countries aren't on board" an awful lot.

 

Maybe the USA being the country with the most resources should be leading this revolution.  Maybe it could lead to new industry, new products to export.  Maybe if other industrialized countries see us making significant changes that are working, they will hop on board and want to be a part of the new generation.

[TradeTheBeal!]

And now for something hypocritical. Harry Reid showing up at a clean air summit in a SUV.

I know it is an oldie, but to me a goodie. hehehe

 

http://americaswatchtower.com/2010/09/15/harry-reid-shows-up-at-a-clean-energy-summit-in-a-fleet-of-suvs/

 

What's wrong with SUVs?

Edited August 2, 2014 by mboyd784

[Mad Mike]

And how's this for Irony....

 

Delaware Oil Refinery's Sudden Worrying About Sea Level Rise Goes Viral! | Delaware Way

 

Climate Change Is So Bad Even Oil Companies Are Bracing for it Now

[twa]

When it comes to War and international conflict, I hear "we have to lead the way"  "Can't lead from behind" an awful lot.

 

When it comes to attacking climate change, I hear "What good is it if other countries aren't on board" an awful lot.

 

Maybe the USA being the country with the most resources should be leading this revolution.  Maybe it could lead to new industry, new products to export.  Maybe if other industrialized countries see us making significant changes that are working, they will hop on board and want to be a part of the new generation.

 

 

we are leading the way where I'm from 

 

the natural gas boom alone will do more to reduce pollution than most, not to mention all the other efforts

 

we just fight differently

[NoCalMike]

And how's this for Irony....

 

Delaware Oil Refinery's Sudden Worrying About Sea Level Rise Goes Viral! | Delaware Way

 

Climate Change Is So Bad Even Oil Companies Are Bracing for it Now

 

Oh I'm sure behind the scenes Oil and other fossil fuel companies are further along in the transition then we think, but I also think they will sit on and stifle the new resources until they've made every last penny they can off their current product.

[twa]

And how's this for Irony....

 

Delaware Oil Refinery's Sudden Worrying About Sea Level Rise Goes Viral! | Delaware Way

 

Climate Change Is So Bad Even Oil Companies Are Bracing for it Now

 

erosion and subsidence being laid at climate change's feet is some great 'science' 

 

of course the ice sheet that used to cover the northeast melting that is causing the land to sink is climate change ....kinda hard to blame that on big oil ain't it ? 

[Mad Mike]

Why Climate Deniers Have No Scientific Credibility - In One Pie Chart | DeSmogBlog

 

[The Sisko]

Are you hoping to keep coastal areas static despite the history of change?

 

start desalination in earnest and ya nibble at two problems listed

Yeah, that's a good idea. Increase the salinity of the oceans while the additional CO2 increases the acidity. Nah, that won't affect people at all. I mean, it's not like we're actually getting food from the oceans or anything. Or to relate it to what the GOP always wants to say is their primary motivation, the economy/jobs wouldn't be affected.

 

Of course your reaction is pretty much in line with your state where industrial accidents that anyone with half a brain would call criminal negligence are written off as acts of god. I imagine that when we do reach the tipping point with climate change, your types will just sigh and say it was something god did to us.

[Mad Mike]

A little history....

 

Svante Arrhenius - Biographical

 

Svante Arrhenius : Feature Articles

 

And a jr high school level science experiment anyone can perform....

 

 

Meanwhile...

 

Carbon-dioxide levels are at their highest point in at least 800,000 years - The Washington Post

[twa]

Yeah, that's a good idea. Increase the salinity of the oceans while the additional CO2 increases the acidity. Nah, that won't affect people at all. I mean, it's not like we're actually getting food from the oceans or anything. Or to relate it to what the GOP always wants to say is their primary motivation, the economy/jobs wouldn't be affected.

 

Of course your reaction is pretty much in line with your state where industrial accidents that anyone with half a brain would call criminal negligence are written off as acts of god. I imagine that when we do reach the tipping point with climate change, your types will just sigh and say it was something god did to us.

 

 

care to tell me how adding more freshwater to the environment increases salinity (unless ya are stupid enough to dump the condensates into the water) ????

 

utilizing solar or wind adds no co2 other than producing the equipment,you can also use waste heat from other industrial sources(assuming ya idiots haven't killed industry)

A little history....

 

Svante Arrhenius - Biographical

 

Svante Arrhenius : Feature Articles

 

And a jr high school level science experiment anyone can perform....

 

 

 

Meanwhile...

 

Carbon-dioxide levels are at their highest point in at least 800,000 years - The Washington Post

 

we are not in a impervious bubble.....jr high sounds about right

[Larry]

care to tell me how adding more freshwater to the environment increases salinity

you have a device that creates water out of nothing? Wow. You could make a lot of money from that.

 

we are not in a impervious bubble.....

Uh, no, I think that some of us are.