GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Has anyone been following this? It seems tensions are really starting to grow and Militias are slowly starting to show up to help this guy "protect" his ranch and his live stock. This will get real interesting, if any shots are fired, who knows how far the Feds are willing to take it. Showdown on the range: Nevada rancher, feds face off over cattle grazing rightshttp://www.cnn.com/2014/04/10/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/index.html (CNN) -- A 20-year dispute between a Nevada rancher and federal rangers over illegal cattle grazing erupted into an Old West-style showdown on the open range this week, even prompting self-proclaimed members of militia groups from across the country to join the rancher in fighting what they say is U.S. "tyranny." What began as a legal fight between longtime rancher Cliven Bundy and the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has escalated as Bundy kept his cattle on the federal land, and the government has responded by beginning roundups of the livestock. A confrontation teetered on violence Wednesday when Bundy family members and dozens of supporters angrily confronted a group of rangers holding Tasers and barking dogs on leashes near Bunkerville, about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas. Federal officials say a police dog was kicked and officers were assaulted People getting tazed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikered30 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I was wondering when someone was going to open a thread on this. Hope this doesn't turn into a Waco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 How far the Feds will take it: Ruby Ridge, Waco. That's how far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 How far the Feds will take it: Ruby Ridge, Waco. That's how far. the 1st Amendment zone is a complete joke, other than that, does this Bundy guy have anything to argue about? His cattle are not on his property, am I missing something? Why does the BLM have a police force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Those cops were friendly compared to the ones I've seen dealing with protestors in more urban areas. One guy blatantly kicked that police dog and appeared to walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Wow. That's an interesting story. Hard to argue with this... "I love you people. And I love this land, and I love freedom and liberty," Bundy told the crowd. "I know without doubt that our Constitution didn't provide for anything like the federal government owning this land, and so when I pay my grazing fees -- if I owe any grazing fees -- I will sure pay it to the right landlord, and that will be to Clark County, Nevada." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 How far the Feds will take it: Ruby Ridge, Waco. That's how far. I actually got to meet Sarah Weaver in person and hear her story. She did a special with William Shatner about it. Crazy how they just shot her mom like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Does he have a leg to stand on since it is "public land"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Wow. That's an interesting story. Hard to argue with this... Actually seems fairly easy to argue with... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Actually seems fairly easy to argue with... What right do the Feds have to controlling "public land"? I do agree, this is not about "protecting a turtle" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Actually seems fairly easy to argue with... yeah, but it will be interesting to see if it helps move the returning federal land to the states movement. hopefully things don't get out of hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s0crates Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I actually got to meet Sarah Weaver in person and hear her story. She did a special with William Shatner about it. Crazy how they just shot her mom like that.Edit: and her mother was holding a baby in her arms when they shot her. And her brother was shot. And the family dog. Awful stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoodBits Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 What right do the Feds have to controlling "public land"? I do agree, this is not about "protecting a turtle" "Public" meaning owned by the government and available for public use. But not necessarily free public use, right? There are admission fees to public national parks, mostly to pay to maintain them. If his cattle grazing are causing wear and tear to the public lands, should he not have to pay grazing fees to compensate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The Government has property rights too. They can be criticized on the free speach zone though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 The Government has property rights too. They can be criticized on the free speach zone though. that old consent of the governed raises it head for a peek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I absolutely hope things don't get violent, but I have no sympathy for this guy otherwise. He sounds like a selfish, clueless jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Unfortunately, Alex Jones and other whackos will ruin the actual substance of this situation. This has an interview from one of the bundy brothers from inside the ranch.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTHyXJKIhkg "Public" meaning owned by the government and available for public use. But not necessarily free public use, right? There are admission fees to public national parks, mostly to pay to maintain them. If his cattle grazing are causing wear and tear to the public lands, should he not have to pay grazing fees to compensate? There are two ways to view this, his cattle are not actually causing wear and tear, they are providing maintenance that keeps it healthy, maybe the Feds should start paying him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 There are two ways to view this, his cattle are not actually causing wear and tear, they are providing maintenance that keeps it healthy, maybe the Feds should start paying him? You don't get to unilaterally decide what laws you are going to follow. Even if you own cattle and have guns. I actually got to meet Sarah Weaver in person and hear her story. She did a special with William Shatner about it. Crazy how they just shot her mom like that. Did you get to talk to the family of Deputy U.S. Marshal William Francis Degan also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 There are two ways to view this, his cattle are not actually causing wear and tear, they are providing maintenance that keeps it healthy, maybe the Feds should start paying him? Well, in that case, then he should withdraw is cattle until the federal government begs him to bring them back. This is like walking into a house that is cluttered and taking the stuff you want and claiming you are helping them control their clutter. Or a grocery store and taking the stuff that is going to expire relatively soon and claiming you are helping them by controlling their disposal costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Well, in that case, then he should withdraw is cattle until the federal government begs him to bring them back. This is like walking into a house that is cluttered and taking the stuff you want and claiming you are helping them control their clutter. Or a grocery store and taking the stuff that is going to expire relatively soon and claiming you are helping them by controlling their disposal costs. Except, his family was using the land for grazing cattle long before the Feds changed the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Except, his family was using the land for grazing cattle long before the Feds changed the rules. Okay, That's like going into a grocery store and leaving the same amount of money that you would have 20 years ago for the same products. It is their stuff. They get to change the rules if the want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Except, his family was using the land for grazing cattle long before the Feds changed the rules. Laws change. We deal with them. If you think you have a good argument about your property rights, you take your case to the courts. Often you win. Or you reach a compromise. Or you can hole up in a shack, scream about oppression and point guns at everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I admire the restraint showed by the Federal rangers in that clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted April 11, 2014 Author Share Posted April 11, 2014 Laws change. We deal with them. If you think you have a good argument about your property rights, you take your case to the courts. Often you win. Or you reach a compromise. Or you can hole up in a shack, scream about oppression and point guns at everyone. Apparantly, Bundy thinks he has a great argument, so do his supporters. I admire the restraint showed by the Federal rangers in that clip. Bureau of Land Management Police? Who knew, does every Fed Agency have special forces now? What about the 1st Amendment Zone? Do people actually think this is okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 Except, his family was using the land for grazing cattle long before the Feds changed the rules. Again the Federal Government has property rights too. And btw it looks like Clive unilaterally changed the rules first - he stopped paying the government fee years ago now the government is expelling/seizing his cattle (for another reason - but heck should have siezed them years ago for back rent). The free speach zone should and has been criticized (Example the Nevada Governor did so but didn't really object to the siezing fo the cattle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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